This thread is all about people who can deal with complexity and nuance, and those who can't.

Was there ever a cop-out so easy to make and so devoid of pith? I trow not. It is ever so when those pesky, nasty, mean old facts and logic end up troubling the counsels of the followers of a pied piper. The persons unable to grasp nuance and complexity in this debate are the ones who are blindly following Obama, and taking everything he says at face value. Obama is in trouble. His numbers are dropping horribly. He's lost the support of the public, and his own party is wobbling.

Last night was not a speech for the public (who he's lost). Not was it a request for Republican cooperation (which he doesn't need). Last night was a warning shot at democrats who are getting nervous at how much the public is against this vague, undefined, secretive, expensive, socialistic bill.

"The time for bickering is over..." That was aimed smack dab at his own party to shut their pie-holes, line up, ignore their angry constituants, and goose-step where he tells them to go. Obama is telling the eroding Democrats in his party anything/everything he thinks he needs to say in order to give them just enough CYA to cram his bill through over the objections of the people. In doing so he's trying to get the entire country to ignore the details. He's trying to soar his bill through with rhetoric alone, and he's hoping there are enough Obama-zombies out there to make it work without too much political blowback.

Obama's claim that the bills do not cover illegals is window dressing. There is more than enough evidence and historical precedent to lend credence to the accusation that the bill will end up covering illegals as sure as the sun rises. I'm sure Obama really BELEVES that just because it 'says it' in the bill then that means the issue has been dealt with. Actually taking the time and effort to make his bogus claims reality is for his minions and flunkies to deal with at some unknown future time...

3.She's deciding that she's tired of exposing her family to media

I suspect it is this as much as anything else. If the standard media treatment is any yardstick, then any future political activity of any kind from Palin would be met with incredible hostility along with nasty attacks on her family. She may simply have decided that she'd be better off behind the scenes where her family isn't so open to calumny. The foaming-at-the-mouth left-wing reaction whenever you mention her name is a fine example of the pied-piper mentality the media has drummed into the mush that neolibs call grey matter.

Her speech was rambled a lot and didn't make a lot of sense. The impression I got was that she was flying off the cuff rather than making any sort of prepared statement.

Eminent domain is a back burner issue.

Obsama's thugverment is full speed ahead in other ways.

The Supreme Dolts' failure to review the Chrysler deal allows unsecured creditors (union) to be placed ahead of secured creditors. This is a clear violation of contract law and the bankruptcy laws, and our basic right to property.

If you bought/had Chrysler bonds you are screwed, and any property YOU own can now be seized since the law of contracts has been broken and the sheeple follow the pied piper into tyranny.

The arbitrary and secretive closing of car dealerships is appalling. Contract law means nothing to these tyrants. One dealer in Minn has
been in bus for 90 years and is very profitable. The tyrants are forcing them out of business, they will lose all they have invested.

Would you like that???

The tyrants won't answer the dealerships' question: why us??

If we do not wake up the question becomes: when will the tyrants come for your business/property on some flimsy pretext?

The goal of the tyrants in power is to nationalize private enterprise (like Argentina) and control the means of production.

Either Obamarx goes, or freedom goes.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
You have to wonder sometimes if people think about what they say - or if they have to capacity to even see hypocrisy in themselves any more...
...Unwilling or unable to engage substantively on the issues, it always seems to redound to name calling, prejudice, and bias of the lowest, coarsest, meanest sort.
...Hmm...
You see - I'm not a slave (like some of YOU) to a 'party'. Those of you that mindlessly hew to party politics must dance to the tune of your pied piper. You don't mind selling out your honesty, fairness, and common sense because you have whored them out in the name of partisan fanboism. I - as an intelligent principled person who stands on pure philosophy am not shackled by such limitations. And so for me there is nothing inconsistent in my PRINCIPLE BASED resistance to both Bush's and Obama's bad policies. You - sadly - are party slaves who have no choice but to surrender your integreity when your messiah snaps his fingers. I pity you. But fret not. Those of us with a stiffer spine and more courage will fight the good fight with our without you...


It might have helped your argument to not resort to name calling and had instead written: "You see - I'm not ENSLAVED by a 'party'... blah blah blah

It would have helped also to simply not go on this rather biased, mean, coarse rant of yours and written more constructively, there for providing an atmosphere where people could more substantially engage on the issues.


At least you can spot the hypocrites.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
You see - I'm not a slave (like some of YOU) to a 'party'. Those of you that mindlessly hew to party politics must dance to the tune of your pied piper. You don't mind selling out your honesty, fairness, and common sense because you have whored them out in the name of partisan fanboism. I - as an intelligent principled person who stands on pure philosophy am not shackled by such limitations. And so for me there is nothing inconsistent in my PRINCIPLE BASED resistance to both Bush's and Obama's bad policies. You - sadly - are party slaves who have no choice but to surrender your integreity when your messiah snaps his fingers. I pity you. But fret not. Those of us with a stiffer spine and more courage will fight the good fight with our without you...


Right, you don't follow anyone's message. Rush Limbaugh is now telling you Bush was a liberal, and that it's now okay to just assume Bush was a Democrat, so that Democrats are still responsible for everything.

This is literally like a scene from 1984, in the middle of a massive celebration of Oceania's alliance with Eurasia against Eastasia, they suddenly swap to an alliance with Eastasia against Eurasia, and start tearing up their decorations, blaming the Eurasians for a plot to undermine the celebration of their eternal alliance with Eastasia...

Conservatives are doing this with Bush now, and then accuse Democrats of being mindless followers, and not people with principle who have their own issues with Obama (though far fewer than we had with McCain or Bush).

You guys have no idea who we are, or why we too are ready to fight you morons tooth and nail.

Boy - the left wing of the political class sure does think that everyone is incredibly stupid.

Bush had about - and I'm being generous - two days of VERY begrudged relative silence from the Democrat party after 9/11. During the election Bush was assailed relentlessly as a moron/drunk/fratboy. Immediately after the election he was relentlessly assailed as illegitimate because of FloriDUH. The opposition from the Democrat side immediately after his election was staunch, persistent, and rather personal. There were contant calls for his failure, and for knee-jerk resistance and rejection to any and all of his policies. "Tax cuts for the rich" anyone? I - unlike too many people here it would seem - have not forgotten that in 2001 it was the DEMOCRAT party that was the "Party of NO!"

Then 9/11 hit, and for about two days the Democrat party had a reluctant, bitter, and resentful cease-fire. But even then they were clearly chomping at the bit to lite into Bush, and they couldn't help themselves entirely. Even in those dark days there were Democrats and left-wing media pundits saying it was all a Bush conspiracy. And there were constant jibes at Bush for his 'handling'. Whining about him reading to the kids... Insinuations that he was a coward for staying on his airplane... It went on, and I (unlike some of YOU) have not forgotten it.

Then Bush started moving at Iraq and the party of "NO!" came back 100-fold. And since that day the Democrat party resisted everything Bush did, called for his failure, worked to aid and abet our enemies, and generally did everything they could possibly do to cause Bush problems and ensure that Bush 'failed' in the polls.

I - unlike some of YOU - have not forgotten that 99.93151% of the Bush administration's term was 100% pure partisan contrariness. I haven't forgotten that the left wing hoped for, prayed for, called for, and (most importantly) WORKED for Bush failure. It is pure sophistry for some of you to imply that Democrats somehow were hoping Bush succeeded as they were actively torpedoing his administration, and calling it a complete failure every day in the news.

Now - here's the point... I - unlike YOU - am not a hypocrite. I don't have a problem with people wanting Bush to fail. I was no fan of Bush, and I WANTED many of his policied to fail completely. His big spending agendas... He toss-away liberal policies... His terrible management and domestic agenda... His pointless persistence in Iraq... I WANTED them to fail, and I wanted them to END because they were BAD POLICY. There is nothing wrong with wanting a stupid man's BAD policies to fail because they are bad for the country.

And you know what? Obama's plan to socialize America, tax productivity, cap & trade energy, and otherwise turn America into "Euroloserland" is also BAD POLICTY. I want all of Obama's BAD POLICY to fail and fail hardcore. And I will do what I can to aid and assist in the resistance to Obama's bad policies. I will march against Obama like some of you marched against Bush and for the exact same reasons... Because he's a terrible president who is enacting idiotic policies that will cause incredible damage to this great nation for years to come.

You see - I'm not a slave (like some of YOU) to a 'party'. Those of you that mindlessly hew to party politics must dance to the tune of your pied piper. You don't mind selling out your honesty, fairness, and common sense because you have whored them out in the name of partisan fanboism. I - as an intelligent principled person who stands on pure philosophy am not shackled by such limitations. And so for me there is nothing inconsistent in my PRINCIPLE BASED resistance to both Bush's and Obama's bad policies. You - sadly - are party slaves who have no choice but to surrender your integreity when your messiah snaps his fingers. I pity you. But fret not. Those of us with a stiffer spine and more courage will fight the good fight with our without you...

The ship is sunk, the rescue boat is gone, the life vest has a leak and the shark is chewing on his leg, yet QM will not admit defeat...

Obama is a blessing, a warning and wake-up call. Like the pied piper, he has led the rats and turncoats off the USS True Conservative. Despite his rudderless ways, McCain would've been a nice alternative to the coming multiple and needless messes to come (liberals always learn the hard way, when they learn at all) but now with only taxocrats as far as the eye can see running things, all the pressure of reality is on you libs.

The spiel that sold the used clunker won't keep it running off the lot.

As an Arizonan, I can tell you McCain is a pretty good guy. He's done a lot of good, and actually has been a "maverick" and "reached across party lines" often. Unfortunately, as soon as he won the republican nomination you could almost see the strings pulling him. Everything from then, until Nov. 4th was completely unlike himself. It's been painfully clear McCain was just another puppet, dancing to the tune of the right. I think it's obvious he's just as relieved as the rest of us that he lost. He would've followed that pied piper straight to his lonely, stressful grave. A grave I fear Cindy would've helped Palin dance on. This speech is the most like himself he's sounded for over a year. I don't think the republicans wanted him to lose, I think he himself wanted to lose.

And I think he's just as disgusted as the rest of us about the "Boo"-ing of our new President. Fucking despicable.

On a side note: I live pretty much down the street from the Biltmore Resort where this 'celebration' was. My girlfriend and I walked over to a restaurant in the mall adjacent to the Biltmore for dinner on the 4th and the police presence was incredible. They pretty much blocked off every street in the area, causing a traffic jam for at least an hour on the main road (Camelback) and screaming at any civilian who approached their motorcycles. We even had to trample some Bushes just to get around three motorcycle cops who decided to park and talk on the sidewalk we used to get home. When I heard Obama was holding his celebration in a public park in Chi town I thought that pretty much illustrated the difference between these two candidates.

Side side note: A place on the corner opposite the Biltmore named Oscar Taylor that has a predominantly black customer base was partying into the wee hours. Shouting to the crowds gathered to watch McCain's motorcade go by, "Vote Obama!!!" It was pretty awesome.

the strong who exploit the weak are not heroes in my book.

In reply to this comment by thinker247:
He wasn't a mass murderer; his followers committed the crimes. And if you blame him for provoking them, you're really blaming their gullibility and desire to leave behind their cookie-cutter lifestyles for his brand of anti-society rhetoric. He's the Pied Piper, leading the king's children away.

In reply to this comment by laura:
are you sure you don't mean Marylin Manson?
This guy (Charles Manson) was a mass murderer, you know...
sure hope you're joking about lovin' the dude...


In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Can I please upvote this again? And again? And once more?

I'll say it again...

I heart Charlie.

His autobiography is excellent, by the way. But don't take my word for it. Check it out!

Alright, an answer to those who think I'm trolling or simply stating something stupid by saying I heart Manson.

First of all, I follow serial killer history very closely, as it intrigues me. How can it not intrigue you when a societal misfit destroys what you call normalcy?

Second, I think he's a crazy character, and I like that. Don't tell me you haven't seen George Carlin make silly faces like those in this video.

And most importantly, as I mentioned to laura, I like his Pied Piper-style of leadership. He took suburban white kids from good homes and he listened to them--something their parents didn't do. They were no longer comfortable in the society in which they were raised, so he offered them the chance to leave it all behind and live at the ranch. They lived in a commune, helping each other with their everyday needs; totally dependent on each other for survival.

They had crazy parties and orgies, enjoying every minute of their hedonistic lives, until Charlie mentioned that a black man had just been killed after an altercation, and a race war would be starting soon. So what did the kids do? Did they run away from this raving lunatic and go back to their cookie-cutter lives in the work-a-day world? No, they joined together and did unspeakable acts of violence.

So tell me, who is to blame for the Tate-LaBianca murders? The killers, or the lunatic fringe father-figure?

Don't we give medals to soldiers? Don't we pay them to kill dark people around the world? Don't we give them a heroes' welcome when they arrive back home after bombing villages?

Don't tell me that society hates Charlie Manson for telling a bunch of drugged-out hippies to kill people. Society hates him because he went his own way and dictated orders on his own terms. That's why he's in prison for the rest of his life when he never laid a finger on the victims. He was the four-star general who ordered his troops into battle, and they willingly followed his orders, because that's what a good soldier does. He's an American hero, but outside of the boundaries of what we call "normal." And that's why he's hated. And that's why I like him, because he's an odd duck.

He wasn't a mass murderer; his followers committed the crimes. And if you blame him for provoking them, you're really blaming their gullibility and desire to leave behind their cookie-cutter lifestyles for his brand of anti-society rhetoric. He's the Pied Piper, leading the king's children away.

In reply to this comment by laura:
are you sure you don't mean Marylin Manson?
This guy (Charles Manson) was a mass murderer, you know...
sure hope you're joking about lovin' the dude...


In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Can I please upvote this again? And again? And once more?

I'll say it again...

I heart Charlie.

His autobiography is excellent, by the way. But don't take my word for it. Check it out!

Do what thou wilt, the whole of the law of monkeys....responsibility, accountability.....like the real world, that is fast becoming the construct of many pied-pipers......

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

We don't need a "why videosift" answer from me. That sounds perilously close to a mission statement. My favorite places on the web are the self-organized phenoms that don't necessarily have a pigeon-holed purpose but are great anyway.

We're not a single-task valley start-up looking to fix something.

People invest themselves in VideoSift for lots of different reasons- and that's great. I'm not a pied piper looking to get everyone to pull together for a single goal.

So no, I'm not going to answer "Why videosift" for you - but you spend a lot of time here - so why not answer it for yourself?

Nominating mlx for a pied piper award

Just like Pied Piper Led rats through the streets He danced like a marionette Swaying to the Symphony Of Destruction Acting like a robot...