How This Citizen Stopped ICE From Arresting 2 Immigrants

‘I have no obligation to oblige by that warrant.’ — This citizen stopped ICE agents from arresting 2 undocumented immigrants because he knew his rights.
SFOGuysays...

*promote
*quality

Interesting--I can't actually tell if the ICE guy KNOWS he's bluffing--or if he isn't sure of precisely what the document in his hand actually lets him do

siftbotsays...

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Sunday, July 14th, 2019 9:59am PDT - promote requested by SFOGuy.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by SFOGuy.

smrsays...

I'm all for immigration. Can someone please explain to me why flaunting the rules of the state regarding who can and cannot enter and stay in the country is a positive thing? I understand that the proper process to promote my "more is better" viewpoint on immigration - petitioning my representatives, organizing politically, running for office, etc. - is slow, difficult, maybe broken. But isn't this democracy? Aren't we giving up on a representative democracy when we promote not just the tolerance of, but defense and support of, illegal actions? Isn't the right way, even if it's the hard way, changing the laws?

newtboysays...

It might be if republicans weren't such chicken shit obstructionists that they flee their own states and threaten to murder police in order to obstruct the legislature from even voting on legislation they can't defeat by democratic means.
One party abandoned democracy and the rule of law....it wasn't the Democrats. It's a bit unfair to insist they keep playing fair and getting steamrolled when the other side doesn't. Sometimes the wrong method is the only path to the right outcome.

smrsaid:

I'm all for immigration. Can someone please explain to me why flaunting the rules of the state regarding who can and cannot enter and stay in the country is a positive thing? I understand that the proper process to promote my "more is better" viewpoint on immigration - petitioning my representatives, organizing politically, running for office, etc. - is slow, difficult, maybe broken. But isn't this democracy? Aren't we giving up on a representative democracy when we promote not just the tolerance of, but defense and support of, illegal actions? Isn't the right way, even if it's the hard way, changing the laws?

smrsays...

That ends-means stuff has been used to justify some pretty awful, disturbing behavior. By that same argument the ICE officer, using your mores but from a different perspective, would be justified in ignoring the words, forcing open the door, and arresting the illegals. Violation of rights, sure, but it got the job done, right?

newtboysaid:

It might be if republicans weren't such chicken shit obstructionists that they flee their own states and threaten to murder police in order to obstruct the legislature from even voting on legislation they can't defeat by democratic means.
One party abandoned democracy and the rule of law....it wasn't the Democrats. It's a bit unfair to insist they keep playing fair and getting steamrolled when the other side doesn't. Sometimes the wrong method is the only path to the right outcome.

newtboysays...

True, but that's not the case here.
Edit: I was simply explaining why changing the laws, while the right method, might not be a possibility even though it's supported by a majority. Democracy in America is broken, as I explained, and obstructionism is rampant. People shouldn't be forced to suffer because of that fact if it can be avoided, imo.

No sir. It's his job and sworn duty to follow and uphold the law. Ignoring the words, words that stated the law and legal rights, is the same as ignoring (flaunting) the law, their rights, his job, and his sworn duty.

There's no such duty for the average citizen, who may recognize the failure and obstruction of democracy and, to avoid inhumane treatment of friends and family, stand on their legal rights to deny ice agents the opportunity to abuse their powers and lie about their authority in order to trick the ignorant into not availing themselves of the protections they enjoy under the law. (It's obvious that changing the law to force them to be honest about people's rights and the law is a non starter, since police and prison guard unions are the biggest non corporate lobbyist groups, and they are consistent in their insistence that they be allowed to lie to citizens about the law and rights.) That is not flaunting the law, it's availing oneself of their rights under it, granted it's sometimes in an effort to help others flaunt it.

Often those flaunting the rules of the state regarding who can and cannot enter and stay in the country are the ICE or border agents themselves, as exemplified in this video and many others....but smugglers, who also fit that bill, aren't doing good either, imo.

This person, however, was not flaunting the rules of the state, he was insisting the police follow them if they wish to arrest people, even suspected undocumented immigrants. You agree with that action, I hope.

smrsaid:

That ends-means stuff has been used to justify some pretty awful, disturbing behavior. By that same argument the ICE officer, using your mores but from a different perspective, would be justified in ignoring the words, forcing open the door, and arresting the illegals. Violation of rights, sure, but it got the job done, right?

smrsays...

I've got zero issue with the action in the video. Citizen rights are inviolate. However, the action shown is one piece of a huge apparatus and body of work ENABLING the flaunting of American laws and regulations. That is the hero of this video's actual JOB. Obstruction justice. Hiding of illegals. I get the alleviation of suffering, but I just can't get around the somewhat arbitrary application of the "any means necessary" ethical construct. Out of curiosity, would you support this gentleman if he used his citizenship rights to aid these illegal immigrants in entering this country in the first place?

newtboysays...

I cannot fathom how one would use their constitutional rights to smuggle someone into the country, but I did already state I don't think smugglers are doing good, or the right thing.

I would, however, fully support someone standing on their legal rights to help people who are deserving asylum, or at least to help offer the opportunity to apply for it.

I don't get the same feeling, that this guy (hero) flaunts the law to help people flaunt it. I got the idea he used the law to protect them....within the law. Without a signed warrant or conviction, they aren't yet illegals any more than you are after speeding but not being caught. They aren't even named suspects.

Note, I never said anything close to "by any means necessary", because I don't support any such thing. You said that. I said because democracy is broken and the majority is stymied by the minority, stopped from legislating solutions, sometimes "flaunting the law" is the only method left to avoid callously walking away and letting innocents be returned to certain death. A far cry from any means necessary, which would have people murdering border agents to let in everyone. I didn't even say "ends justify the means." I said "Sometimes the wrong method is the only path to the right outcome." That's desperation, not justification.

smrsaid:

I've got zero issue with the action in the video. Citizen rights are inviolate. However, the action shown is one piece of a huge apparatus and body of work ENABLING the flaunting of American laws and regulations. That is the hero of this video's actual JOB. Obstruction justice. Hiding of illegals. I get the alleviation of suffering, but I just can't get around the somewhat arbitrary application of the "any means necessary" ethical construct. Out of curiosity, would you support this gentleman if he used his citizenship rights to aid these illegal immigrants in entering this country in the first place?

Send this Article to a Friend



Separate multiple emails with a comma (,); limit 5 recipients






Your email has been sent successfully!

Manage this Video in Your Playlists




notify when someone comments
X

This website uses cookies.

This website uses cookies to improve user experience. By using this website you consent to all cookies in accordance with our Privacy Policy.

I agree
  
Learn More