No, you miss the point.
Distinctions are important.
It matters hugely, recognizing the difference between violent rape and an uninvited shoulder rub, just as it matters making the distinction between a spanking and attempted murder....not just legally but rationally.

I wholeheartedly disagree that making those distinctions about gradients of wrongness in any way denies the ability to see that both are wrong.....except for the brainless who can't do both.

Public shaming IS a sentence, one that harms your job, finances, family, and future. I have no problem with fair public shaming, but lumping a bad date in with real rapists is as fair as lumping you in with kidnappers and murderers because you slapped a disobedient child's behind.

He denies he did anything to intentionally make her uncomfortable or pressure her, which is what she accuses him of.

NO SIR. THAT IS YOUR POSITION, you said until overboard sentencing becomes a problem, there's no distinction needed between bad sex and forced sex.
Yes, it's not cool, but it's also not abuse unless it is.

If, like this woman, she #metoo'd that you were an octopus that ignored all her nonverbal signals to stop, your denial wouldn't mean much, and most people would just call you a rapist....just like his denial means nothing to you and you're more than willing to let him be lumped in with rapists and abusers.

You lumped them together in your post about how making distinctions is out of fashion. It's like you said stop eating broccoli, sugar, and bacon, then balked when I said broccoli is good for you, you only meant deep fried candied broccoli. Come on.

Don't expect me to read what you mean and ignore what you write...I absolutely hate that.
Don't be sexually aggressive...do be weird.

Yes, distinctions matter immensely.

No, grading offences is proper, otherwise you put rape and going Dutch on a date at the same level because they both upset the date.

If the person goes on a long date with you, accepts an invitation to your bed, undressed and engages in sex, asks you to slow down a bit (which means continue, slower, which you do), and continues, sleeps over, and only later complains, maybe relationships aren't for HER. Her date did absolutely nothing wrong. Verbal cues trump non verbal cues in the dark 99.9999999% of the time....pretty much any time there's no gun to your head.

@Payback, @newtboy you're missing the point.

It doesn't matter if rape is worse than groping... we need to start drilling into people that neither is acceptable.

The sentence for these crimes is different and that's correct. (So no, a shoplifter isn't Bernie Madoff)

But as far as I know, none of the accused has been sentenced to anything.

But public shaming as a minimum? I'm fine with that.

And Aziz Ansari doesn't deny what happened, he's just "sorry she feels that way".

"Does this go both ways? If a man has a bad date, or bad sex..."
There's a difference between bad sex and being pressured into sex. Even if it's not rape, it's still not cool.

"I hope that girl you had a bad date with in high school doesn't come back to show you the error of your position by adding your name to the "me too" list, destroying your career, family life, and future with no recourse to prove your innocence...all because she didn't orgasm.....but I do hope you see the error."

If she came back said I was crap in bed, I would probably shrug and say "hey I was a teenage boy, they're all crap at sex". If she said, I pressured her into sex, I would deny it vigorously.

"Being weird is the same as being a rapist?!? Jesus fucking Christ, I always thought you were rational. "
Come on, newt, you know that's not what I said. I said "stop being weird, gropey or rapey". If I said "stop eating bacon, doughnuts or sugar", would you think I meant that bacon, doughnuts and sugar are the same?

First, I like weird people on a day to day basis. Second, there's nothing wrong with consensual weirdness.

But in context, it's pretty clear what I was talking about. But if you must have it spelt out, don't
- force people to watch you masturbate
- meet people (especially younger members of the opposite sex that work for you) in a dressing gown in your hotel room
- make sexually explicit remarks to strangers

But to reiterate, yes, there are degrees of violation. Rape is worse than groping and groping is worse than exposure. There, happy now?

Now that we're all agreed on that, can we focus on stopping the problem instead of this pointless grading of offences?

This really isn't difficult. If you can't tell whether another person is enthusiastic about sexual activity with you... maybe relationships aren't for you.

Asis Ansari denies anything untoward or intentionally disturbing.....as is admitted by his accuser that's trying to have him convicted in the court of public opinion and blackballed....over her regretting having had bad consensual sex.

A bad date isn't rape, bad consensual sex later regretted isn't rape, an argument isn't rape, no chemistry isn't rape, only rape is rape and your contention is that this doesn't matter, they are equally guilty and deserve equal scorn and hate?!? Being weird is the same as being a rapist?!? Jesus fucking Christ, I always thought you were rational. This position you're taking is not rational, and drives rational people away from the movement....and will destroy it before it has any effect.
Being weird is a good thing, just look at the "normal" person and tell me they're worth emulating.

Don't stop using your brain.

Does this go both ways? If a man has a bad date, or bad sex, can he accuse the woman of exaggerated disgusting behavior publicly by lumping her in with serious abusers to hurt her professionally and personally as revenge for his own inability to say "stop" or "no"?

I hope that girl you had a bad date with in high school doesn't come back to show you the error of your position by adding your name to the "me too" list, destroying your career, family life, and future with no recourse to prove your innocence...all because she didn't orgasm.....but I do hope you see the error.

BTW, the next time you're caught saying something disturbing to someone else, you need to remind them you aren't trying to murder them. Your position means if you upset someone, that's the same as the worst thing you could have done, torture murder. There is no distinction.

In fact, your post did upset me, you fucking child raping monster. That's not overboard at all according to you, and you are exactly the same as a serial chomo...until legal sentencing time. That is what you advocate.
Fuck. People have all lost their fucking minds over this issue.

Sorry, but that's just silly. Limited sexual experience doesn't mean you can't be aware that it's bad sex, you can still be unhappy with it but not know why. You might also think that it's just the way it is.

I wonder how many long suffering wives have just lain there while their clueless husbands mindlessly plowed away, they'll go through the motions while quietly waiting for it to be done. All the while assuming this is just part of their wifely duties.

I've heard a lot about how these days, despite our sex soaked culture there are women who have never really learned about their bodies and can't even get themselves off. And to be fair, the clueless husbands are often no better educated than they are.

All three of them had incredibly bad sex as soon as the cameras were off.

the real question is:((why this father did this??????????????))
what akind of evil thinking in his mind????????????????????
i can answer>>>>
all of our life became very bad.......sex became important than every thing
we see the naked womens everywhere----we drink anytime
we can't deal with our sons----------we can see the whim of sexuality
in every eye---------where is our spirit????????????

Sorry, I didn't make my point right. We hadn't worked out the bad sex yet. It was the first year of our marriage that sex went from really bad, so-so, good, then, eventually, really good.

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^ChaosEngine:
Seriously what kind of insano would get married to someone without having sex with them first? Would you buy a car with taking for a test drive? I'm not even slightly joking here. And I'm not being sexist either, both partners need to know. Nor am I saying it's the end of the relationship if it doesn't work, but if you're committing to a lifelong relationship, you should go into eyes open.
And as for the whole "fornication is a sin" concept, we need to drop that crap. Unprotected sex is just idiocy, but if two consenting adults want to have casual safe sex, it's up to them. Honestly, we load all these expectations onto losing your virginity; "it should be special", "it should be with someone you love", blah blah. Let's face it, it's usually pretty unspectacular and awkward. These attitudes made sense when we didn't have birth control or protection from STDs but these days they're just a holdover from a time when you didn't want to end up diseased or stuck with a kid you didn't want.

My wife and I had bad sex at the start (Meaning the first year or more.) If we based love on this we'd have been...fucked... Love isn't a test drive Chaos, it is the gasoline. Now? Now we have great, mind-bending sex. It just took a long time to learn each other.

which is exactly why you shouldn't wait 'til marriage. You had an issue, you worked through it and now you're good. But that should be worked out before getting married. Hell, I think you should have to prove you've been going out at least 5 years (and living together for at least 3) before you're allowed to get married. Would reduce the divorce rate.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Seriously what kind of insano would get married to someone without having sex with them first? Would you buy a car with taking for a test drive? I'm not even slightly joking here. And I'm not being sexist either, both partners need to know. Nor am I saying it's the end of the relationship if it doesn't work, but if you're committing to a lifelong relationship, you should go into eyes open.
And as for the whole "fornication is a sin" concept, we need to drop that crap. Unprotected sex is just idiocy, but if two consenting adults want to have casual safe sex, it's up to them. Honestly, we load all these expectations onto losing your virginity; "it should be special", "it should be with someone you love", blah blah. Let's face it, it's usually pretty unspectacular and awkward. These attitudes made sense when we didn't have birth control or protection from STDs but these days they're just a holdover from a time when you didn't want to end up diseased or stuck with a kid you didn't want.

My wife and I had bad sex at the start (Meaning the first year or more.) If we based love on this we'd have been...fucked... Love isn't a test drive Chaos, it is the gasoline. Now? Now we have great, mind-bending sex. It just took a long time to learn each other.


which is exactly why you shouldn't wait 'til marriage. You had an issue, you worked through it and now you're good. But that should be worked out before getting married. Hell, I think you should have to prove you've been going out at least 5 years (and living together for at least 3) before you're allowed to get married. Would reduce the divorce rate.

>> ^ChaosEngine:
Seriously what kind of insano would get married to someone without having sex with them first? Would you buy a car with taking for a test drive? I'm not even slightly joking here. And I'm not being sexist either, both partners need to know. Nor am I saying it's the end of the relationship if it doesn't work, but if you're committing to a lifelong relationship, you should go into eyes open.
And as for the whole "fornication is a sin" concept, we need to drop that crap. Unprotected sex is just idiocy, but if two consenting adults want to have casual safe sex, it's up to them. Honestly, we load all these expectations onto losing your virginity; "it should be special", "it should be with someone you love", blah blah. Let's face it, it's usually pretty unspectacular and awkward. These attitudes made sense when we didn't have birth control or protection from STDs but these days they're just a holdover from a time when you didn't want to end up diseased or stuck with a kid you didn't want.


My wife and I had bad sex at the start (Meaning the first year or more.) If we based love on this we'd have been...fucked... Love isn't a test drive Chaos, it is the gasoline. Now? Now we have great, mind-bending sex. It just took a long time to learn each other.

That's the key, isn't it? This so-called "need". If you don't find the love of your life and a committed relationship, is porn your only option? I don't really see what need it's fulfilling. Indeed, it seems more like an exacerbation of the problem. It is neither emotionally nor sexually satisfying. I'll be honest and say that I can't relate. To me it seems logical (but then again, I'm a girl) that if you can't get laid, you avoid sexual arousal instead of actively seeking it out. Porn is not just the release of sexual tension, it is the augmentation of it. Or so I should think? Is the need for sex such that men need to both arouse and release in order to feel fulfilled? Or could they release sexual frustration only when it happens on its own? I have a hard time believing that men are sex machines that just can't function without regular porn use. And if they are, is it a learned behavior? Not that we aren't meant to have and desire sex, because we are. But porn itself is so perverse and psychologically damaging (because of the lies and the degradation it thrives on) that I cannot believe nor accept that men are wired to need it. What did single people do before prostitutes and pornography? I'm guessing that they lived in a world where sex was something that you do with a partner, and something that you hold in cold storage as much as you possible until it's needed.

I don't think sex is bad. Sex is great and good. I just don't think that anyone truly needs to participate in sexual perversion (the porn industry) to be healthy, happy, and (reasonably) satisfied.

Too bad sex for humans isn't that easy: You see a hot girl and just jump on...

Yeah, i was wondering about that aspect of the bad sex. Guys get "unrealistic expectations and a warped idea about what constitutes a relationship" from things in our culture too but probably less often from the mills and boon. Our initial sources can be more visual than literary but no less warped.

Good idea. They don't seem to include any Mills and Boon titles in their nominations. I suppose they don't consider any of those novels as otherwise excellent books. You'll find loads of bad sex in them, though, for sure.

It's kinda sad to think that all that bad sex was almost the extent of my sexual education, before I actually started having sex. Kind of sets a girl up for unrealistic expectations and a warped idea about what constitutes a relationship.

We used to love reading out the steamy scenes to each other at lunch time, at the all girls Catholic high school I attended.