Reading this blog made me remember reading this Wired story from way back when I thought Wired was a good magazine (GO Maximum PC!) and the quote that really caught my eye was "Everyone has their Steve-Jobs-the-asshole story." I think it stood out because, on TV at least, he seemed nice enough, but mostly I wanted ammunition for arguments with my Mac fanboy friends.

More recently I remember reading about Apple pulling an entire e-book collection from one publisher after said publisher produced an unauthorized biography with the double entendre title "iCon: Steve Jobs" which is a move that I consider a far cry from "Do no evil."

Even Steve Wozniak openly said: "I couldn't treat people the way he does"

But do geniuses need to be assholes?

I would say that there is a fine line between tough love and devaluing the people around you. That fence dance can make a C feel like an A; but it makes the kid who fails feel all the more hopeless.

I don't think you have to be an asshole to make great stuff, but I do think you have to be an asshole (at least to a certain extent) to succeed on the level that Steve Jobs succeeded. You can't make it to where Jobs did unless you have a very clear vision of what you want, and you are willing to do whatever it takes to get there.

Quick and dirty. No you don't, but to control it, yes you do...

What kinds of assholish things did he do? I always thought he seemed like a decent fellow.

I'm a bit surprised at the general level of debate about Jobs. I don't really care about whether he was nice to people or not. I don't measure him on that basis, and I couldn't hope to know the truth of it.

To me, that whole discussion smacks of tabloid driven fantasy. You know, the whole pretence that we might actually know what celebrities are like. Oh, Angelina Jolie's a bitch, Steve Jobs was an arsehole, Tom Cruise is craaaaaaazy!

For me, the debate seems to have been about canonising a 'genius' or demonising a capitalist pig. Neither of these comes close to capturing how I think he should be remembered.

I confess, I'm not an Apple fan. I'm not an early adapter, I'm not into gadgets and I tend to wait until something is proven before I buy in. I'm not blown away by Apple products, but I did buy an Ipod when the dust settled and they seemed like a useful product. I still have it, and it's been worth the purchase. I don't see anything worthy of a genius tag on an Apple product, but they are beautifully designed, intuitive products.

Similarly, I don't think of him as an evil capitalist any more than any other business owner, and no less. Like any other manufactured product, Apple uses cheap Asian labour, but that doesn't offend me greatly. They appear to control the supply chain, and they have differentiated their products, managed supply, and achieved margins that are higher than their competitors - this is good business, and I respect it.

I don't believe he's 'changed' anyone's life dramatically - certainly not my own. I think he was a very smart guy who delivered very good products to a generation of people with high disposable incomes and an interest in technology. Well played.

I will never know what he was like as a person, and I'm ok with that.

@kymbos a little gossip isn't so bad now and again. In fact, it's likely programmed into our genes to be gossipy. That said, there's nothing I find particularly wrong with a curiosity about what motivates certain individuals.

Sure we'll never know with absolute certainty all of the inner workings of Steve Jobs' mind (as you pointed out), but analyzing his life and behavior will surely grant some insights about what kind of person he was and in turn how said personality reflects humanity as a whole.

I don't appreciate your "I will never know" approach here. I doubt you'd have much support among people who study Shakespeare for that idea. And as much as it makes me twitch to admit it, even studying the life of someone as lavishly ignorant as 'Snooki' would bear fruits of wisdom in the right intellectual climate. I'm not saying you have to care about him or his life, but there is always something to be gained by studying and discussion.

"An unexamined life is not worth living" as Socrates would say. Are there reasons you didn't mention for why you are suggesting the discussion should end?

But do geniuses need to be assholes?

No. No they don't.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Just as a thought experiment - can you name one who was well thought of as an all-around nice guy? Edison was an asshole. I've heard that Da Vinci was a real prick.>> ^quantumushroom:

But do geniuses need to be assholes?
No. No they don't.

I'm pretty sure kurt vonnegut was at least reasonably kind. He wrote so many books about the value of human kindness.

crispin glover is also unabashedly sensitive and kind and contains all the charm of someone who is not at all charming until they're speaking about something they love. i guess you could argue that he is not a genius, but then i would just tell you to attend a viewing for one of his insane art house films and stick around for the three hour Q&A he'll host when it's finished. genius.

oh i bet neil degrasse tyson is only slightly prickish, and only in the kindest most charming of ways.

>> ^dag:

Just as a thought experiment - can you name one who was well thought of as an all-around nice guy? Edison was an asshole. I've heard that Da Vinci was a real prick.>> ^quantumushroom:
But do geniuses need to be assholes?
No. No they don't.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Maybe it's only the inventors. Da Vinci, Edison and Jobs fit that bill. Deep thinkers and pure artists are pretty different. >> ^peggedbea:

I'm pretty sure kurt vonnegut was at least reasonably kind. He wrote so many books about the value of human kindness.
crispin glover is also unabashedly sensitive and kind and contains all the charm of someone who is not at all charming until they're speaking about something they love. i guess you could argue that he is not a genius, but then i would just tell you to attend a viewing for one of his insane art house films and stick around for the three hour Q&A he'll host when it's finished. genius.
oh i bet neil degrasse tyson is only slightly prickish, and only in the kindest most charming of ways.
>> ^dag:
Just as a thought experiment - can you name one who was well thought of as an all-around nice guy? Edison was an asshole. I've heard that Da Vinci was a real prick.>> ^quantumushroom:
But do geniuses need to be assholes?
No. No they don't.

you're probably right... i made a longer list initially and realized it was entirely composed of writers. i couldn't decide if it's because those are the people i've paid the most attention to in my life or if its because the nature of success is so incredibly different for a writer than a ceo. >> ^dag:

Maybe it's only the inventors. Da Vinci, Edison and Jobs fit that bill. Deep thinkers and pure artists are pretty different. >> ^peggedbea:
I'm pretty sure kurt vonnegut was at least reasonably kind. He wrote so many books about the value of human kindness.
crispin glover is also unabashedly sensitive and kind and contains all the charm of someone who is not at all charming until they're speaking about something they love. i guess you could argue that he is not a genius, but then i would just tell you to attend a viewing for one of his insane art house films and stick around for the three hour Q&A he'll host when it's finished. genius.
oh i bet neil degrasse tyson is only slightly prickish, and only in the kindest most charming of ways.
>> ^dag:
Just as a thought experiment - can you name one who was well thought of as an all-around nice guy? Edison was an asshole. I've heard that Da Vinci was a real prick.>> ^quantumushroom:
But do geniuses need to be assholes?
No. No they don't.

Ah, no. There are no reasons why the discussion should end. It shouldn't. Feel free. Analyse Snooki and Steve Jobs and whomever you like till you're blue in the face. I'm just giving my two cents.

I do find it ironic that you appear to be defending our right to discuss, but downvoting people's comments who contribute to the discussion. Enjoy.
>> ^JiggaJonson:

Are there reasons you didn't mention for why you are suggesting the discussion should end?

@kymbos Not really ironic at all. I didn't downvote your comment because I wanted you to shut you up, I downvoted because I strongly disagree with what I perceived to be your point.

Isambard Kingdom Brunell was an affable gent from anything I've heard bout him, invented all sorts of things and he did at least do magic at childrens parties.

In answer to the post title, I'm going to say: most of the time, yes. You have to be an asshole to make something great. Or do something great.

The two main exceptions are: when everyone involved in a collaborative is fully motivated towards the goal of making something great; or when you're doing something yourself and have the resources and talent and dedication to make something great without the potential for others to fuck it up, which frees you from the obligation to be an over-assertive "asshole" in order to maintain the vision. The first case is exceptionally rare, which is why most movies, games, corporate marketing, and other large-scale creative collaborations are garbage. The second case of doing something great on your own is less rare, but sustained individual creative effort requires focus, and despite not actually being an asshole, the required level of focus can often appear to other people as assholeishness.

[too much detail here]... the bottom line: people will eat up as much of your time, energy, and psychic space as you'll give them with your bullshit. Much of what people call assholeish behaviour is simply a person choosing to focus on their goals rather than waste time on anything or anyone who doesn't serve those goals. Personally I wish I'd been a bigger asshole for the past 10 years.

Do people have to be an asshole to make great stuff? Answer: Bill Gates.

Ron Popeil. Invented the Pocket Fisherman.

>> ^dag:

Just as a thought experiment - can you name one who was well thought of as an all-around nice guy? Edison was an asshole. I've heard that Da Vinci was a real prick.>> ^quantumushroom:
But do geniuses need to be assholes?
No. No they don't.

No. Bill Philips is one of the nicest people I have ever met. Tom Cech is a nice guy. I can name dozens of super famous scientists that I have met that were very nice. Warren Buffet is very nice, according to an acquaintance.

Assholes are not great because they are assholes. Some assholes are great because they happen to be intensely curious and they have a clear vision of how they can change the world.

Based on my experience, it is not a requisite for making a difference in the world.

It is funny. My advisor and I had this discussion after he read the Steve Jobs biography. My wife thinks Steve Jobs was great because he was an asshole. I disagree.