more taxation = theft BS. By living here you are agreeing to be taxed to pay for things we all need. Like that pesky police force we all agree is necessary to a just state.

if you live here, you agree with these terms, thus no theft. If you don't like taxation, get out.

yet again we have this hypocrisy. when we agree to the terms of a contract when dealing with private business, no one complains when a business holds you to your end of the bargain. but when gov't tries to collect taxes you agree to pay and tries to hold you to your end of the bargain, suddenly it's this horrible thing.

If you want something, you have to pay for it and Libertarianism is just a way of saying "I want to get away with doing something that I know harms people" or "I want something but I don't want to have to pay for it" wrapped in delusion of freedom.

people throw around the word freedom but in reality, as @ChaosEngine pointed out. you give people freedom and they use it to fuck over other people. We haven't evolved to the point where we can realiably count on people not to fuck each other over. Someday maybe that will happen, but it certainly isn't today.

Voluntaryism is just Objectiveism and Meritocracy trying to divorce itself from the negative stigma of Ayn Rand. rebranding a failed idea to get gullible people to fall for it again. Legitimized avarice.

boy I sure didn't miss blankfist's one note charlie obsession with statism.

Did the people who come up with these ideas completely ignore the lessons they learned when they first became adults? When we're growing up, we hated our parents for imposing rules on us, when we first become adults and we have a first taste of freedom, we go nuts, we do extremely stupid things, harmful things. most adults do eventually learn that these things are harmful and *shock* learn to impose limits on themselves. Eventually they come to realize that their parents weren't jerks after all and they generally did have a good reason to impose rules on us. Sure there some shitty parents out there and the children of those shitty parents throw out the rules that didn't work when they become adults, but guess what, they don't throw out the system, they just come up with different rules. hopefully those rules are better, if not, we just try again.

There is this false notion of an adversarial relation between gov't and the people. PEOPLE CREATED GOV'T!!! gov't is just the current method by which we impose limits on ourselves. just like we do as we grow up. Sure, we don't have a perfect system. get used to it. If gov't truly wasn't necessary, we would have ditched it a long time ago. someday we will have the ability to self limit ourselves without a self-created third party, but that isn't today.

Probably isn't ever going to change until we evolve genetic memory of our parents/ancestors or we develop a way to download knowledge/experience Matrix-style so that instead of learning the hard way to not touch a stove because it's hot, we just already know it at birth or an earlier age.

That's not what progressive means, in this context. A progressive tax system is one where you pay a (progressively) higher rate when you have more income. What you have is a regressive tax system.

Do you happen to know what percentage of U.S. companies actually pay tax at the stated high rate? How does that compare to other countries? I know that quite a few of your companies weasel their way out of paying any tax at all, but I don't know how many overall manage this.

The ancient Roman empire also had social welfare, of a sort, increased after 122 B.C. See http://www.roman-empire.net/society/society.html for an overview. Then, as now, it was expensive to run.

The comparison is actually quite fair, except that in ancient Rome it was expected that wealthy citizens would give back to society and the idea of unbounded avarice as a virtue would have been quite foreign to them... so in a sense it's back to front.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Not quite sure how comparing that to the US economy makes any sense. The US has the highest corporate tax rate on Planet Earth now. We have very high capital gains taxes (compared to global averages). Our income tax is so "Progressive" right now that the bottom 50% of taxpayers only pay 5% of the taxes. Over 75% of the Federal Government's 1.6 trillion dollar budget is dedicated to social programs for the poor.
Only way comparing it to the vid makes sense if if you contextualize it by stating that it is the GOVERNMENT that is deciding the screw the poor by the process of its own incredible incompetence, malfeasence, and mismanagement. Since only about 20 cents on the dollar comes 'out' of government versus what goes in, then yes - the U.S. Federal Government is entirely oriented around screwing the poor.
But of course, that's not what Prog-Lib-Dytes mean. To a leftist, the video means "tax breaks for the rich" ... (insert liberal talking point) et al.

Dude love of money, not money itself. i.e. avarice. Jesus' anger at the money-changers was not because he wished they were bartering...

>> ^Stormsinger:

>> ^JiggaJonson:
If there is one thing the bible got right it's this: the love of money is the root of all evil.

Possibly the one and only thing Ayn Rand actually got right...her refutation of this old saw is amazing. An eleven page (IIRC) monologue by Francisco refuting the claim is actually readable, understandable, and quite logical. Money is a symbol and a tool, and quite a powerful tool at that. It expands our capability far beyond anything that could have been accomplished when limited to a barter economy.
The part she failed to grasp (or refused to admit, I'm not sure) is that unrestrained greed is -not- a virtue. Once you throw away ethical behavior in the pursuit of unbridled acquisition...once you start treating people as tools to be used rather than human beings...once you begin to look at people as sheep to be fleeced rather than trading partners to make mutually profitable deals with...you -are- evil.

If we can trust Wiki I did the research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanesque_art

Subject matter

Most Romanesque sculpture is pictorial and Biblical in subject. A great variety of themes are found on capitals and include scenes of Creation and the Fall of Man, episodes from the life of Christ and those Old Testament scenes which prefigure his Death and Resurrection, such as Jonah and the Whale and Daniel in the Lions' Den. Many Nativity scenes occur, the theme of the Three Kings being particularly popular. The cloisters of Santo Domingo de Silos Abbey in Northern Spain, and Moissac are fine examples surviving complete.

A feature of some Romanesque churches is the extensive sculptural scheme which covers the area surrounding the portal or, in some case, much of the facade. Angouleme Cathedral in France has a highly elaborate scheme of sculpture set within the broad niches created by the arcading of the facade. In Spain, an elaborate pictorial scheme in low relief surrounds the door of the church of Santa Maria at Ripoll.[6]
Around the upper wall of the chancel at the Abbaye d'Arthous, Landes, France, are small figures depicting lust, intemperance and a Barbary ape, symbol of human depravity.pic P Charpiat

The purpose of the sculptural schemes was to convey a message that the Christian believer should recognize wrong-doing, repent and be redeemed. The Last Judgement reminds the believer to repent. The carved or painted Crucifix, displayed prominently within the church, reminds the sinner of redemption.
Ouroboros, single and in pairs at Kilpeck, England

Often the sculpture is alarming in form and in subject matter. These works are found on capitals, corbels and bosses, or entwined in the foliage on door mouldings. They represent forms that are not easily recognizable today. Common motifs include Sheela na Gig, fearsome demons, ouroboros or dragons swallowing their tails, and many other mythical creatures with obscure meaning. Spirals and paired motifs originally had special significance in oral tradition that has been lost or rejected by modern scholars.

The Seven Deadly Sins including lust, gluttony and avarice are also frequently represented. The appearance of many figures with oversized genitals can be equated with carnal sin, and so can the numerous figures shown with protruding tongues, which are a feature of the doorway of Lincoln Cathedral. Pulling one's beard was a symbol of masturbation, and pulling one's mouth wide open was also a sign of lewdity. A common theme found on capitals of this period is a tongue poker or beard stroker being beaten by his wife or seized by demons. Demons fighting over the soul of a wrongdoer such as a miser is another popular subject.[8]

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy, Cosmos, Soul of the Nation' to 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy, Cosmos, Soul of the Nation, amsterdam, sculpture, gods' - edited by Eklek

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy, Cosmos' to 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy, Cosmos, Soul of the Nation' - edited by calvados

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy' to 'Sagan, Justice, Avarice, Envy, Cosmos' - edited by SlipperyPete

@gwiz665, I agree, but you probably missed the level of hue and cry from Republicans when Democrats talked about filibustering Bush's SCOTUS nominees. Basically their argument then was that according to the Constitution, the President should have the ability to select whoever he wants, that the voting standard should only be about competence and not ideology, and that it should always be a straight up or down vote.

Now that the shoe's on the other foot, their principled stand on all three is completely washed away, and they want to blame it on the Democrats for having been so partisan in the past that now they need to be just as partisan.

I didn't really expect anything else, their original stands weren't principled, but instead partisan. This is just one more piece of evidence towards showing they have no principle other than trying to defeat Democrats, no matter what they're doing, and that their avarice drives them to start talking about filibustering the Democratic nominee on the day the retirement is announced.

Hey bud,

I appreciate your invite. Watching the vid right now, and I have to tell you I have little faith in his words, I have little or no faith in our whole system. I have no faith in Paul's ideas, no faith in the Democrats ineptitude, and certainly no faith in the Republican's avarice and willingness to lie.

All I want to do is get out of America and start a new life in a country that cares about its people.

I'm washing my hands of this.

Paul just ended his vid with a lie. "Socialized medicine can't work."

He's your, man. It's all yours. I'm outa here.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Dr-Ron-Paul-Talks-About-The-Healthcare-Crisis

I thought you may be interested in this. Pharma is big corporatist interest. Remember that.

Has nothing to do with free market. Free market only means "a mutually exclusive contract between two parties without extortion". That's all. If I hired you to write a poem for me and you agreed to do it for a couple bucks because you agreed it was for the greater good of us all, do you think it would be fair for the government to say no?

I know you get hissy when somebody knocks on your boyfriend

Insult Hannity all you like. I've never watched his shows, so I have no opinion of him. I just don't like it when stats are twisted to suit a bias. Hannity has over 2X Olberman's audience on an average day, 1.8X as many adults 25-54, and 1.57X adults 35-64. In any measure of media viewership he's beating Olberman by a wide margin and he is doing it from a lower-rated time slot.

The correct comparison should Olberman to O'Rielly (same slot). O'Rielly has 2X Olberman's audience even in the 35-64 demo. For Hannity, the proper comparison is Maddow, who he is thumping with 2.17X as many viewers in the 35-64 demographic. Regardless, representing Olberman as being "nearly tied" with Hannity is ludicrous. Even cherry-picking your demographic, Hannity has 348,000 more viewers.

"disgusting person, avarice, dishonesty, mean-spiritedness, 'the mess' is all due to you"

I'm fascinated by your conclusions, though I'm not certain as to what facts they are based on. Logic pieces like these are what make discussions with neo-libs so entertaining.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Uh - that link rather clearly proves that Olberman has less than half of Hannity's ratings. I fail to see how that in any way is a repudiation of QM's point that Hannity is handily spanking both Olberman, Maddow, and pretty much every other Neo-lib propoganda platform. And Homlz - you definitely DON'T want to include internet, radio, or 'other'... It is not very pretty for the Neo-lib sides. Conservative shows are merely crushing liberal ones on TV, but on the Internet/Radio it is absolute butchery. The only place neo-libs get more traction are places that have no value, like this thread...


I know you get hissy when somebody knocks on your boyfriend, Winny, but that link shows that Hannity only has a narrow lead over Olberman and in the 35-64 demographic, they are nearly tied.

You're a pretty disgusting person, too, and I'm really tired of you referring to everybody on the left as "neo-libs" as if that were a balance to the self-named Neocons.

As with the Neocons, you and QM excel in avarice, dishonesty, and simple mean-spiritedness.

The mess we have now is all due to you and people like you.

None of it was caused by a liberal agenda. None of it.

>> ^schmawy:
TEOTWAWKI=The end of the world AS WE KNOW IT. That in itself could be a good thing you know? The world as I know it is war, poverty, corruption, corporate avarice, the military industrial complex, hate, waste, racism, and worse. Good riddance, I say!
What kind of ammo?


.223, and also some .45 ACP for good measure

TEOTWAWKI=The end of the world AS WE KNOW IT. That in itself could be a good thing you know? The world as I know it is war, poverty, corruption, corporate avarice, the military industrial complex, hate, waste, racism, and worse. Good riddance, I say!

What kind of ammo?

"You win my award for the best response to this of the bunch. Instead of ridiculing her, we need to figure out why people get this way, and do our best to prevent this kind of hardheaded ignorance."

We know why people get that way: because thinking is hard and believing is easy.

Because if you pander to their bigotry they'll justify your avarice.

There is no fixing it. Every time you try to expand their minds, they'll accuse you of being in league with the devil.

They will win, and we liberals will lose, the same way that Sparta beat Athens.

Is that what it is, closed-mindedness? Yes, he sacrificed a great deal in the performance of his job. It's too bad that the military is beholden to this particular commander and chief. It's good that he believes in the cause that he sacrificed his leg for, and I don't want to challenge those beliefs, buuuuuuut...

...You sacrificed yourself for their avarice and arrogance, in a war no-one but tyrants and corporations want. Maybe spreading "freedom" and "democracy" had something to do with it, but it's not even third on the list. Sorry. Glad you weren't killed, like so many are.

*promote