>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Classy.


Ok so...We couldn't even include Frances Folsom, Grover Cleavland's squeeze, on accounta there's only this engraved rendering, of what appears to be some ugly from all the way across the room...But the engraver may have been drunk and she's really hot-in-the-face(looks like a pure-D spinner form the engraving).
http://0.tqn.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/u/I/cleveland_wedding.jpg

Did the 22nd president of the United States employ the use of an ugly sack??

*note to self-begin drinking earlier

Read that and my general response is either "meh" or"makes sense." You're so afraid of any taxes that you can't even begin to evaluate whether they are logical and beneficial or punitive and dangerous. All you see is some Grover Norquist boogey-man.>> ^quantumushroom:

His Majesty's entire presidency has been mostly fiction, sponsored by these same propagandists posing as jouralists.
The new obamacare tax hikes, most of which slam the middle class and small businesses, are quite real.

No comment about how Reagan was actually responsible for the latest "OMG OBAMAPHONE IS SOCIALIST PROGRAM" diarrhea flooding out of Fox News?

Grover Norquist has very ulterior motives for saying the things that he does.

Also, while we're in "serious fact mode", did you know that ATR was complicit in the Abramoff scandal? Funny stuff, huh? >> ^quantumushroom:

Since we're all in such serious fact-mode, tell me, how is Obamacare's new heavy tax burden on the middle class going to help the middle class?
There's three trillion dollars in the hands of the people--also known as capital--waiting out this 4-year nightmare. The lack of job creation and investment indicate the people do not trust this administration. Nor should they.

>> ^VoodooV:
Who is he?


He's worked in Counter Terrorism (read Terrorism for the mighty) for a long long time. He was appointed by H.W. Bush to the National Security Council. He was also responsible for ignoring Saddam Husseins negotiations and concessions so we could go to war in Iraq the first time. He's just basically a shithead who has a lot of blood on his hands. Whereas Grover Norquist and that other nobody are just Tax whiners.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^VoodooV:
twice now, Ms. Hoover has attempted to make shitty arguments to Bill whenever the topic of increased taxes comes up.
The last time she was on Real Time prior to this, she asked Bill if he was willing to give up one of his cars since he advocated higher taxes for rich people (like Bill) It's a fallacy as she is appealing to fear. Oh No! Bill will be slightly less rich if he had to pay bigger taxes.
And then again, she suggests that Bill should knowingly take advantage of tax loopholes so he doesn't have to pay any tax even though he has the ability to absorb higher taxes without significantly affecting his life.
She's kind of a shithead. (and so is Grover as is self evident by this video and many others on the sift)

Yeah they're both awful but the biggest shithead on this panel is Richard Clarke...not for what he said but for who he is.


Who is he?

>> ^VoodooV:

twice now, Ms. Hoover has attempted to make shitty arguments to Bill whenever the topic of increased taxes comes up.
The last time she was on Real Time prior to this, she asked Bill if he was willing to give up one of his cars since he advocated higher taxes for rich people (like Bill) It's a fallacy as she is appealing to fear. Oh No! Bill will be slightly less rich if he had to pay bigger taxes.
And then again, she suggests that Bill should knowingly take advantage of tax loopholes so he doesn't have to pay any tax even though he has the ability to absorb higher taxes without significantly affecting his life.
She's kind of a shithead. (and so is Grover as is self evident by this video and many others on the sift)


Yeah they're both awful but the biggest shithead on this panel is Richard Clarke...not for what he said but for who he is.

twice now, Ms. Hoover has attempted to make shitty arguments to Bill whenever the topic of increased taxes comes up.

The last time she was on Real Time prior to this, she asked Bill if he was willing to give up one of his cars since he advocated higher taxes for rich people (like Bill) It's a fallacy as she is appealing to fear. Oh No! Bill will be slightly less rich if he had to pay bigger taxes.

And then again, she suggests that Bill should knowingly take advantage of tax loopholes so he doesn't have to pay any tax even though he has the ability to absorb higher taxes without significantly affecting his life.

She's kind of a shithead. (and so is Grover as is self evident by this video and many others on the sift)

I would like to strangle Grover Norquist in a bathtub.

That's not what Grover told him!

Thank you for the promote!

In reply to this comment by RedSky:
*promote

Very interesting discussion.

>> ^Phreezdryd:

What the hell kind of weird bullshit was that? He really has a hate on for teachers unions. Is it government employee unions they hate specifically?


Grover and his ilk hate unions of all kind.

The only union he cares about is the unspoken but evident union of wealth supporting wealth.

Organization is one of the only ways of defeating the control that wealth naturally maintains.

Thanks for the quality!

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Feels weird to invoke *quality on this interaction, but it should be seen.

I get the feeling Grover is a boss, not a lackey. >> ^notarobot:

Question: Who's feeding the horse?>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
We are so used to hearing Norquist propaganda filtered through the media and then again through the people who consume that media. It's interesting to hear it straight from the horses mouth. I think so highly of the patriotic millionaires for standing up to this powerful fascist. Norquist's rhetoric is brilliantly constructed and he successfully drew them into some clever traps. I wish I could have been there. This should be required viewing for anyone interested in debating plutocrats.

He takes a phone call in the middle of that?? What a douchebag!

Grover G?? WTF??

It's just mind blowing how Grover rewrites history in his mind. So many of the things we enjoy as a society now are because of government funding and the mentality that some things are more important than profit margins.

There is utterly no sense of rationality or that this guy operates in good faith. He's selling ideaology, he's selling an agenda. If this ideaology fit reality AT ALL he wouldn't have to attempt to "convince" so many people. It would be self evident. He wouldn't have to "sell" anything. The evidence would be there, but he doesn't present evidence, he presents rhetoric and wraps himself in the flag of freedom when it has absolutely ZERO to do with freedom.

This notion that wealthy people are having their freedoms infringed upon is a fantasy at best, outright deceitful at worst.

Question: Who's feeding the horse?>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

We are so used to hearing Norquist propaganda filtered through the media and then again through the people who consume that media. It's interesting to hear it straight from the horses mouth. I think so highly of the patriotic millionaires for standing up to this powerful fascist. Norquist's rhetoric is brilliantly constructed and he successfully drew them into some clever traps. I wish I could have been there. This should be required viewing for anyone interested in debating plutocrats.