@Jerykk

You seem to subscribe to the idea of government spending being fixed and a zero sum game. It's not. If a prison rehabilitation program prevents a former criminal from re-offending and he finds gainful employment, then not only does the country derive potentially lost tax revenue but they avoid the cost of future incarceration. There's a good chance that's a net positive, even though there's initial money put down.

Your mentality fits a uniquely American approach to social problems that many in the rest of the developed world (Europe, Australia, Japan) would find strange, possibly even pathological. Being that, government spending should be kept to a minimum, and every policy should be based on market incentives (in this case threats), even in cases where taking a different approach would produce a better result. Now I studied economics and would be one of the first to say that this is clearly a better approach in many situations. But not all cases.

Your statement here is a good example:

"History has proven that fear is a very effective deterrent. Convince people that there are significant consequences for their actions and they'll think twice before doing something stupid.'

This is intuition, but your intuition is wrong. Firstly codified law does little 'convincing'. How many offenders do you think know the likely sentence of their crime before they are caught? If you agree then how likely do you think say a doubling of the prison term for shop-lifting going to have any effect?

There's no reason to test this because the data exists already when comparing pre and post juvenile offenders. The potential punishment leaps but the risk of re-offending barely changes.

As for more serious crimes, if the graveness of the death penalty is such a strong deterrent, then why does the US lead the charts among developed countries for murder and incarceration rates despite being one of the few that have it? Not to mention, the ones that do, Singapore and Japan barely ever use it.

Frankly, the whole notion that you can rationally deal with a person who is committing a crime (who is fundamentally acting irrational in committing the crime in the first place) is ludicrous.

Let's be serious. Your idea of punishment being a deterrent sounds nice but is not supported by any actual real world data. Meanwhile Scandinavian countries which do focus on rehabilitation have seen substantial drops in recidivism. There's the 'trust me it will work this time' and there's the 'supported by actual evidence' approach.

I checked with my mom and it was Alanen.

Thanks for the detailed Schuko info. By the way, I'm part Finn on my Grandmother's side. I think the family name was Alanin or Alaninin. Something like that. I'd love to make it to the Scandinavian countries some day.

It can be different. Look at the prison system in scandinavian countries.

http://theconversation.com/nordic-prisons-less-crowded-less-punitive-better-staffed-12885

There is something very simple but effective in work here. Letting kids be kids, let them get dirty and adults just hanging out with them teaches more valuable lessons of life than any hovering tiger-mom style. Asian countries have surpassed Scandinavian in math skills but at horrible cost. It's just stupid to put kids in to super-learning mode if they grow up unhappy, with social skill problems, unable to fit or feel accomplished.. I like our way of doing things, thank you very much. Eat dirt, climb where you shouldn't and fall down, scrape knees, explore without fear, get hurt, discover, all of that is important part of growing up.

@enoch, if I sound evangelical, it's because I have an allergic reaction to misinformation and a deep aversion to disinformation...

Here are my comments, interspersed:

> and how come all your examples are the european countries that got fucked
> in the ass by corrupt currency and derivative speculators?"

By corrupt currency, do you mean the Euro? These are a big percentage of the so-called "1st world countries."

> are you working for goldman sachs?
> whats the deal man?

Are these borderline ad hominem, or did I miss something...

> denmark? finland?

Is that it, do you want to limit the evidence to the scandinavian countries? Fine, list for me the countries you want me to address and compare to the US or more free market economies and we will proceed from there.

> but its apparent you dont know shit about socialism.
> socialism-communism=not the same.

Personal attacks aside, communism is a type of socialism in the Marxist sense. But to clarify, please define 'socialism' as you think it should be defined, if something other than public control over the means of production.

> and no free market carny barker never seems to want to talk about.

Are you getting upset about something, or are you not calling me a "free market carny barker"?

> 1.how do you fix the currency issue with its pyramid scheme?

What is the currency issue? The central bank's monopoly in currency? You get rid of legal tender laws and let people decide what currency they want to use and accept.

> 2.how do create a level playing field for the wage slave? or debt slave?

You have to be more specific as to what "level playing field means in practice" so that I can answer this.

> 3.or can you outright buy people?

Do you mean slaves? No, that goes against free-market non-aggression and self-ownership principles.

> 4.since nothing is communal and there is no regulation.is there anything that
> cannot be commodified?

Again, please be more specific about what you mean by "commodified." Do you mean are you free to buy and sell anything as long as you don't violate self and property rights? Not clear what you mean here but I'm sure with some clarification I can address it.

> look man.i get it.lots of good things can happen with a free market. but so can
> a lot of bad. eyes open my man.

Sure, but please tell me, what specifically bad can happen in a free market that cannot happen as bad or worse in a non-free market?

> reminds me of the scientist who came up with game theory.
> from the rand institute i think. the whole cold war was set up on this dudes
> principles of self-interest. did a bunch of testing on dudes and the data
> seemed conclusive...until he did the same experiment with secretaries. turns
> but they were unwilling to dick each other over and were more prone to co-
> operate with each other.

How is this relevant? People like to cooperate. That's the basis for the voluntary free market and why it works.

> well how about them apples.co-operation as a way on interacting. ya dont
> say? very interesting.

I agree. Voluntary interaction equals cooperation. That is the free market. Coercion is the non-free market. Is there disagreement here, because I don't see it.

> i know we both agree that what we have now is a clusterfuck.
> and i agree that the free market should have a place,that its even vital. but
> unrestricted free markets? naw..no thanks.

I still don't know the specifics of how exactly you want to "restrict it" and how specifically you want to restrict it. You must forgive me if I don't think you are as competent to restrict me and my life and my business and I myself am. The same with your life and business, I am not qualified to restrict it.
Who is then? Specifically, "who" do you want to restrict you, and your freedom to engage in free trade?

Okay then, lets arbitrarily exclude everything that's not part of the so-called "first world" -- which leaves the U.S. "empire" and its satellites/provinces.

"Regulated" how? What specific "regulations" did you have in mind? (You have an "out" by saying that it has to be the "right regulation," so, pray tell, what is the "right" regulation?)

And ultimately, so what? Is Greece better off because it is more "regulated" (whatever that means)? Or because it has less "inequality?" Or is Greece now no-longer part of the "first world?"

And by "Europe," do you mean the EU (have you seen Europe's economy lately)? How about Switzerland? Are they more "regulated" (whatever that means)?

In case you have noticed, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, the UK (most of the EU, really) isn't doing that great right now, is it?

Edit: Let me know of the specific regulations you have in mind that will make everyone equal (like the Greeks, apparently). Hint: Just "regulations" does not mean anything without context. Do you mean to say that the EU has more laws than the U.S.? I wouldn't think of the U.S. as being a "deregulated" or an "unregulated" place. Would you? I live in California where the legislature is just now reviewing no fewer than 400 new laws to implement. I doubt that many (if any) Swiss cantons have more laws and regulations than California. Or Luxembourg. Or Estonia (which, by the way, is Europe's most recent economic miracle: a country with one of the freest -- albeit not perfectly free -- markets, relative to other countries).

Or perhaps you mean the Scandinavian countries (which I contest are not as "regulated" as you might think)?

@oritteropo
"[Norway's] stats of 20% recidivism after 2 years compares fairly favourably with the United States statistics of 80% after 3, wouldn't you agree?"

You are controlling for ethnicity, right? Or not?

Scandinavians in the US do just as well as they do in Scandinavia, in the same way that East Asians in the US have just as low crime rates as they have in East Asia.

(Actually, Scandinavians do even better in the US than in Scandinavia, but not by a huge amount.)


So no, Scandinavians' crime rates in Scandinavia don't compare favorably with Scandinavians' crime rates in the US. They do great in both systems.

Happy 31st birthday, my Scandinavian friend!

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Tough-Texans-Try-Scandinavian-Specialty

Tough Texans Try Scandinavian Specialty has been added as a related post - related requested by oohlalasassoon.

Cheers, my Scandinavian brother!

I can only base my opinion on what I've seen via the internet and though experience with Ukrainian classmates.

One thing that struck me was when a Russian woman and I were talking about our Danish husbands and how nice Scandinavian men are in general. Some Ukrainian (and Bulgarian) women jumped in on the conversation and said Danish men don't act like "real men" and were too nice/emotional. I instantly loose respect for anyone who says how a real man (or women) is supposed to act.

Nope - no Scandinavian languages here - this is plain ol' fashioned annoying autotune and/or speech synthesis.

We need a *Scandinavian channel, methinks.

Never would have guessed it. Seriously German accent can be very easy to confuse with french, scandinavian or even russian. Not the "typical" accent. Vere it zounds laik zey arr speeking tscherman aktschually. But the "hard" pronounciation of some words.
In reply to this comment by oritteropo:
I quite liked these guys, too - King Khan & The Shrines, Khan is a Berlin based Canadian so it's a German band. Obviously. I'm sure you could tell... even if I had trouble picking it ;
In reply to this comment by luxury_pie:
Thanks for the little concert. Did improve my work day by an order of magnitude :