Gooooo Tancredo!

I'm going to have to agree with Tommy boy on this one. Only because Hispanics are fast become not the largest minority, but the smallest majority. I was stationed at Ft. Bliss, TX (El Paso) for a couple of years, and i can safely say i despised its very existence. (theres allot going into that one) But the biggest reason is because of the Spanish Language. To truly understand, you need some basic info on 2 things. UTEP and PSU. UTEP is their major school down there. Its a shit hole. PSU, Penn State, is a well respected university. My wife is a PSU Graduate, and statistically speaking, more educated that 2/3 of the city. She could not get a job ANYWHERE because she did not speak spanish.

To drive down the road and see Chevy billboards with the motto: An American Revolution all in Spanish really pissed me off. At least here in Korea, i can expect to not know the local language. Its their country. But to not know the language in your own? Thats bullshit. When you have to be Bi-lingual to work at McDonald's? Thats bullshit. To work at a PUBLIC SCHOOL you have to speak Spanish? THATS BULLSHIT. Both true. I'm all about Immigration. Were all immigrants in America. But do it legally. So I agree with MG on this one. A debate in Spanish is kind of unsettling. it all falls back on the press 1 for English thing. I have Mexican friends, I have Puerto Rican friends, So i can assure you that racism plays not part. After all, I'm from Maine, and you'll be hard pressed to find a racist Mainer. In my opinion, forcing everyone to accept Spanish as a second language is only going to force people apart. It will create a more hostile environment than mandating English ever would.

I applaud Tom Tancredo for standing up for what he believes in. It takes balls.

As stated before, I don't think that the Univision debate necessarily panders to 'illegal' aliens, but rather the wider Hispanic community... assuming that its targeting illegals is only that, assuming, which Tancredo and others like him always do in regards to this issue, which is a big mistake and serves only to be counter productive.

ps. if you think that vid is so hilarious, why don't you try sifting it and get that P off yer back? Or would that blow your 'cover'?

Tom Tancredo is the only Republican who didn't pander to illegal aliens. Check out this funny video spoof he made of the Univision debate. It's hilarious.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GUCQAdlxgc

Time for Tancredo, bitch, before it's too late!!"

I think you, yet again, are looking at this from too black and white a position MGR. Yes, the law says one thing, but in practice and on the ground, things are much different. Yes you are right that those who are going to vote already speak English, but many don't speak it well or are not 100% comfortable with it, as they are still in the process of learning. If you've ever learned another language you would understand that, there are subtleties that you just can't possibly pick up on right away, and most likely, you will be forever more comfortable with your first language for the rest of your life. I think its good that they do this, so then citizens who are in that boat can make more informed decisions when it comes to casting their vote. I would far rather have them making an informed choice that they came to on their own, than one that was made for them by a family member, a pastor, or some other, more English savvy, third party. Having the debates in Spanish will empower a great many people with the knowledge necessary to make the decision that is right for them.

Also, the issues that will be discussed in this debate will undoubtedly be keyed towards the issues that concern Hispanic-Americans. Yes, to some extent this is pandering, but I don't think it is any different to the pandering that is already done by many politicians when they suddenly play up their ties to some church or another in the hopes of swaying the religious right. Hispanics, are now this nations largest minority, and vote in greater numbers than most other demographics. Underestimating this is political suicide in this day and age, and therefore, from a political standpoint, pandering to them only makes sense. If Tancredo is sitting this out because it has offended his sensibilities, then he only sounds like a racist hypocrit, because 90% of political campaigning is pandering and I doubt he would be so against it if he liked the demographic he was pandering to... but the guy is a bigoted xenophobe, this isn't the first hint of this, and most of his campaign is in appealing to other bigoted xenophobes who are afraid of Mexicans.

Politicians like Tancredo, and you yourself MGR, need to realize that America is not 'white man's country'. It may have been traditionally run as such in the past when things were different, but given the inherent nature of our constitution (which guarantee a voice to all, race or creed aside) and also the shifting demography of our country, which is at ground level composed of immigrants and subject to the shifts in immigration, America cannot possibly remain forever as a nation run by one race of people over another. Hispanics represent one of the fastest growing segments of society, and if we don't move to include them into our governing structure then our nation will fail to be the representative democracy that it so aspires to be. Also, failure to do such will only lead to political strife in the future, as any country that has failed to accurately represent an ethic or religious group within its government is pretty much setting it self up for a lot of resentment from the disenfranchised, see Lebanon and Iraq if you don't believe me.

And lastly, I think you wildly underestimate just how many people outside our country care about American politics. As the only superpower in the world, what goes down in our political arena affects everyone else. If you need any evidence of this just ask any of the members from this site who are not Americans, a good many of them know way more about American politics than the average American Joe. A debate held on Univision and dubbed in Spanish will undoubtedly be rebroadcast via its affiliates all over Latin America, thereby allowing the people in those countries to get a better, more informed view of the candidates. They might not be able to vote, but I guarantee, that many of them are highly interested in the election, as whoever it is that gains office in this country, will directly effect much of what happens in their countries... so, you cannot say that the debate matters only to those who can vote.

Kucinich 57
Death Penalty, Iran Sanctions

Clinton 43
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 42
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran - Military Action

Biden 40
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Same-Sex Marriage

Gravel 40
Death Penalty, Iran Sanctions

Edwards 39
Patriot Act, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Obama 39
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Same-Sex Marriage

Richardson 36
Assault Weapons Ban, Patriot Act, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Paul 1
Abortion Rights, Death Penalty, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Kyoto, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Marriage, Universal Healthcare

McCain -5
Giuliani -18
Thompson -20
Huckabee -24
Cox -30
Brownback -36
Romney -46
Hunter -48
Tancredo -53

Nice to know I don't agree 100% with any of them... and anyway, some of those questions kind of seem like its a little too late to be asking them, like the Iraq Surge one... its already happened, why the hell base an election choice on it? I also noticed that aside from the minimum wage question, there were very few economic ones raised like tax hikes, which probably steer more Americans at the polls than many of these other issues... but then again, I guess political candidates tend to not mention such things if they want to get elected... too bad too, I'd like for just one of them to come up with a way to get us out of this abyss of debt we've been led into yet again.

But yes, the test is not flexible enough to account for all my preferences, for instance, I only selected "Support-Important" for Iran Sanctions as preferential to taking military action against them... its that kind of bargaining that one often has to do at election time, and this test can in no way account for that.

Romney 22
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Tancredo 21
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Hunter 21
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Cox 20
Death Penalty

McCain 19
Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling

Huckabee 18
Net Neutrality

Brownback 18
Death Penalty, Iraq Withdrawal

Paul 13
Death Penalty, Iraq War, Iraq Withdrawal

Thompson 11
Embryonic Stem Cells

Giuliani 7
Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cells, Same-Sex Civil Union

Biden -7
Richardson -9
Edwards -10
Clinton -12
Obama -12
Dodd -14
Gravel -21
Kucinich -24


For the political compass it gave me:

Economic Left/Right: 2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.33

I agree with Doc_M and others though that have already pointed out that the questions can be a bit vague (Torture) or constructed to not properly record your beliefs. Theres no way I have zero disagreements with all three of those guys on the top of my list.

Something tells me this test is slightly biased towards Kucinich. Hell, I had no disagreements with Gravel, though Kucinich still got my top vote? Pfft. And, I have to agree with MINK:

"this is very clever way of turning people against ron paul. the reason i would vote for ron paul is not because i agree with him on the issues, but because he is the only candidate who says these issues are not the business of the president."




Kucinich 40
No Child Left Behind, Guns - Background Checks

Gravel 36
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Obama 19
Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Same-Sex Marriage

Paul 19
Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cells, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Same-Sex Marriage

Biden 16
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 13
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran - Military Action

Edwards 13
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Clinton 12
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Richardson 11
Death Penalty, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Thompson -11
Brownback -17
McCain -17
Cox -17
Huckabee -18
Giuliani -28
Tancredo -34
Hunter -36
Romney -41

McCain 31
No Child Left Behind, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Assault Weapons Ban, Guantanamo, Wiretapping

Cox 27
Death Penalty, Citizenship Path for Illegals

Romney 27
No Child Left Behind, Torture, Citizenship Path for Illegals

Tancredo 24
Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Torture, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Iraq Troop Surge

Hunter 24
No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Torture

Huckabee 24
No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Net Neutrality, Minimum Wage Increase

Brownback 21
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Wiretapping, Iraq Troop Surge, Iraq Withdrawal

Giuliani 21
Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cells, Torture, Same-Sex Civil Union

Thompson 17
Embryonic Stem Cells, Citizenship Path for Illegals

Paul 17
Death Penalty, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, Wiretapping, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Iran Sanctions, Iraq War, Iraq Troop Surge, Iraq Withdrawal

Biden 6
Abortion Rights, No Child Left Behind, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Guantanamo, Wiretapping, Net Neutrality, Iraq War, Iraq Troop Surge, Iraq Withdrawal, Minimum Wage Increase

Dodd 1
Abortion Rights, No Child Left Behind, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Guantanamo, Wiretapping, Net Neutrality, Iraq War, Iraq Troop Surge, Iraq Withdrawal, Minimum Wage Increase

Clinton 0
Obama -5
Edwards -5
Richardson -10
Gravel -23
Kucinich -28


Political Compass-

Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.72

(Some of the questions aren't very clear/rigged. There are some 2 part questions in which I agreed with the first half and not the second, or vice versa. It was still kinda fun. [example: It's fine for society to be open about sex, but these days it's going too far. What if I don't think it's fine for society to be open about sex AND I think it's going to far? Some of the questions about the economy didn't allow me to answer them in such a way that accurately portrayed my beliefs. Both surveys seemed to have been designed by somebody with views opposite to my own.)

Yeeah, this is looking a bit inacurate since everyone here basically to the same scores and even when I twisted up my views on some of the issues, I still got the same scores. BTW, if you're conservative at all, you will see the exact opposite of what you saw on your lists... That is: Romney on top and K on bottom.

Also, some of the "issues" were poorly worded, a perfect example being "torture." That's kinda funny having to choose if you're for or against torture. lol. Could have been better worded to get a better feel for what the candidates really stand for and what the polled people really want. NCLB and the Patriot act are others. You can support them, but want them changed... is that opposition then or not? etc.

Romney 37
No Child Left Behind, Torture, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Civil Union

Huckabee 33
No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Same-Sex Civil Union

Hunter 32
No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Torture, Iran - Military Action, Minimum Wage Increase

Tancredo 30
Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Torture, Iran - Military Action, Iraq Troop Surge, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Civil Union

Cox 24
Death Penalty, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Civil Union

McCain 19
No Child Left Behind, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Assault Weapons Ban, Guantanamo, Wiretapping, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Net Neutrality, Iran - Military Action, Minimum Wage Increase

Giuliani 16
Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cells, Torture, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Net Neutrality, Iran - Military Action, Minimum Wage Increase

Thompson 10
Embryonic Stem Cells, Net Neutrality, Minimum Wage Increase

Brownback 4
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Wiretapping, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Net Neutrality, Iraq Troop Surge, Iraq Withdrawal, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Civil Union

Biden -1
Obama -4
Clinton -4
Dodd -5
Paul -7
Edwards -9
Richardson -9
Kucinich -30
Gravel -34

EDIT:
The Political Compass site has me:
Economic Left/Right: -1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.92
LOL @ almost being dead center moderate on both scales.

but the questions on it are pretty idealistic. They'll tell you what you idealize, but not in a very practical way. Still, cool.

Bearing in mind I didn't answer many question I didn't know what they were talking about, here's my results:

Kucinich 57
Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action

Gravel 50
Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action

Richardson 39
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Same-Sex Marriage

Clinton 39
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Same-Sex Marriage

Obama 38
Patriot Act, Same-Sex Marriage

Edwards 34
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 31
Death Penalty, Patriot Act

Biden 23
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Same-Sex Marriage

Paul -6
McCain -8
Giuliani -10
Thompson -27
Cox -29
Huckabee -35
Brownback -41
Hunter -46
Tancredo -47
Romney -51


And that's fun because I've not even the slightest idea who Kucinich and Gravel are, and before this I just thought Ron Paul would have been my choice.

Kucinich 120
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Gravel 80
No Child Left Behind

Edwards 60
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 60
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action

Obama 60
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Clinton 60
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Biden 55
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Richardson 45
Death Penalty, Assault Weapons Ban, Patriot Act, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Paul -10
McCain -30
Giuliani -45
Brownback -45
Cox -45
Thompson -45
Huckabee -55
Romney -85
Hunter -100
Tancredo -100

Not a US citizen but I was curious. I wonder if all of VSers will fall in the same mold of candidates.

Kucinich 44
No Child Left Behind, Net Neutrality

Gravel 38
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Paul 25
Abortion Rights, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Kyoto, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Border Fence, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Marriage, Universal Healthcare

Clinton 22
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Edwards 22
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 21
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action

Biden 21
Death Penalty, No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Obama 21
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Richardson 20
Death Penalty, Assault Weapons Ban, Patriot Act, Net Neutrality, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

McCain -5
Brownback -10
Thompson -12
Cox -13
Giuliani -29
Huckabee -30
Tancredo -40
Romney -43
Hunter -45

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I've confirmed what already knew - Kucinich is my candidate.

Kucinich 67
(you have no disagreements with this candidate)

Gravel 51
No Child Left Behind

Edwards 31
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Clinton 31
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Obama 31
Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Biden 31
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Same-Sex Marriage

Dodd 30
Death Penalty, Patriot Act, Border Fence, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action

Richardson 25
Death Penalty, Assault Weapons Ban, Patriot Act, Iran Sanctions, Iran - Military Action, Same-Sex Marriage

Paul 14
Abortion Rights, No Child Left Behind, Embryonic Stem Cells, ANWR Drilling, Kyoto, Assault Weapons Ban, Guns - Background Checks, Citizenship Path for Illegals, Border Fence, Net Neutrality, Minimum Wage Increase, Same-Sex Marriage, Universal Healthcare

McCain -22
Thompson -24
Brownback -25
Cox -26
Huckabee -29
Giuliani -40
Romney -53
Hunter -55
Tancredo -56