Neocon is inflammatory when used to portray everyday conservative politics as extremist

Agreed.

There are splinter groups, factions, lobbys, and advocates of all stripes on both sides of the asile. But neolib is 'left' as neocon is 'right' and both are very much movements. It'll shock you, but I think the Republican party today is dominated by neolibs. They are big government tax & spenders - and that's leftist. There are precious few fiscal conservatives, and we desperately need to put a bunch of fiscal 'neocons' in charge. The problem is that neocons are cumbered with a lot of stupid right wing social voters who are myopically focused on irrelevant garbage like abortion, stem cells, gay rights, and all that sort of stuff.

Agreed.

Frankly - I wouldn't care if we elected a President that legalized drugs, legalized gay marriage, loved abortion, and shot stem cells out of fire hoses. If he was a true FISCAL CONSERVATIVE who would balance the budget, reduce the size of the federal government, and put our spending in the black then I'd vote for them without thinking once.

Agreed, although we'd probably disagree on exactly how to reduce the size of government.

Yeah - and Madcow, Olbermann & left wing pundits are painting average citizens as right wing nut-jobs just because they are protesting Obama's huge deficit spending & other leftist politics.

Disagree. They are definitely inflammatory but from what I've seen on the sift, they tend to focus on the nut-jobs and on how they are protesting. It's better for ratings.

How many vids have shown up on the sift that lambaste the protesters, call them nazis, and otherwise impugn the free political speech of people who lean right? A lot. Pot - meet kettle.

Again, the vids not so much, it wouldn't be interesting. Comments on the other hand, yeah there is a lot of name-calling. Not nice, but not attacking free speech. As long as you aren't calling for banning or silencing the other (admittedly there is some of that, which I don't agree with either), I see it as merely the right to show your disagreement. As I said before, your use of neolib, well thats just something I have to get used to. (Although I still don't think it has the intended effect of countering the use of neocon.)

I still think the term neolib is inflammatory as opposed to balancing out the misuse of neocon

Neocon is inflammatory when used to portray everyday conservative politics as extremist. The left has no grounds to take umbrage when the tactic boomerangs and they are painted as the extremists. That's the zeitgeist.

I don't see any evidence that there is a unified liberal movement with those ideas as part of its platform. That's how you see it because you conceive of yourself as being opposed to them.

Well - I never said they were one unified movement. They are a philosophy and a political point of view. There isn't one 'unified movement' for the neocons either. There are splinter groups, factions, lobbys, and advocates of all stripes on both sides of the asile. But neolib is 'left' as neocon is 'right' and both are very much movements. It'll shock you, but I think the Republican party today is dominated by neolibs. They are big government tax & spenders - and that's leftist. There are precious few fiscal conservatives, and we desperately need to put a bunch of fiscal 'neocons' in charge. The problem is that neocons are cumbered with a lot of stupid right wing social voters who are myopically focused on irrelevant garbage like abortion, stem cells, gay rights, and all that sort of stuff.

Frankly - I wouldn't care if we elected a President that legalized drugs, legalized gay marriage, loved abortion, and shot stem cells out of fire hoses. If he was a true FISCAL CONSERVATIVE who would balance the budget, reduce the size of the federal government, and put our spending in the black then I'd vote for them without thinking once.

But if you listen to those pundits, they paint me and anyone that dislikes them with the same brush, we're all zombies for Obama, communists, or "neolibs."

Yeah - and Madcow, Olbermann & left wing pundits are painting average citizens as right wing nut-jobs just because they are protesting Obama's huge deficit spending & other leftist politics. Go figure... How many vids have shown up on the sift that lambaste the protesters, call them nazis, and otherwise impugn the free political speech of people who lean right? A lot. Pot - meet kettle.

If Japanese anime is to be believed, all sake is served hot and sipped from a small cup or bowl that is repeatedly refilled from a larger pitcher, while you are sitting naked in hot spring surrounded by women with gravity defying watermelon sized breasts, while peeping toms fire blood out of their noses like fire hoses. But that's only if you want to be authentic.

This is Twiddles. His favorite activity is to fill himself up with water and pretend he is a fire hose. His pet peeve is his adopted "little" brother Ebony.

Oh Jeebus... ROTFL!

In reply to this comment by schmawy:
These people need to be washed down with a fire-hose.

These people need to be washed down with a fire-hose.

I think only the die hard Bushies and neo-con republicans think Ron Paul's view on the Iraq war is radical. It's his other views many people take exception to and call radical.

Ron Paul's views would be great if we lived in a society where most everyone did the right thing and worked for the common good of society. I don't think we live in such a society. If the market were truly free as Ron Paul suggests it should be, it would be a race by the major corporations to see who could create the biggest monopoly. The argument is that competition will rise up, but it's pretty hard for competition to be created when some other company controls all the infrastructure. You think AT&T is going to let anyone else use it's phone lines? The only reason the are competing companies to AT&T right now is because they're forced to share their lines with other companies, by *gasp* the federal government.

The other part is civil rights, Ron Paul himself has said he doesn't think the courts should have had anything to do with the civil rights movement, instead suggesting the changes should have been made locally. Locally?! Locally they were busy beating the crap out of peaceful protesters, turning fire hoses and dogs on them for daring to say they deserved equal treatment. How long was that supposed to go on until something happened locally?

The federal government is there to step in when state and/or local systems of government fail to take action or can't in the interests of citizens well being. Just as the legislative, executive and judicial branches of the federal government act as a check and balance against each other, so do the state governments and the federal government act as a check and balance against each other. If you neuter the federal government as Ron Paul suggests you destroy the ability for the federal government to act as a check on the state governments.

I'm not suggesting our current system is perfect, but its far from completely defunct. From my stand point a few things have happened, one ideological view took control of the federal government. Things went to shit in a hand basket and now the country has collectively shifted it away from ideology. The executive branch was granted/took way too much power, I see this swinging back to a state of normalcy. Bush is already effectively a lame duck president, though he still wields his "executive privilege" like a shield. I think trying to fix what we have is a much more sensible solution than essentially scrapping everything.

I agree with Ron Paul on Iraq and I think history does indeed show that he was and is right about it. Not just with the outcome of Iraq, but the outcome of similar wars and the history of the region. I don't agree with him on other issues, I feel history has proven him wrong in that it has taken a strong federal government to push us past important mile stones as a nation.

Fair enough. It seems like I'm constantly pissing people off on this site. I guess I should chill out a bit.

So you're a comic? Are you in LA? Do you have any of your stuff online?

-dft

-

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
Pax,

I didn't see your response until just now. I guess I was too busy getting shot down from your friends and supporters. lol. First off, obviously I do not think you are a Klan member, that was uncalled for and I do apologize for making that reference. I do now see the irony in that statement, however, as an "outsider" looking in (which is exactly what I am) it did offend me. I do not know you and how your humor works and since the post WAS serious and WAS very offensive, when I read your comment I was like, WTF??

I am not overly sensitive and I CAN take a joke... Duh.. Jokes and humor are what keep my rent and bills paid. (Not to mention the loads of groceries I purchase) I understand YOUR point and I respect and completely AGREE. I just didn't think it was the best way to express it. However, I am pretty sure he HAS experienced the racism he was spitting. This does NOT justify any of the hate that was coming out of his mouth, not one bit. But sadly, sometimes people tend to spit out the hurt they have experienced. Its NOT a justification, but its a sad fact. He was wrong. There was NOTHING right about what he said, period. I just felt your comment wasn't appropriate in that context.
Its my opinion.

Race relations are such a tough line to attempt to cross. Open dialogue is the source to at least having an open playing field where all of us can express and connect and learn to appreciate and understand each other. I guess I didn't feel that statement was the most welcoming way to start one. However, if my "crying and babying" as many are making my response to be, has potentially started one, good. I have no problem if people want to call me stupid and say I am "wank wank wanking." I do however, have a problem when I offend someone, and I am sorry for making my rant specifically directed to you in a negative way.

Enjoy your day.
Ercell.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Pax,

I didn't see your response until just now. I guess I was too busy getting shot down from your friends and supporters. lol. First off, obviously I do not think you are a Klan member, that was uncalled for and I do apologize for making that reference. I do now see the irony in that statement, however, as an "outsider" looking in (which is exactly what I am) it did offend me. I do not know you and how your humor works and since the post WAS serious and WAS very offensive, when I read your comment I was like, WTF??

I am not overly sensitive and I CAN take a joke... Duh.. Jokes and humor are what keep my rent and bills paid. (Not to mention the loads of groceries I purchase) I understand YOUR point and I respect and completely AGREE. I just didn't think it was the best way to express it. However, I am pretty sure he HAS experienced the racism he was spitting. This does NOT justify any of the hate that was coming out of his mouth, not one bit. But sadly, sometimes people tend to spit out the hurt they have experienced. Its NOT a justification, but its a sad fact. He was wrong. There was NOTHING right about what he said, period. I just felt your comment wasn't appropriate in that context.
Its my opinion.

Race relations are such a tough line to attempt to cross. Open dialogue is the source to at least having an open playing field where all of us can express and connect and learn to appreciate and understand each other. I guess I didn't feel that statement was the most welcoming way to start one. However, if my "crying and babying" as many are making my response to be, has potentially started one, good. I have no problem if people want to call me stupid and say I am "wank wank wanking." I do however, have a problem when I offend someone, and I am sorry for making my rant specifically directed to you in a negative way.

Enjoy your day.
Ercell.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Nope. Was not a verbal smack down nor me being overly hypersensitive. Its interesting that its okay to "joke" as you put it in a racist way and then say I have my "panties in a bunch" and should enjoy the joke since I am an aspiring comic. Thats bogus. I am not sure what your race is, but as a black man, who is reminded daily of this fact, I find its easy for those who do not have the same history to write off this kind of a reaction as going too far and I should calm down and take a joke. Funny is funny. Offensive is offensive. There are certain things, racially, that ARE very funny. Then there are comments, however their intent may have been, that come off hurtful and cruel. There is nothing funny about being sprayed with water in the context Dystopian used it. Nothing. Yes, making the Klan reference was going too far, I can admit and own that. You are striking me down for responding and saying its people like me that really "undercut the dialogue" here, but I must say, dialogue is exactly what is happening. I was not meaning to be hurtful or cruel, but the comments made were inappropriate. I understand this site is a huge club and since I have not posted enough vids or commented enough or upvoted and so forth I do have the same relationships many of you have. However, friend or not, what he said was offensive to me. Period. Everyone expresses their opinions left and right, which I try to read and so forth when I am on here, so that was me expressing my exact feelings at that moment. I highly doubt Dystopian meant any harm, however, not meaning harm still does not justify the remark and comment he made. I appreciate your words and thoughts, they are welcome anytime.

In reply to this comment by budzos:
Was that your idea of a verbal smackdown? Wow, you really got your panties in a bunch. Yes it's a racist thing to say, but the guy in the video is clearly a hypocritical, racist piece of crap, while Dystopian was pretty obviously making a joke. Funny that an aspiring stand-up would miss a point so broadly made. People like you really undercut the dialogue with your hypersensitivity and need to point everyone out as some kind of secret Klan member, which is really just you playing out some heroic fantasy.

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Was that your idea of a verbal smackdown? Wow, you really got your panties in a bunch. Yes it's a racist thing to say, but the guy in the video is clearly a hypocritical, racist piece of crap, while Dystopian was pretty obviously making a joke. Funny that an aspiring stand-up would miss a point so broadly made. People like you really undercut the dialogue with your hypersensitivity and need to point everyone out as some kind of secret Klan member, which is really just you playing out some heroic fantasy.

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

For ercel and anyone else who doesn't understand irony, let me translate my comment.

'Perhaps this gentleman would better understand the racism he spouts if he were to experience it himself'

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

I'm sorry anyone missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?

I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. This guy allows non-blacks to say "See, they're racist too!" in order to justify their own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat (as I've spoke about at great length on this site) is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with anyone. No harm intended.

PAX

I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!