thanks for the response my friend.
though you are still using bullet form..ewww.

understand i use the term gnostic to give people a reference point,but that is all.
i am not ritualized like a sophian or strict adherence like a rosacrucian,but i would still be considered an apostate by the church...any church.

your response was long and the first half just reiterated me being a gnostic but i am what some may consider a "christian" gnostic.
so i dont see god as a failure nor evil.
i view god very much like the trinity.
father,son,holy ghost
or..
mind,body,spirit.
both work fine.
also if you changed the word "matter" to represent "ego"
then you would be closer to how i view the battle of "good" vs "evil"
i would say it is ego vs spirit.
you would say god vs devil,but we would be saying the same things.

the inherent differences in our philosophy are simply this:
internalization.
externalization.
i believe the teachings of christ (and others) hold the key to free ourselves from the ego (which is the ultimate liar).salvation starts when we realize we are spiritual beings with the spark of the divine.the creator if you will.spirit,soul,chi work also and that the ego seeks to dominate the spirit,pulling us ever further from our true self and our creator.(indivisible btw).

you view this dichotomy in a totally different light.jesus/god are outside.seperate and only through humility and acceptance that christ is lord and savior and died for your sins can you (or anybody) achieve salvation.(be saved)

so when you ask if i believe christ was savior i would answer yes..most certainly,but i come to that conclusion by a different path and different tools.
yet we both use the bible.
pretty neat huh?
but you ONLY use the bible as your authority and that is fine but i tend to use..well...everything..but thats another conversation.

so now we come to what do i tell these lost and broken people who have experienced a crisis of faith.
well...
i dont attack their religion.
i allow them to talk and let that spike of uncertainty bubble to the surface so i can get a better look at it.if i am going to help anyone i have to know where the pain is yes?

you have to realize that the majority of the people i deal with came from very strict,authoritarian and fundamentalist families.they were usually sheltered from the real world (not always a bad thing) and the culture shock alone is a trauma in itself and many times the parents are not exactly curious people but their children are (or the ones that came to me).

the first thing i do is hand them a scofield study bible (i have a stack of them) and tell them to read JUST the words of jesus and get back to me when they are ready.scofield has all the words of jesus highlighted in pink,cant miss em.

now you may ask "why would enoch do that"?
simple.many religions have a long LOOOONG list of doctrine and dogma by having that person read just the words of jesus we get to cut 80% of that crap out and focus on the words of jesus.

there have been a few times that is all i have had to do.set them on a path that is simple and not so laden with hail mary's and guilt and 'supposed" to's.

baptists are the ones where i have to address sin.
they read the bible and they think they understand sin.
oh hell no.they dont have a clue and while there are some great passages in the bible that address sin..something gets lost in translation sometimes and the church does not help.

here is what "sin" actually is.this may not sound biblical but it actually is.jesus spoke of it often.
sin is when you KNOW/FEEL something is wrong and you CHOOSE to do it anyways.

and dont get me started on "original sin" utter nonsense that piece of garbage.the church was unable to make its case centuries ago and still has failed to make the case for original sin.
i suspect you disagree...thats ok but dont engage me on this one.i aint budging.

i mean.
what do you tell a 22 yr old boy who is gay that god has not forsaken him?
that he is not some abomination?
that his father is wrong for beating him with a pipe in a rage and throwing him out of the only house he has ever known?
how can this boy who was raised in a god fearing house believe for a second that god loves him when according to the bible he would not?raised to believe god was not only all-knowing but all-loving except him.

well you point to the scofield bible and ask that boy to find a verse where jesus says he hates fags.thats what you do.
because it jesus doesnt say that.

or the girl who was raped and the family convinced her it was her fault because she had sinned against god and that was her punishment.

or one of my most precious whose family member had molested her for years and when she finally got the courage to say something about it only to be told to shut up.that she was a liar (not even possible with this girl) and again...her fault and punishment from god.

i could go on and on and on.

what i do for these very special people is get them to understand they are spirit.
that they have a spark of the creator (made in "his" image) and that spark is their true selves.
and to cherish that spark.
i show them love.
true love of the spiritual kind.the altruistic love our spirits crave to give and receive.
that it is possible to love themselves and to forgive those who rejected them.judged them and forsook them.
i teach them the power of forgiveness.
to forgive themselves..for to forgive yourself you first have to KNOW yourself and to do that...well..you have to swim through a river of your own shit to truly know yourself.
i teach them to be free.
and in the doing they become free to love others as openly and honestly as they were meant to and to understand that many people,most actually,do not understand the true gift jesus gave us:love and forgiveness=freedom.

i do not use dogma nor doctrine to teach these things.
i do not seek these people out,they find me and my obligation is to honor that path they found to me as the will of the creator.
some have needed a room to stay and heal their wounds.
i give that place of security for them.( i do this for addicts also)
i do not charge money for i do not consider helping another human being out to find themselves a service but rather a kindness in recognizing another spirit.
and here is the neat part that has always tickled me:i have never wanted for anything.car dies? i get gifted a new one a week later.
short on the electric bill? i find a lottery ticket with almost the exact amount i needed.
needed a vacation to go back home?
friend offers out of the blue to buy me a plane ticket.

a few that i have helped went back to the church.
one woman i counseled for 12 yrs (really abusive husband) who is now a devout baptist like you!
aaand she is studying at a bible college,which of course i have to mess with her cuz they dont allow women to perform mass but i do help with her homework sometimes.

ok..now im just rambling.
it is late and im stupid tired but i wanted to respond before i went to bed.busy day tomorrow.
hope this gives you a clearer picture.not gonna proof read so it may just be gibberish.
in any case..
always a pleasure my friend.

I love the reason given "hey, I wanted to marry more than one woman but I couldn't" - who says gamers are maladjusted?

"state my perspective from a position of informed certitude".

I'd say that's the problem right there. The black and white thinking of someone much more on the conservative end of things than I think you are admitting to.

I do appreciate you wanting more facts. However, you didn't wait for them before opining.

I think the main point was -- why do you need any facts at all about this woman? It's one woman who gave one print interview who ended up smeared on national television. And you have soooo many opinions about her lack of character based on a few minutes of video.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8392763

Just past midnight on Thursday the argument began between employee 31-year old Rayon McIntosh and two friends, a 24-year-woman from Queens whose family ask we not use her name and 24-year-old Rachel Edwards of Brooklyn.

It escalates to where one of the women slaps McIntosh in the face.

He retreats, as one woman climbs over the counter and the other walks around.

They both confront him when he appears with a large pipe. He starts swinging.

McIntosh reportedly served time in prison for manslaughter faces felony assault and weapons charges.

Both women are being charged with menacing and trespass.

...
Both women were hospitalized, one with a fractured skull and broken arm. The other had a laceration.

Meh. She ugly.

>> ^bareboards2:

Not misogynistic -- just reflective of our culture that demands women look a certain way.
That woman isn't ugly. She just isn't. She's in the normal range of humanity, and she is making faces. Faces that you label as "ugly." But she isn't a barbie doll, controlling her face to meet cultural expectations. Like Japanese women, who cover their mouths when they laugh.
I don't really want to get into a big kerfuffle here. I have learned in my tenure here on the Sift that the vast majority of men on the Sift are not attuned to the cultural environment they live in, how women's images are controlled to meet certain expectations.
I mean honestly -- think about all the David Spades and Kevin Jameses and even George Costanzas there are out there in the media -- just normal guys, looking normal. The ranks are legion. Now name for me women who match their general attractiveness.
I mean, really. Next time you watch any movie or TV show. Pay attention to the relative diversity allowed in shapes and sizes for the men, and how limited the palette is of women.
Exhibit #1. http://videosift.com/video/He-Said-She-Said-un-romantic-comedy
Neither of those guys are particularly attractive, and certainly the heavy set guy is even less so, on any objective scale. The women? Much much much better looking than the men. This happens all the time, everywhere in the media.
I love the way that woman looks in this vid. She is lively, alive, with a point of view that has nothing to do with "looking good" for male consumption.
Anyway. Blah blah. Sorry to go on.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I suspect.

>> ^budzos:
I hope you're not trying to say my comment was misogynistic. I'm talking about the one woman... she is ugly and makes it worse with her faces. The other women look fine. The woman is particularly ugly. The men, not so.
The whole video is about daggering in cartoon world so I guess that's why every single movement is sexual.
Here's the other Major Lazer video from the same director, where he makes explicit his fetish for really ugly women:

Not misogynistic -- just reflective of our culture that demands women look a certain way.

That woman isn't ugly. She just isn't. She's in the normal range of humanity, and she is making faces. Faces that you label as "ugly." But she isn't a barbie doll, controlling her face to meet cultural expectations. Like Japanese women, who cover their mouths when they laugh.

I don't really want to get into a big kerfuffle here. I have learned in my tenure here on the Sift that the vast majority of men on the Sift are not attuned to the cultural environment they live in, how women's images are controlled to meet certain expectations.

I mean honestly -- think about all the David Spades and Kevin Jameses and even George Costanzas there are out there in the media -- just normal guys, looking normal. The ranks are legion. Now name for me women who match their general attractiveness.

I mean, really. Next time you watch any movie or TV show. Pay attention to the relative diversity allowed in shapes and sizes for the men, and how limited the palette is of women.

Exhibit #1. http://videosift.com/video/He-Said-She-Said-un-romantic-comedy

Neither of those guys are particularly attractive, and certainly the heavy set guy is even less so, on any objective scale. The women? Much much much better looking than the men. This happens all the time, everywhere in the media.

I love the way that woman looks in this vid. She is lively, alive, with a point of view that has nothing to do with "looking good" for male consumption.

Anyway. Blah blah. Sorry to go on.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I suspect.



>> ^budzos:

I hope you're not trying to say my comment was misogynistic. I'm talking about the one woman... she is ugly and makes it worse with her faces. The other women look fine. The woman is particularly ugly. The men, not so.
The whole video is about daggering in cartoon world so I guess that's why every single movement is sexual.
Here's the other Major Lazer video from the same director, where he makes explicit his fetish for really ugly women:

I hope you're not trying to say my comment was misogynistic. I'm talking about the one woman... she is ugly and makes it worse with her faces. The other women look fine. The woman is particularly ugly. The men, not so.

The whole video is about daggering in cartoon world so I guess that's why every single movement is sexual.

Here's the other Major Lazer video from the same director, where he makes explicit his fetish for really ugly women:

http://vimeo.com/7652564

>> ^bareboards2:

Not a single word for how ugly the men are?
I rather liked that the women looked like people and not Barbie dolls.
Didn't much care for how every single movement was sexualized, unlike for the men. But hey. I'll take the good things where I can find them.

>> ^budzos:
That chick in the screenshot is fucking fug and makes the ugliest faces throughout the video.
The director of this (Chris Wareheim I think?) seems to love ugly things.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Louis, CK, cutting people off, traffic, sex, angry, hate, one woman, zero women, no sex' to 'Louis CK, cutting people off, traffic, sex, angry, hate, one woman, zero women, no sex' - edited by xxovercastxx

I believe that quote's about not forgiving someone (rather than being bitter), but the sentiment still holds.

>> ^ponceleon:

>> ^Sagemind:
Talk about biting off more than you can chew!
Thanks Westboro for bringing the party!

Seriously! They clearly didn't know who they were fucking with that day.
Loved it. Pure peaceful overwhelming and loving protest. Those bitter, hate-filled fucks. I'm comforted by a line from Carrie Fischer's one-woman-show, "bitterness is like you drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."

>> ^Sagemind:

Talk about biting off more than you can chew!
Thanks Westboro for bringing the party!


Seriously! They clearly didn't know who they were fucking with that day.

Loved it. Pure peaceful overwhelming and loving protest. Those bitter, hate-filled fucks. I'm comforted by a line from Carrie Fischer's one-woman-show, "bitterness is like you drinking poison and expecting the other person to die."

How can so much crazy be contained inside of one woman?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'gorillaz, feel, good, inc, cover, one, woman, music, talent' to 'gorillaz, feel, good, inc, cover, one, woman, music, talent, looping' - edited by dystopianfuturetoday

>> ^direpickle:

>> ^DerHasisttot:
Having had to study Puritans, reading 1000+ pages of and about Puritans, written a paper, tests, and passing two oral exams involving Puritans, I think I can say with a measure of informed certainty that Puritans are in essence what we call today right-wing fundamentalist fascists.
They were persecuted for what they believed because they wanted to make it the standard; and what they believed was idiotic. For example, one woman drowned her child because it became unbearable to her to not know if she was going to heaven or hell, wanting the certainty of hell, which technically wasn't even certain for her under puritan belief even after the murder. If even other 17th-century christians don't want anything to do with your ideas, your ideas aren't good.
And if I have to read one more text about "grace vs. works" I'm gonna cut a bitch (figuratively).

Grace taste!
Works filling!


*Not sure* *slighty scratches a bitch*

>> ^DerHasisttot:

Having had to study Puritans, reading 1000+ pages of and about Puritans, written a paper, tests, and passing two oral exams involving Puritans, I think I can say with a measure of informed certainty that Puritans are in essence what we call today right-wing fundamentalist fascists.
They were persecuted for what they believed because they wanted to make it the standard; and what they believed was idiotic. For example, one woman drowned her child because it became unbearable to her to not know if she was going to heaven or hell, wanting the certainty of hell, which technically wasn't even certain for her under puritan belief even after the murder. If even other 17th-century christians don't want anything to do with your ideas, your ideas aren't good.
And if I have to read one more text about "grace vs. works" I'm gonna cut a bitch (figuratively).


Grace taste!

Works filling!

Having had to study Puritans, reading 1000+ pages of and about Puritans, written a paper, tests, and passing two oral exams involving Puritans, I think I can say with a measure of informed certainty that Puritans are in essence what we call today right-wing fundamentalist fascists.
They were persecuted for what they believed because they wanted to make it the standard; and what they believed was idiotic. For example, one woman drowned her child because it became unbearable to her to not know if she was going to heaven or hell, wanting the certainty of hell, which technically wasn't even certain for her under puritan belief even after the murder. If even other 17th-century christians don't want anything to do with your ideas, your ideas aren't good.

And if I have to read one more text about "grace vs. works" I'm gonna cut a bitch (figuratively).