Nice topic and a nice video, but as usual the implications of a research project (oxytocin and birth control behavior alterations) are a lot more intriguing than the initial project itself. I wonder if pill manufacturers will take interest in any potential research though.

That guy was jacked up on so much oxytocin during this interview.

"Like those trees, we are all dying. The future is an illusion, our plans are an illusion, our fears an illusion. We live life in every breath. Now. Every cup of tea. Every word we write... Every blossom we hold. Every life we take. A beat. Life in every breath. That is bushido." - Katsomoto The Last Samurai

You can try to stop this, but it is the Human Condition, like the desire to see others suffer, the desire for sex, or the any other desire that you can compare.

But, as certian things are scientifically discovered (this is not a scientific article http://www.oxytocin.org/oxytoc/love-science.html) they may find that all things that happen in a brain is a chemical reaction. Love is a chemical induced euphoria, glee also. If depression is a chemical imbalance, then the will that most humans have to keep them from self harm can be altered by chemical reaction.

The happening is a movie rendition of the belief that a chemically induced stupor can make the brain kill itself.

Persephone, I don't have a lot of time to write, so apologies for being brief.

You're right about the video, I went back and listened to that part. I do believe he says that the amygdala shuts down at some point, but he didn't there.

However, even that quote is not quite right. Labor cannot be shut down so simply, especially because of the volume of adrenaline required to provide to create a reaction to the effects of oxytocin is sky-high, as in, must be artificially manufactured and injected, even for the stress of childbirth. On top of that, the evolutionary mechanism for such an interaction between fear and contractions, if it were actually true, is shoddy at best and more likely plain wrong. The oxytocin/adrenaline interaction mechanism is a complex one, and one that is not chemically antagonistic, especially since high levels of adrenaline are expected and in fact natural during and after birth, as well as during sex, and orgasms. If adrenaline and oxytocin couldn't work together, sex wouldn't be as fun as it is. In short, adrenaline does not neutralize oxytocin, nor do contractions just stop when adrenaline is released.

Since that particular argument is factual in nature, it's only fair if I quote you some sources. If you'll take a look at the three papers I have below, you'll notice that in no way do high-stress levels of adrenaline serve to interfere with contractions in a negative, non-regulatory manner, and that in fact, it has a beneficial effect at a natural (read: non-Epipen injection) level.

Contraction of the depolarized uterine muscle. Department of Normal Physiology, Sverdlovsk Medical Institute (Presented by Academician L. S. Persianinov, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR). Translated from Byulleten'' Éksperimental''noi Biologii i Meditsiny, Vol. 68, No. 7, pp. 8–11, July, 1969.

Obstetric Outcome Following Epidural Analgesia with Bupivacaine-Adrenaline 0.25% or Bupivacaine 0.125% with Sufentanil-A Prospective Randomized Controlled Study in 1000 Parturients.
Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey. 53(9):533-534, September 1998.
Olofsson, Ch.; Ekblom, A.; Ekman-Ordeberg, G.; Irestedt, L.

or, perhaps most ironically: Why Natural Childbirth? Judith A. Lothian. J Perinat Educ. 2000 Fall; 9(4): 44–46.

Anyways, I agree hospitals do bad things, and there should be more oversight and regulation to prevent this. I have no problem with that, I have a problem with bad science.

You can email me or go to the Coffeehouse if you want, but it's probably not the best idea to continue this discussion on profile comments, perhaps a better setting would be in order. Cheers.

Persephone, I don't have a lot of time to write, so apologies for being brief.

You're right about the video, I went back and listened to that part. I do believe he says that the amygdala shuts down at some point, but he didn't there.

However, even that quote is not quite right. Labor cannot be shut down so simply, especially because of the volume of adrenaline required to provide to create a reaction to the effects of oxytocin is sky-high, as in, must be artificially manufactured and injected, even for the stress of childbirth. On top of that, the evolutionary mechanism for such an interaction between fear and contractions, if it were actually true, is shoddy at best and more likely plain wrong. The oxytocin/adrenaline interaction mechanism is a complex one, and one that is not chemically antagonistic, especially since high levels of adrenaline are expected and in fact natural during and after birth, as well as during sex, and orgasms. If adrenaline and oxytocin couldn't work together, sex wouldn't be as fun as it is. In short, adrenaline does not neutralize oxytocin, nor do contractions just stop when adrenaline is released.

Since that particular argument is factual in nature, it's only fair if I quote you some sources. If you'll take a look at the three papers I have below, you'll notice that in no way do high-stress levels of adrenaline serve to interfere with contractions in a negative, non-regulatory manner, and that in fact, it has a beneficial effect at a natural (read: non-Epipen injection) level.

Contraction of the depolarized uterine muscle. Department of Normal Physiology, Sverdlovsk Medical Institute (Presented by Academician L. S. Persianinov, Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR). Translated from Byulleten'' Éksperimental''noi Biologii i Meditsiny, Vol. 68, No. 7, pp. 8–11, July, 1969.

Obstetric Outcome Following Epidural Analgesia with Bupivacaine-Adrenaline 0.25% or Bupivacaine 0.125% with Sufentanil-A Prospective Randomized Controlled Study in 1000 Parturients.
Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey. 53(9):533-534, September 1998.
Olofsson, Ch.; Ekblom, A.; Ekman-Ordeberg, G.; Irestedt, L.

or, perhaps most ironically: Why Natural Childbirth? Judith A. Lothian. J Perinat Educ. 2000 Fall; 9(4): 44–46.

Anyways, I agree hospitals do bad things, and there should be more oversight and regulation to prevent this. I have no problem with that, I have a problem with bad science.

You can email me or go to the Coffeehouse if you want, but it's probably not the best idea to continue this discussion on profile comments, perhaps a better setting would be in order. Cheers.

Rembar, go back to the video and listen at about 3:22. He says "the amygdala says this is not a safe place for birth... and the process of labour shuts down voluntarily until a safe haven can be found to birth"

He doesn't say the amygdala shuts down, but the process of labour does. He is absolutely correct in saying this, because when a woman experiences fear in labour, adrenalin neutralises oxytocin, which causes contractions to come to a screeching halt.

Later he says "the amygdala shuts down the system", meaning the system of birth and the interplay of hormones that I just described.

I have also been involved in many births, as a doula, and a brief stint as a trainee midwife and as a mother. I can tell you from my experience in all of these situations, that when a woman is afraid, her labour is sabotaged.

I can also tell you from my experience of birthing in a hospital, that hospitals can make a woman terrified. Routine procedures like putting an IV insert into her wrist upon arrival "just in case you need to have a caesarian" do nothing to send a positive message that she is going to be able to deliver with ease.

Telling a woman that her baby is in fetal distress because "It's not moving enough (prior to the onset of established labour), and telling her that "If you don't get it out today, chances are it will have an apgar score of 4 or less and its survival will be compromised" is using absolutely disgraceful fear tactics and is the kind of lies women are told, to get them to agree to hospital procedures like inducing labour at 10 days past the due date.

My amygdala serves me well in remembering these words, because the birth of my little girl was one of the most devastating days of my life. Not because she was in distress (she had apgars of 9 and 10), not because she was born with compromised well-being, she was perfectly healthy, but because birthing her was like going into battle.

We had to fight for the right to birth her naturally throughout the entire labour. Eight hours into established and difficult labour (because let me tell you, synthetic pitocin is no party. My cervix tore from the force of its unnaturally rapid dilation) the good doctor wanted to speed things up with an IV!

I'm happy to say that Dag was an amazing advocate for me, and we staved off the lions and did the rest of the labour naturally.

So, if you have any more questions about why hospitals are not a safe place to birth for the happy and healthy, just forward them to me, I'd be happy to tell you details of not-so-lucky women.

In reply to your comment:
“Deathcow, I'm not sure how closely you read into my previous comment, but I'm not talking about his conclusions. I agree to a large extent with his larger social and economic reasoning for why hospitals push women towards surgical procedures and chemically-induced contractions to speed up births. But that's no excuse for scientifically inaccurate claims. He's wrong. There's no two ways about it. Unless of course, in the middle of all those births, you witnessed some poor woman's amygdala shutting down and stopping her contractions in the middle of labor because a hospital setting scared her.”

Rembar, go back to the video and listen at about 3:22. He says "the amygdala says this is not a safe place for birth... and the process of labour shuts down voluntarily until a safe haven can be found to birth"

He doesn't say the amygdala shuts down, but the process of labour does. He is absolutely correct in saying this, because when a woman experiences fear in labour, adrenalin neutralises oxytocin, which causes contractions to come to a screeching halt.

Later he says "the amygdala shuts down the system", meaning the system of birth and the interplay of hormones that I just described.

I have also been involved in many births, as a doula, and a brief stint as a trainee midwife and as a mother. I can tell you from my experience in all of these situations, that when a woman is afraid, her labour is sabotaged.

I can also tell you from my experience of birthing in a hospital, that hospitals can make a woman terrified. Routine procedures like putting an IV insert into her wrist upon arrival "just in case you need to have a caesarian" do nothing to send a positive message that she is going to be able to deliver with ease.

Telling a woman that her baby is in fetal distress because "It's not moving enough (prior to the onset of established labour), and telling her that "If you don't get it out today, chances are it will have an apgar score of 4 or less and its survival will be compromised" is using absolutely disgraceful fear tactics and is the kind of lies women are told, to get them to agree to hospital procedures like inducing labour at 10 days past the due date.

My amygdala serves me well in remembering these words, because the birth of my little girl was one of the most devastating days of my life. Not because she was in distress (she had apgars of 9 and 10), not because she was born with compromised well-being, she was perfectly healthy, but because birthing her was like going into battle.

We had to fight for the right to birth her naturally throughout the entire labour. Eight hours into established and difficult labour (because let me tell you, synthetic prostaglandin is no party. My cervix tore from the force of its unnaturally rapid dilation) the good doctor wanted to speed things up with an IV of more oxytocin!

I'm happy to say that Dag was an amazing advocate for me, and we staved off the lions and did the rest of the labour naturally.

So, if you have any more questions about why hospitals are not a safe place to birth for the happy and healthy, just forward them to me, I'd be happy to tell you details of not-so-lucky women whose stories make mine look like a picnic.

Peter Watts has already noted that he scooped Hodgman on the aerosolized oxytocin in Blindsight last year (which, by the way, is a brilliant book available as a free download from his site.)