I was interested in this talk when I heard her talk about the points she wished to address: (1) Are atheists actually angry?; (2) Why are they angry and is it valid?; and (3) Is this anger useful for the atheist movement?

Around the 15 minute mark, I became tired of what had become a crowd-pandering rant about what makes the speaker angry (self-classified by Greta as a rant at least twice later in this talk.) I kept skipping forward to find the end of the rant because I was interest in the other points she had promised to make. I'm not dismissing the validity of her individual points within that rant, but was wanted to hear her other points.

If you already know why atheists are angry, or don't need a warm fuzzy feeling from hearing someone rant about something you agree with, or just don't want to hear the rant in general:
SKIP FROM 6 minutes to 26 minutes.

I thought she made some excellent points when talking about the usefulness of anger within a social movement. People often idealize past social movement figures while ignoring what they don't know or don't wish to know. Also there tends to be a ignoring of the multiple groups working in tandem (although sometimes not more than of strangers taking the same bus to similar destinations) which created the social change that the history books lay to rest on the one idealized (idolized?) leader for one of the groups.

I really wanted to sift this video but the uploader blocked embedding for it. It's from October 27th and and he talks about the Occupy movements, Libya, as well as the history of social movements in general.
http://vimeo.com/31305132

In reply to this comment by Trancecoach:
It's too bad that this talk preceded the overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya and the onset of the Occupy movement in the U.S. and abroad. Would have been interested in hearing his response to the implications of these events.

seems that a very important aspect to OWS is that it is trying to be a social movement outside the bounds of a possessory identity. no party to belong to, nothing to identify with. just a call to attention. the rational observation that the top 1% is screwing everyone pretty badly.

yeah but a social movement (vs. political) is developing there too

i think to a great extent politicians only follow and respond to social movements, eventually trying to co-opt them as their own.

The current mindset, however, seems refreshingly united: the politicians can stick it.

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^TheFreak:
This was stupid.
A group of young people who want to be martyrs for the thrill of it, only they're not getting the reaction they need from "the man". They want an over reaction from the police, so they goad them until they manage to push one past his limit...then stand around pretending to be victims.
Look, the reality of the brutality and abuse of power perpetrated by a thuggish minority of the police force is appalling. This childish bating of the cops is pointless and insulting to all of us.
Every one of those jackasses screaming "get this on video", "police brutality", "the world is watching"...you undermine the entire social movement that you pretend to be there to support.
Disgusting.

Baiting
Cops are in a position of power, THEY have more responsibility placed on them.


I agree completely. In my view, the psychological stresses inherent in law enforcement are an unavoidable part of the job. Any individual without the ability to deal with those stresses has no business in that job.

However, it's disingenuous to pretend that these protesters were not inciting these officers for the very purpose of creating this video and the thrill of the confrontation. We don't see the hours of video that represents all of the police who did NOT react to the baiting.

Roofs are supposed to be strong...but if I jump around on roofs long enough, sooner or later I'm going to fall through one. When that happens I can certainly claim that the roof shouldn't have failed but anyone who watched me do that for long enough is going to surmise that I'm a jackass. And rightfully so.

I am in no way an apologist for aggressive police, anyone who knows me knows that is as far from the truth as possible. Still...let's be reasonable, these people were being dicks.

>> ^TheFreak:

This was stupid.
A group of young people who want to be martyrs for the thrill of it, only they're not getting the reaction they need from "the man". They want an over reaction from the police, so they goad them until they manage to push one past his limit...then stand around pretending to be victims.
Look, the reality of the brutality and abuse of power perpetrated by a thuggish minority of the police force is appalling. This childish bating of the cops is pointless and insulting to all of us.
Every one of those jackasses screaming "get this on video", "police brutality", "the world is watching"...you undermine the entire social movement that you pretend to be there to support.
Disgusting.


*Baiting

Cops are in a position of power, THEY have more responsibility placed on them.

This was stupid.

A group of young people who want to be martyrs for the thrill of it, only they're not getting the reaction they need from "the man". They want an over reaction from the police, so they goad them until they manage to push one past his limit...then stand around pretending to be victims.

Look, the reality of the brutality and abuse of power perpetrated by a thuggish minority of the police force is appalling. This childish bating of the cops is pointless and insulting to all of us.

Every one of those jackasses screaming "get this on video", "police brutality", "the world is watching"...you undermine the entire social movement that you pretend to be there to support.

Disgusting.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^ridesallyridenc:
Am I the only one here that thinks these people are useless? See a problem, sit around and do nothing. Ask for more stuff. Play the victim and "raise awareness." Right.
How about going out and starting a company and affecting change in a tangible way? How about creating jobs for your friends and giving back to society?

Ever heard of Jim Crow laws? How about the Vietnam war? Were you alive in the 50's when at colleges it was pretty much 99% white and male students? Have you been to a college campus lately?
Yeah idiot protesting and social movements start somewhere and have a purpose. You're uneducated about this subject...go and educate yourself.


You may be right. It may have to start in the streets before it can enact useful change down the road. I guess we all have our own parts to play, and that combination of everyone fighting for their own cause in their own way is what makes the world go 'round. I tend to be impatient and want to jump to solution, while others want to mobilize support for a cause. Not better or worse, just different.

Yes, I've spent plenty of time on campus as a student, as an employee, and as a teacher. There are some good eggs in there, but it always seemed to me that the majority of activists were highly-political, self-important children who liked the attention of being associated with a cause more than the cause itself.

One of my favorite experiences of late was meeting a woman who had just graduated from college. She wanted to start a clothing company that made college apparel. She was also distressed by the trend of off-shoring textile manufacturing into countries who had no regulation and did not pay their employees a living wage.

Rather than picketing, she went to Sri Lanka on her own dime and met local business people. She convinced one to open a textile factory that paid their employees a living wage of three times the national average, and she promised a certain volume of business to that manufacturer. They did, and she ran her clothing company in a responsible way. Once her margins were in order, she brought manufacturing back to North Carolina (her home state, a state that has been plagued economically by the loss of textiles).

She has taken more than 20% market share from the big 2 college clothing providers and continues to grow. Moreover, she has proved that clothing isn't always bought based on price alone, and that a socially-conscious business can afford to charge a premium to people who believe in its cause.

In my opinion, if you want to set an example, do it with success. Do it by proving that what you believe in is possible. Present solutions, and let people use you as a model.

>> ^ridesallyridenc:

Am I the only one here that thinks these people are useless? See a problem, sit around and do nothing. Ask for more stuff. Play the victim and "raise awareness." Right.
How about going out and starting a company and affecting change in a tangible way? How about creating jobs for your friends and giving back to society?


Ever heard of Jim Crow laws? How about the Vietnam war? Were you alive in the 50's when at colleges it was pretty much 99% white and male students? Have you been to a college campus lately?

Yeah idiot protesting and social movements start somewhere and have a purpose. You're uneducated about this subject...go and educate yourself.

1) I never said I agreed with what this person says, just that it was interesting.

2) You did not address his arguments as presented in this video, only what you perceive as his goals.

Did you even watch the video?

>> ^marinara:

not ad hominem. just because I disagree w/ you doesn't make it ad hominem.
the link works here in the usa
i'll just let you correct me on the Arabic in pakistan, even though i never meant to imply that Arabic was used in Pakistan, only that Arabic was used in islamist social movements

not ad hominem. just because I disagree w/ you doesn't make it ad hominem.
the link works here in the usa

i'll just let you correct me on the Arabic in pakistan, even though i never meant to imply that Arabic was used in Pakistan, only that Arabic was used in islamist social movements

god that guy on the left is SUCH a tool! Is this really how discussions are had on TV? Let two people speak at the same time, letting the space break down into two babbling talking heads? Woman was dead on though.
Heres the thing y'all. Challenging the drug laws challenges the prison-industrial complex, one of the most powerful industries in our country. They enable the state to control the population in ways that are incredibly difficult to break out of. This is why Marijuana hasn't been legalized yet. These drug laws allow for the corporate fuckers to control populations, something that is essential to maintain the realization of profit from the working class.

What we need are SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, not elected officials. Challenge this shit in your daily lives! All power to the people!

Hey, this is a fun work of fiction that I used to toy around with as well. Where a social revolution starts with a wealthy man taking people of great intelligence left behind by our education system, giving them the means and education to start to make a change in world. It sounds like a really fun idea. There is the metal disconnect though from an intelligent person at the art of making money and the art of reforming society. A man that knows how to make lots of money might not have the same kind of smarts needed to start such a great social movement. But, for fiction, it works!

@blankfist, well, we need to start trying some new systems on for size, first and foremost, and that's not going to happen as long as people like you, Kubric, and the ultra rich and the trans-national finance institutions that they own are more than willing to strangle those new systems like babes in the cradle.

I don't want to hear any malarkey about "creating jobs" when that is the last thing that rich people or capitalists want to do. You weren't going to hire people to create jobs, you were going to hire people to do your work for you and make you richer.

Where capitalism does create jobs is in the sweatshops of the hell holes that dot the Pacific rim of Asia.

You've retreated into this cocoon of idealism that has completely skewed your view of reality. You've gone so far as to resurrect antiquated definitions of political and social movements and rebrand them to suit this idealistic, and very unrealistic, view of the world.

You've gone so far as to call yourself a liberal and to accuse GW Bush of being a leftist.

That is a disconnect with reality that I think you would do well to reevaluate.

I can't give you a better system than capitalism, but that does not mean that one does not exist, that one can not be found, established, perfected. Things are better for the people of Venezuela, Brazil, and Bolivia since they've moved to a more socialistic system. Few could argue otherwise.

There is a better way. It's out there, waiting to be born.