You mean that there's a demand for a bank type institution to actually do what banks do: store savings and grants loans instead of taking your money, creating a huge sum of money from that, then invest that in to options and derivatives that is basically gambling, then losing it all and getting everything back as bailouts? Really, who would've guessed a traditional bank is a good thing when it doesn't run on "profit now" ultra-capitalist principle.

It's something that is very common elsewhere in the world. There usually is a demand for very simple, traditional basic banks that can't swindle with overdraft charges, credit cards pushed to people who can't handle them, just the basic bank you store money temporarily.

There are regulations in place that allow such banks to be exist and these banks are the real backbones of the economy, increasing growth in the smallest sectors that immediately invest that money back in to the economy. It might even be state backed bank or a group of citizens, it might be mandatory by law etc. Usually every country has one. It promotes equality, social mobility and keeps the cash rotating much longer than what investing towards investment banking does. The latter is just a cancer, it doesn't really do anything but it skims the most wealth and that wealth does not move anywhere, it stays in that imaginary system.

In USA, regulatory system is so stripped out that freerange capitalism is really showing how bad it is when it's left running things. Capitalism is like fire: good servant, poor master.

>> ^kevingrr:

Yea that's a bad call, but they have $2.26 Trillion in assets, $90 Billion in revenue, and $19 Billion in net income. I think they can absorb the loss.

But if they don't get that $30 overdraft fee, they'll have to close up shop and head out Californy-way...

Are you at all sympathetic to the view that there is too much concentration of capital in the financial sector, and not enough in the real economy? I think the compensation has gotten way out of whack in relation to the services they perform. I also think the securitization of debt was a horrible idea. What was wrong with glass steagall you know? What I'd like to see is a return to bankers loaning out deposits, and investors seeking out entrepreneurs. Instead, we have investors seeking to leverage systemic risk knowing full well they have a lifeline because the government can't go ahead and flush our life savings down the toilet now can it?

>> ^kevingrr:

What we are going to see shortly is traditional banks close up shop in low to low-mid income areas.
The banks offered "Free Checking" with the knowledge that people would overdraft and they would make fees on those overdrafts. There is no such thing as a free lunch or free banking. This was always part of every banks business plan. Caveat Emptor.
Those fees are now being restricted by Dodd-Frank. Therefore the banks can no longer turn a profit in many low/mid income neighborhoods. Banks are in business to make a profit and when they cannot make a profit they will close or downsize.
The solution is fairly simple. Banks will close and currency exchanges and payday loan shops will open. I don't think these businesses are preferable to banks. It an unintended consequence of the bill. It will hurt people it was meant to help.
I have free checking. I maintain a four to five figure balance and I have never been charged. I don't have everything I want, but I have more "things" in my life than I will ever need.
Chase lost $2 Billion dollars? Yea that's a bad call, but they have $2.26 Trillion in assets, $90 Billion in revenue, and $19 Billion in net income. I think they can absorb the loss.

What we are going to see shortly is traditional banks close up shop in low to low-mid income areas.

The banks offered "Free Checking" with the knowledge that people would overdraft and they would make fees on those overdrafts. There is no such thing as a free lunch or free banking. This was always part of every banks business plan. Caveat Emptor.


Those fees are now being restricted by Dodd-Frank. Therefore the banks can no longer turn a profit in many low/mid income neighborhoods. Banks are in business to make a profit and when they cannot make a profit they will close or downsize.

The solution is fairly simple. Banks will close and currency exchanges and payday loan shops will open. I don't think these businesses are preferable to banks. It an unintended consequence of the bill. It will hurt people it was meant to help.

I have free checking. I maintain a four to five figure balance and I have never been charged. I don't have everything I want, but I have more "things" in my life than I will ever need.

Chase lost $2 Billion dollars? Yea that's a bad call, but they have $2.26 Trillion in assets, $90 Billion in revenue, and $19 Billion in net income. I think they can absorb the loss.

Chase is only doing good because they havent been caught yet... and they ended the no-min balance free checking WAMU had in place. Same with Bank of America.

I seriously had bank of america drain my $25.00 account I opened in 2008, telling me they charged a fee one year after the account was opened. Only they decided four months ago. When I went to the bank, they said if I didnt pay another $25.00 in overdraft because they were charging me because they already took my cash, I would be sent to collections. So bank of america stole $50 dollars directly from me, not to mention all the other money they must steal. Run out? Print more, steal more. Buy goods and services and real estate that can't be refunded or liquidated, rinse, repeat.

Fucking assholes.

There was no help for me. I can afford the loss, I'm too smart to know nothing will ever happen to get my money back, and im too dumb to keep track of my money so i put it in a bank and they stole it. I really am not too good at life.


Maybe in the end, there can be only one. And then we can all stfu or gtfo! it would be easier than pretending there was a solution.


ps I'm a white male aged 18-34 with a high 700's credit score and no outstanding debts... i had money to spare... but that doesn't mean the bank can steal it... i could have used it for something too, and it was mine. wahhhhh!!!


geez i sound almost as bad as the corporate babys and other crooks who are sad they can't steal so easily. wahhhh!!! i have to work to live in a country where im not as likely to be raped for an AIDS cure or/and beheaded for my religion!!! communism!!! black people!!!

>> ^Yogi:

Which credit union is the best one though?


Credit unions memberships are limited to a certain locality or group. So it varies depending on where you live. I'd choose the one that has the most locations, and is insured by the NCUA (nearly all are).

Also, it's helpful if the credit union is part of the coop network. If it is, you can use ATMs at other Coop network credit unions at no charge. And you can use any ATM with the Coop network logo for free. For example, all ATMs at 7-11s use the coop network. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO-OP_Financial_Services

I'm quite happy with my credit union. Free overdraft protection to a line of credit beats the hell out of $30 overdraft fees at large banks.

OK, wait.

Dear Bank of America:
This card is the banks idea, your idea. We didn't ask for it.

It was established to curve the rising costs of moving money around. It costs money to move coin from one location to the next. Paper money costs money to print and replace as it deteriorates. Moving money electronically greatly decreases the instance of hold-ups and robbery.

I remember having arguments with bank managers who wouldn't let me stand in line at the bank - I had to use the machine. The bank in question had someone in-line asking each person in the teller line-up what their transaction was and diverting everyone they could to the machines.

Saying that the card system costs the banks money and the consumer must pay the price of having one is absurd. This is YOUR cost of doing business. I currently pay a bank service charge which includes my ability to have a card. I am allowed a limited number of transactions per month, after that I am charged per transaction (30¢ each). I am also charged a $1 fee every time I use a bank machine from a different bank (interac connected). Further, there are machines strategically located (example inside the movie theater) where they charge an extra $3 to make a withdrawl - which is robbery because they pulled the debit from the theater and force you to use these machines if you need cash for the concession.

For us to pay extra fees and pay for fraud coverage is also a scam. The system the bank uses is faulty, it always has been and they know it. To charge us fees to cover losses for a system that by design is easy to fraud is a sham. If they can't figure out a fraud free system, why are we using it? Fix the dam system. Adding a chip that can be scanned from a foot away as someone walks by is a faulty system and no better than the strip it replaced.

Clearly, the card is a cash cow that was instituted as a money scheme from the beginning. The banks pull more money from clients with the invention of these cards than anyone realizes. That combined with accounts that never pay interest, or so little that it's invisible, Overdraft fees, Service fees, and every other fee aside from you investing our money and grossing profit while it sits with you is the tip of the iceburg.

Your take from us is not unlike taxes, we are forced to pay it. Our pie is getting smaller and smaller while you keep asking for bigger and bigger pieces. Housing costs have skyrocket, mortgage rates, insurance rates and all the other plates that want a piece of the monthly pie. By the end of the month, there is little, if nothing, left for all our hard work.

And for all that, you slap us in the face and try to institute another fee just because you think you can. Are you that disconnected with the patrons that grace your bank with their business? You work for us and only when we ask you to. If we come to shop at your place of business, you should be grateful and pander to your clients. Not throw leg-irons on us and laugh at us behind our backs.

Thanks for listening.. (I wish)

>> ^eric3579:
A friend told me this story a few months back. To the best of my recollection this is how it went.
Fri - He had an account balance of $100+
Fri - ATM deposit of a payroll check for $1200+.
Sat - 3 separate transaction all between $10-$25. Paid with his debit card.
Sat - 4th transaction was $150+. Also paid with debit card.
After receiving his monthly bank statement he noticed he was charged $25 overdraft fees for each of the above transactions. With a phone call and a visit to his bank he found out how they processed his transactions. Debits first, largest to smallest and then credits.
1. Original balance of $100+
2. $150+ (Above balance was applied to this debit leaving his balance at -$50ish (charged $25 overdraft fee)
3-5. $10-$25 (3 separate $25 overdraft charges)
6. Payroll check credited to his account.
He was told new banking rules allowed them to now process transactions this way. They did however refund his overdraft charges. Tell me that's not bullshit. I fucking hate banks.


Oh yes... my bank has tried pulling crap like this, and I believe there was/is a class action lawsuit against them for similar dishonest practices. I've unfortunately been with my particular shitty ass bank for over 10 yrs, and they've tried to slip in monthly checking charges under my nose, along with an annual credit card fee for a card that is not supposed to have any fees whatsoever as long as I use it a least once a year, and they have REALLY pissed me off when they tried to charge me for some bullshit "credit protection plan" that I never signed up for, and I had to yell at them to take those charges off, which they did. Don't even get me started on the BoA credit card I once had. I think I told the story on VS somewhere... I ripped them a new one when they tried to jack my rate up from zero percent to 29.9 because my mailed payment was somehow "lost." I'd never cursed over the phone so much, EVAR. Ah, good times. Dump your bank for a credit union!

A friend told me this story a few months back. To the best of my recollection this is how it went.

Fri - He had an account balance of $100+
Fri - ATM deposit of a payroll check for $1200+.
Sat - 3 separate transaction all between $10-$25. Paid with his debit card.
Sat - 4th transaction was $150+. Also paid with debit card.

After receiving his monthly bank statement he noticed he was charged $25 overdraft fees for each of the above transactions. With a phone call and a visit to his bank he found out how they processed his transactions. Debits first, largest to smallest and then credits.

1. Original balance of $100+
2. $150+ (Above balance was applied to this debit leaving his balance at -$50ish (charged $25 overdraft fee)
3-5. $10-$25 (3 separate $25 overdraft charges)
6. Payroll check credited to his account.

He was told new banking rules allowed them to now process transactions this way. Tell me that's not bullshit. I fucking hate banks. They did however refund his overdraft charges.

"If my sons did not want wars, there would be none." - Gutle Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschilds wife.

-

"I am one of those who do not believe the national debt is a national blessing... it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country."

Andrew Jackson, Letter to L. H. Coleman of Warrenton, N.C., 29 April 1824

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"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had mens views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Woodrow Wilson, The New Freedom (1913), Doubleday

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"From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Winston Churchill, "Zionism versus Bolshevism", Illustrated Sunday Herald (London), February 8, 1920, pg. 5

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"The people must be helped to think naturally about money. They must be told what it is, and what makes it money, and what are the possible tricks of the present system which put nations and peoples under control of the few."

Henry Ford, My Life and Work, Doubleday, Page & Company, 1922

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"I am afraid that the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create and destroy money. The amount of money in existence varies only with the action of the banks in increasing or decreasing deposits and bank purchases. Every loan, overdraft or bank purchase creates a deposit, and every repayment or bank sale destroys a deposit. And they who control the credit of a nation, direct the policy of Governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."

Reginald McKenna, a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, addressing the shareholders as Chairman of the Midland Bank, at the Annual General Meeting in January 1924.

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"The present Federal Reserve System is a flagrant case of the Governments conferring a special privilege upon bankers. The Government hands to the banks its credit, at virtually no cost to the banks, to be loaned out by the bankers for their own private profit. Still worse, however, is the fact that it gives the bankers practically complete control of the amount of money that shall be in circulation. Not one dollar of these Federal Reserve notes gets into circulation without being borrowed into circulation and without someone paying interest to some bank to keep it circulating. Our present money system is a debt money system. Before a dollar can circulate, a debt must be created. Such a system assumes that you can borrow yourself out of debt."

Willis A. Overholser, A short review and analysis of the history of money in the United States, with an introduction to the current money problem (1936), p. 56

>> ^solution666:
I'm currently trying this method.. i had only overdrawn 12.52 because of bank fees in a bank account I never used, and was notified months later that the US Bank fees had grown to an astonishing $370.00. They wanted to settle the matter for $100, so I sucked up my pride and walked in with a $100 bill.. but for some reason they couldn't pull up the account.
I made a complaint to the bank, no call was returned. I made a second attempt to pay it a couple weeks later, but they had sold the account after adding another $370 in fees.. how nice.
Now, I'm contacted by a collection agency wanting $1012.00., so I immediately made a small claims suit to US Bank to resolve the issue.
No response yet...


--------------------------------------------
SUCCESS!!!
The Bank took their sweet-ass time, but called me back wanting to withdraw the collection agency, remove the history from the credit bureaus, and settle for the minimal amount again. So.. THIS METHOD DOES WORK. THANK YOU!
BTW.. IT DOESN'T JUST COST 25 BUCKS OR WHATEVER TO FILE THESE SMALL CLAIMS SUITS. IT COST ME $55 TO FILE IT AT COURT, PLUS $40 TO HAVE THE PAPERS DELIVERED.

Have you ever thought about keeping a register like the old days? I work at a bank and deal with customers who overdraft their account everyday and it is mostly because they don't keep track of what they have. Let's let the internet do it or an automated phone system do it. Guess what people, that way can't tell if you wrote checks that haven't cleared. It's only as useful as the information it's given. Use a register please! And to those who do overdraft, don't come asking for fee reversals when you go to the boat or a bar and overdraw, that just shows no responsibility at all.

I look at every customer on a case by case basis when I deal with fees. I realize things happen sometimes and most of the time they don't keep a register. Had they, about 80% of the overdrafts wouldn't happen. It's NOT a bank error. It's user error. You swipe that card, you know how much money is in your account. We are not the bank police. Get a register.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything but too many people keep swiping and authorizing transactions with their debit card and it gets to be a pain in the ass to deal with.

And that's how America fails. American banks, specifically.

>> ^potchi79:
Fantastic. I will seriously consider trying this if it ever happens to me. I'm already fed up with their ridiculous $10 fee for transferring money from savings when I overdraw my checking. It should be free unless I totally overdraw all accounts. That's what I thought the ODP was for.
Of course, every time they have to transfer money, a guy has to go into a vault somewhere and remove the cash and then drive it to another vault and put it in. I mean, that's how banks work right? That's why all the BS charges; to pay for labor, right?


Yeah, we do.

>> ^omnistegan:
I had some pretty ridiculous fees about a year back. It was on an Internet purchase and when PayPal reached for the money from my account, PayPal was declined and even though no money left my account, I was charged an overdraft. PayPal automatically retried the transaction 3 more times and each one incurred a charge. I believe each charge was $30 CDN.
Needless to say, I was unimpressed. I was living at home at the time so my father went into the bank and threatened to pull his saving account if they didn't reverse the charge.


Holy shit, I've had something like this happen to me as well...a purchase wasn't actually processed until over TWO WEEKS after I ordered something, and then a more recent purchase was turned down due to insufficient funds a day later because of the other purchase not processing for whatever reason. This gave me an overdraft, and then a few days later the system automatically tried again and I got ANOTHER fee. My next paycheck disappeared almost completely as soon as I got it, I was unbelievably pissed but didn't know of anything I could do about it. I tried complaining to the bank and they just said "well that's how it works, we're really sorry for the inconvenience, blah blah blah."

Shit happened in Spring semester too, and money's always really tight then, so it was a huge pain in the ass.

God damn, I hate overdraft fees. I went a few bucks over because the fucking system was messing up and showing me negative funds right after putting in 120 bucks (literally, I waited a few days to check the balance, and it said I had NEGATIVE money in there when I had about 6 bucks in before the deposit, and didn't use the account at all until I checked it after the funds got put in). I decided to just keep careful track of it and only spent what I thought was 115 of the 126 bucks in there...turns out I forgot to take into account a few of the ATM use charges, and somehow I ended up with a net balance of NEGATIVE 138 dollars due to overdraft fees. On top of that, they then pulled some cash out of my Dad's account to bring it up to zero WITHOUT ASKING HIM ABOUT IT because he helped me set up the account before I headed off to college, so his name was on it. After that, my dad had them shut the account down, but now I don't have any sort of record of the goddamn shenanigans, so I couldn't do anything about it even if I wanted to (this happened in December this past year).