this is why i'm blown the fuck away regarding why people think adding a public health care option would be bad. "oh noes socialism!"

fuck that. police is socialized, fire is socialized, why not health care? "i don't want to pay taxes for Joe who does something stupid and causes injury to himself." but you sure as fuck want the fire dept to put out the fire Joe caused because he doesn't know how to deep-fry a turkey. it just doesn't make any goddamned sense.

i'd much rather pay my taxes and know that if i snap my ankle walking down the icy steps on my way to work that i can go to a hospital, get it taken care of and move on with life.
just the same way as i currently know that if a fire starts up in my apartment complex, i can count on the fire department to show up and put it out.

imagine if every time you called the police or fire departments they made you sit in a waiting room and fill out a form, then 3 hours later when they're ready to see you they fix the problem and send you home with a bill.

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related to the video, they really should have written in a contingency plan if they do have an out-of-city-limits/out-of-service-area caveat. something to the effect of "$75/year to be covered without question, $5,000 fine for services rendered if you're not part of the 'extended service' program."

either way, put out the fucking fire and deal with the monetary politics afterwards.

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edit: holy shit @ the TYT video. i've never seen Cenk that angry before.

Prayer works better! Who needs police and fire departments?!

>> ^qua
ntumushroom:
Goofus should've been allowed to be billed later...even 5 grand would be less than losing the house.

I actually agree with this. They should have still offered to put the fire out, and charge him some sort of (larger than $75) fee.

I think the better solution though is to stick with the normal way this is done -- it's baked into your local taxes, and everyone who needs a house fire put out, gets it.

Having this guy keep his house and get handed a $5K bill would be better than what happened, but I dunno why we should create this kind of foolishness in the first place.

How much would it have raised taxes for them to simply extend coverage to everyone, like a normal county? A paltry 13 cents per household in property taxes.

More here: http://videosift.com/video/Political-Reaction-Pay-to-Spray-Fire-Department

F this home owner..F the fire department, and F that city for such a stupid privatization (zomg that's a word! I just spell checked it) . As someone who lives in this country, on this planet..I would SUE them for allowing all that crap to burn further polluting what little clean air we have left!

If there is a major fire, it doesn't matter who has paid what, you put it out so it doesn't do any further damage and THEN figure things out! Leaving that house to burn caused a ton of pollution and quite a bit of danger that it could spread or harm other people and animals. I had to laugh about the fire truck that was "waiting"..waiting for it to spread to one of the houses that have paid for fire protection. Listen, you wanna protect my house? you put his shit out BEFORE it starts setting my roof on fire thank you very much.

So a public fire department fails and the private sector gets blamed? You guys are too much.

it is my understanding from listening to the video that the fee applies to fire protection services to those living outside of city limits. While it does seem 'assholish' of the city to do, it makes some amount of sense to charge for a service to someone who is outside the normal fire department service range. The city provides the fire department services to those who are within the city limits as part of the peoples tax money, and since the city does not receive money from those who live outside the limits, they have to cover the cost somehow.

Don't get me wrong, I think that this totally sucks, but its more of a problem of not having the right answer to a problem. There has to be a better way to solve the cost issue other than an "insurance" plan with the fire department.

Goofus should've been allowed to be billed later...even 5 grand would be less than losing the house. BTW what kind of insurance company allows its customers to NOT have fire insurance (besides igloos)?

P.S. The fire department in question is government-run, not private for-hire (which would gladly have taken the money).

And this is why you don't make such a basic service an option. If everyone pays, it'll be cheaper for everyone, better funded and ultimately better fire-protection from everyone. The fact they waited for the neighbor's yard to catch fire is insane, he paid, they were there it should have never caught fire in the first place. As others mentioned if they're going to have this sort of system in place just charge those who don't pay a few hundred dollars when they need to come out. It still punishes the dumb-asses that didn't pay for it in the first place but its not so vindictive and cruel that it allows for all of someone's possessions to burn up, including their pets, while the fire department sit there and watches.

Issue, if you go watch the video radx linked you see the guy 1) Just pain forgot and 2) Offered to pay on the spot.

To create an analogy (but steering clear of a logical fallacy): Lets say you had an Emergency Room tax in the same county. You go into an ER with a shotgun wound only to find out you forgot to pay this 'tax'. You offer to pay this tax on the spot. You also have medical insurance so it's not like you're completely out of the loop for having care done. You are still refused service and die in the waiting room due to your injuries, all because you missed paying a 'tax', not your insurance.

A man next to you when you got hit was hit by buckshot himself, but paid his 'tax'. That man lives to see another day because he received life saving medical attention. It doesn't seem to matter if he had medical insurance or not, he still gets help in the ER because he, unlike you, paid this 'tax'.

So now Gene Cranick sits in a trailer on his now burned property, while his neighbor (whom, per Gene, ALSO offered to pay the firemen) still has his home. Are you trying to tell me this is right? Or even acceptable behavior?

If this 'tax' (I've been putting it in quotes since it is not and insurance policy that is paying out for damages, it's to pay for a public service therefor it is a 'tax') was so god damn important to the county why were they not hounding this guy if he forgot to pay? I know if I forget to pay my local, state, or federal taxes I'm in deep shit.

>> ^luc
ky760:

OR
• You reap what you sow. You can't ignore paying insurance year after year then expect coverage after the fact. The fire department can't set that precedent otherwise no one will pay and they'll have to shut down.

I suspect that they couldn't get the taxpayers to vote to increase their taxes countywide to pay for the service. And I'd bet dollars to donuts that this guy voted down the tax.

He admitted his son (son-in-lsw?) didn't pay the annual fee either. This is a family mentality that has been going on for years, and this guy thought he could get away with it.

I agree that this is the Tea Party mentality of raging at the gov'mint for taxing them to death, reaching into their pockets. Until they need whatever it is the gov'mint could do -- like meat inspections, help in responding to a potential disease epidemic, or whatever affects them personally.

Having said all this, it seems that the fire department should change their policy to say -- you didn't pay the annual fee? Then we will charge you the cost of the operation (as noted above) and we will slap a lien on your property and evict you if you don't pay it off in a reasonable time.

I'll bet the insurance company changes their policy, too -- that if your fire fee isn't paid, your insurance policy is invalid. Or maybe you have to show proof of payment every year or you immediately lose your insurance.

I really dislike this man and his attitude. Seems to me he should be ashamed of himself for his stupid actions.

• Poor family. They didn't have enough money to pay the firehouse insurance and now they lost their home as a result. It's a real shame.

OR

• You reap what you sow. You can't ignore paying insurance year after year then expect coverage after the fact. The fire department can't set that precedent otherwise no one will pay and they'll have to shut down.

Hmm, so does the fire department not receive any government funding?

This policy has been in effect for 20 years, so it wasn't like it was an unexpected shock. Is $50/75 per year too much to pay for emergency fire service? Is it worth the risk? If they have an a la carte system, this guy gambled and lost. Sucks to be him, but he chose to not opt-in.

That said, the fire department's policy should be to save lives, put the fire out, and worry about the billing later.

As much as I prefer smaller government, I believe all emergency services should be government services, paid for by taxes.

@lantern53 they want to privatize and dismantle everything government does.

This is what privatizing the fire department would look like. You don't pay your bill, they let your house burn.

Makes perfect sense to me. If the taxes aren't enough to pay for fire protection, then the fee needs to be covered somehow.

The most disturbing thing about this is knowing that when someone calls the fire department there, they check your payment status before moving out. Jeez, what if there was a data entry mistake or something? What if someone died?