*beg for judo chop of death

This is a total judo style reversal- well done.

>> ^MINK:
downvote because the title is so retarded.


Agreed on the title; deserves a palmface.

Of course parkour is not new. This is like wagging your finger at Pink Floyd and saying, "Hey, guys, didn't you know rock n' roll is not new." Or patronizing Judo practitioners because it was invented years after other martial arts. It's a modern resurgence of past and present body movement. Stop hatin'.

>> ^chilaxe:
The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.

This would be ridiculous, because aikido is practiced as a defensive art. Also see my points below. As an anecdote, there was such a duel arranged between one of Osensei's student and an american judo champion for a film on aikido in the 1960's. The judo guy was told not to attack since aikido was a defensive art. So he didn't. But the aikido representative (Akira Tohei), feinted an attack to create an opening and finally got the much bigger American judo guy on the ground. Still afterwards he was scolded by Osensei who said "You should have waited for an attack no matter what!". This is to say that there is no point in fighting if it's not to defend your life (or honor, since for the old Japanese the two are equal).


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Japanese bushi (samurai) did not participate in "realistic sparring" with their jujutsu techniques, yet the best of them could have probably killed any UFC champ. Why? Because they were ready to die at anytime. At that level, an untrained and sloppy but sudden and unexpected eye poke, for example, can become a lethal tool.

In my eyes, Judo and MMA competitions are much more dance-like than aikido practice. They're "freeform" dances. In judo and MMA you both have freedom from kata, but you lose that freedom because of 1) rules and 2) the "fair duel" setup, i.e. two guys that know when they will be fighting each other and even sometimes know what techniques the other favors. Aikido on the contrary doesn't require a "fair duel" situation to be effective. In fact, many (dan level) techniques are done with two or three opponents. We also practice with 4 or more opponents to make sure our techniques can flow instinctively under pressure. Karate still has kata with many opponent situation but most student don't even know they're fighting more than one "shadow" opponent in their kata. In comparison, in aikido we practice our "kata" (techniques) with a partner. This is because jujutsu is a skin-to-skin contact art, so you have to train your somatic sensations, up to being able to execute a technique in full darkness (this is practiced in many dojo in fact).

On the other hand, what is difficult with both competition and kata practice is to understand that in a non-comptetition or non-practice situation, you do not have to conform to kata or techniques. You execute them when the occasion presents itself, otherwise you try to create, in the heat of the moment, such an occasion (with atemi or some other distraction). In the end, the best teachers are real situations: if you really want to know if you're ready, go catch some criminals or kill some terrorists.

P.S. I know true judo (as done by Kano and Mifune for example) and many of the arts practiced in MMA by themselves don't need the "fair duel" setup to be effective, but the way they train for competitions makes it so (in fact Gracie jujutsu was made for fair duels. That's how they became famous in Brazil, by dueling. Saying that BJJ is good on the street is like saying a rapier is good on a battlefield: complete nonsense).

watch for kirk's "double-handed downwards judo-chop of death".

surprised that in reading the subtitles, i could recognize some russian that was similar to english.... but even more surprising... he didn't plug his judo video

I myself have no experience, though I have some friends into Judo and other such stuff. A good amount of Aikido is legit, but the stuff I always see seems to be so obsessed with form that they forget about practical application...especially the videos of Aikido instructed by Westerners, lol. That's cool stuff though, I really wish I had the time to start picking up something as a way to get some exercise and whatnot, but college and I don't get along none too well right now, haha.

In reply to this comment by NordlichReiter:
I have to agree with those Kokyunage(breath throw) like a ki ball. Most Kokyunage can be done more effectively with a goshinage. You think aikdio is bad... you should check out Aiki Jutsu... I was almost thrown out of the seminar for laughing out loud when he did a hocus pocus pin... with no hands.

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
>> ^NordlichReiter:
>> ^dannym3141:
Just looking on that above post, i saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX-hGLuheDc&feature=related
How on earth is that taken seriously? I understand the intention of demonstrations, and how they can be changed or manipulated to suit a situation, however these people are simply falling over for him. He moves his hand towards them and then literally flop down like a house of cards.
The knife one was alright, and elements of it could definitely be used in a real situation.

That is Ukemi, and that is what gives Aikido a bad name. We could argue all day.
In a lot of these movements particularly sankyo nage there is immediate pain, and flopping down will let the other guy know that it hurts... like hell.
Ukemi is an integral part to practicing safely, in this way every one can live though 2 hours on the mat.
When you are more experienced you can go as fast as you like so long as you are ready for the injuries that will come with that.
In a real situation you do what you were trained to do, in my training I would reach for a weapon.


I believe he was mentioning the throws that were totally unrealistic, like the one where they each have two hands on an arm, and he just tosses them by swinging his arms and stepping forward. Most of Aikido is bullshit, learn Judo.

I have to agree with those Kokyunage(breath throw) like a ki ball. Most Kokyunage can be done more effectively with a goshinage. You think aikdio is bad... you should check out Aiki Jutsu... I was almost thrown out of the seminar for laughing out loud when he did a hocus pocus pin... with no hands.

In reply to this comment by JAPR:
>> ^NordlichReiter:
>> ^dannym3141:
Just looking on that above post, i saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX-hGLuheDc&feature=related
How on earth is that taken seriously? I understand the intention of demonstrations, and how they can be changed or manipulated to suit a situation, however these people are simply falling over for him. He moves his hand towards them and then literally flop down like a house of cards.
The knife one was alright, and elements of it could definitely be used in a real situation.

That is Ukemi, and that is what gives Aikido a bad name. We could argue all day.
In a lot of these movements particularly sankyo nage there is immediate pain, and flopping down will let the other guy know that it hurts... like hell.
Ukemi is an integral part to practicing safely, in this way every one can live though 2 hours on the mat.
When you are more experienced you can go as fast as you like so long as you are ready for the injuries that will come with that.
In a real situation you do what you were trained to do, in my training I would reach for a weapon.


I believe he was mentioning the throws that were totally unrealistic, like the one where they each have two hands on an arm, and he just tosses them by swinging his arms and stepping forward. Most of Aikido is bullshit, learn Judo.

>> ^NordlichReiter:
>> ^dannym3141:
Just looking on that above post, i saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX-hGLuheDc&feature=related
How on earth is that taken seriously? I understand the intention of demonstrations, and how they can be changed or manipulated to suit a situation, however these people are simply falling over for him. He moves his hand towards them and then literally flop down like a house of cards.
The knife one was alright, and elements of it could definitely be used in a real situation.

That is Ukemi, and that is what gives Aikido a bad name. We could argue all day.
In a lot of these movements particularly sankyo nage there is immediate pain, and flopping down will let the other guy know that it hurts... like hell.
Ukemi is an integral part to practicing safely, in this way every one can live though 2 hours on the mat.
When you are more experienced you can go as fast as you like so long as you are ready for the injuries that will come with that.
In a real situation you do what you were trained to do, in my training I would reach for a weapon.


I believe he was mentioning the throws that were totally unrealistic, like the one where they each have two hands on an arm, and he just tosses them by swinging his arms and stepping forward. Most of Aikido is bullshit, learn Judo.

>> ^honkeytonk73:
You don't mess with an Aikido expert, or you'll go home in a stretcher. I knew a guy who was an Aikido master. I SO wanted to learn while at university.. just no time. Damn intensive physics coursework. I very much regret not training in it.


Yeah, but my Aikido instructor in Japan admitted that in a real bar-fight he got involved in, it was his Judo techniques that won the day for him. As other posters have mentioned, Aikido is great for mental discipline, body awareness, etc.

In terms of practical fighting technique, my one gripe with Aikido has always been that it prepares you for guys who are throwing the haymaker or trying to end the fight with a single punch or kick, but not for the more technical fighters (like boxers) who are content to pick away at you with jabs, pretty much denying you the use of much of your techniques. It also doesn't take into account fighting in an enclosed space(such as a crowded bar or elevator) where mobility is extremely limited and you're much more likely to have to grapple.

Not saying it isn't a great martial art--it is. Especially the way the Japanese train, you get a hell of a good physical and mental workout. If you're taking Aikido classes because you want to be an ass-kicker, though, you're probably in the wrong place.

Not to nitpick, but even Black Belts are a relatively new phenomenon. The story I heard was that the founder of Judo, Jigoro Kano, was quite blind in his later years, and used lengths of black cotton to tell his senior students apart from the newer ones.

The other story I heard was that you originally only used one belt from the time you took up an art. You were a black belt when your belt was black from dirt and sweat.

"Judo CHOP!"

While Competition is for the most part shunned by the Aikido community, "Tomiki" Aikido was developed to introduce Aikido to Japanese School systems and to replace existing Judo programs by adapting it to a competitive setting.

Basically, Tomiki Aikido competition is performed with one competitor wielding a wooden dagger (a Tanto), while his opponent attempts to disarm him. Points are scored to the wielder for successful attacks with the dagger, and to the unarmed for performing successful takeaways - the dagger is then placed on the ground and he retreats to neutral territory to await the next attack. Halfway through the round, they switch roles.

As NordlichReiter pointed out, Aikido-ka are trained first and foremost to avoid confrontation. We are trained to diffuse situations with diplomacy to let cooler heads prevail.

Chilax, you would be VERY surprised to see just how effective these techniques are in "street" settings, and as I said before, these Aikidoka are very skilled. The techniques they demonstrate are based on concepts that are centuries old, and have survived the test of time. Not to mention that Aikidoka are trained to take falls and throws with control and grace. Most Yudansha (that is, those who have attained a first-degree black belt or higher, usually requiring 5+ years of dedicated training) gain not only the requisite toughness through ukemi (safe-falling), but the confidence to tap into their knowledge at a moment's notice. Irimi-nage, and Kote-Gaeshi, as well as the perennial hip-throw technique, Koshi-nage, are all swift techniques that use your opponents energy against them while exposing the user to very minimal risk, and Aikidoka are trained to initiate these techniques from a wide variety of attacks.

You can divide basic hand-to-hand attacks into two basic categories: grabs, and strikes. Strikes can be further subdivided into at least three deliveries - from a tsuki, or thrusting attack (like a punch), shomen-uchi (a vertical-motion attack, like a hammer swinging downward), and yokomen-uchi (a horizontal-slashing attack, like a slash with a dagger or sword). Grabs are more numerous: same-side grabs to your wrist, cross-side wrist grabs, both wrists grabbed at the same time, two-hands grabbing one wrist, lapel grabs, chokes, grabs from behind like sleeper-holds... the list goes on. Aikidoka learn the basic techniques, such as Ikkyo, from simple grabs and shomen-uchi strikes in the beginning, and move on the more advanced techniques from stronger attacks as they progress.

You don't start by teaching a white belt hip-throws before they know the basic concepts of ma-ai (literally "distance harmony" or your basic attack range - I'm 6'1", so my ma-ai is going to be wider than someone say 5'5"), the importance of being centered and grounded (you're going to be supporting the weight of your attacker on your hip, if you don't know how to keep your feet and knees, you'll buckle under their weight), or the ukemi to take the fall without injuring yourself.

In some rare forms on Aikido there are competitions.

I wrestle and box on a regular basis, with training partners from Aikido, and judo.

But for the most part I have to separate the two because there are people there that could (Kick my ass) and I could in return kick ass.

I train with military and law enforcement types, so its not the crap you would see at a demonstration.

In an environment where there are rules one can expect an outcome.

In an environment were there are no rules one can expect a death or serious maiming. We could argue the drawbacks of MMA style and Aikido Style all day, and it would be a good discourse.

"There are many styles of Wushu. One style is not better than the other, there is only difference in skill." -Jet Li's Character in Fearless.

You would never see me in a street fight, because I would either mace, taze or shoot the assailant. No reason for me to get my hands dirty.

Many of us will never see a trained person in a real fight that does not involve emotion, we will unlikely see a confrontation with Wu Wei action. Because these confrontations usually end badly, for both parties.

What I do know is that in a life and death situation we can not be sure of any thing. There is no definite outcome.

I would never want to be on the ground with any one, once on the ground we are completely weak to attacks from other opponents.

Train to end all combat with in the instant it was started.

I thought they looked pretty varied, but then again I have a buddy that does Judo (sup rembar) so I've heard him talk about some of the different stuff and whatnot, yadda yadda. Kataguruma looks so goddamn cool.