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>> ^notarobot:

Apparently this guy hasn't seen the nutshell video.
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>> ^longde:

It just seems like you have an ax to grind with africans, and your last comments show it.
African people aren't violent warlords; but they are homophobic, dogmatic, and patently dishonest. I get it. Thanks for your contributions to this anti-stereotyping video.
Who doesn't try to put themselves in the best light? British people, atheists, and gay people -three of the most moral peoples on the planet -never do that. >> ^Deano:
>> ^longde:
I'd rather like to see you in Nairobi in their faces patronizingly asking them about their personal beliefs.

I'd be quite happy to. Though I don't see why it would have to be patronising. If you want to have an honest dialogue then those matters are going to come up and everyone should be willing to discuss them.
It would make a change from my experience in London where it's quite the opposite way around. I often encounter Nigerians who are often more than comfortable sharing their views about religion and not so subtle opinions about homosexuality. They tend to be women due to the sector I'm in and one was so pushy as to wonder what I did on a Sunday if I didn't go to church. And then followed it with "Are you gay?" She was blissfully unaware that she was putting herself in disciplinary trouble. She just didn't care.
My mate used to work at the passport office here in London which was the centre of quite a few heated political disputes in the last few years. The workforce included a bunch of really nice African guys but dodgy as hell and always pulling some scam.
This is, in my view, definitely a cultural difference. My friend is a straight arrow, very reliable and honest so the contrast between him and others (hell even myself as I like to cut corners sometimes) is more pronounced. In another country some of those behaviours (including racial bullying and generally taking the piss) might be fine but here not so much. The problem with the passport office is that they lacked leadership and strong management so everyone ran amok.
So getting back to the video, yes it's nice to challenge stereotypes but let's remove the rose-tinted spectacles at the same time. I'm sure these chaps are as super nice as they are depicted, but it IS a depiction designed to promote a charitable cause. Everyone has prejudices and blind spots, everyone can and will be an arsehole. Even after you strip away the stereotype you can't get rid of that.



Apologies for not replying promptly @longde but work has consumed most of my time over the weekend.

I have no axe to grind. I thought I had expressed myself clearly but I apologise for failing to do that. My original comment was intended to counter the somewhat rosy, unrealistic and some might say shallow depiction of African men in the video.

It's not much different from those lovely promo videos showing off everyone in their best light (anyting from the Olympics springs to mind). We intuitively KNOW the reality behind such things and my comment was merely a reminder of that. And I put the smiley face on because, no, I do not have a problem with anyone from Africa and I resent that accusation. I have plenty of experience and appreciation for people from all walks of life but I'm not afraid to call it as it is. If this video was going the other way I'd be providing counter-examples as well. I've got plenty of experience of the good and bad in people - and if you heard me rant about my Norwegian family I can only assume you'd think me anti-Scandinavian

Finally I'm a bit puzzled by your last sentence. It really doesn't make any sense to me. Perhaps you could explain. Honest question.

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It just seems like you have an ax to grind with africans, and your last comments show it.

African people aren't violent warlords; but they are homophobic, dogmatic, and patently dishonest. I get it. Thanks for your contributions to this anti-stereotyping video.

Who doesn't try to put themselves in the best light? British people, atheists, and gay people -three of the most moral peoples on the planet -never do that. >> ^Deano:

>> ^longde:
I'd rather like to see you in Nairobi in their faces patronizingly asking them about their personal beliefs.

I'd be quite happy to. Though I don't see why it would have to be patronising. If you want to have an honest dialogue then those matters are going to come up and everyone should be willing to discuss them.
It would make a change from my experience in London where it's quite the opposite way around. I often encounter Nigerians who are often more than comfortable sharing their views about religion and not so subtle opinions about homosexuality. They tend to be women due to the sector I'm in and one was so pushy as to wonder what I did on a Sunday if I didn't go to church. And then followed it with "Are you gay?" She was blissfully unaware that she was putting herself in disciplinary trouble. She just didn't care.
My mate used to work at the passport office here in London which was the centre of quite a few heated political disputes in the last few years. The workforce included a bunch of really nice African guys but dodgy as hell and always pulling some scam.
This is, in my view, definitely a cultural difference. My friend is a straight arrow, very reliable and honest so the contrast between him and others (hell even myself as I like to cut corners sometimes) is more pronounced. In another country some of those behaviours (including racial bullying and generally taking the piss) might be fine but here not so much. The problem with the passport office is that they lacked leadership and strong management so everyone ran amok.
So getting back to the video, yes it's nice to challenge stereotypes but let's remove the rose-tinted spectacles at the same time. I'm sure these chaps are as super nice as they are depicted, but it IS a depiction designed to promote a charitable cause. Everyone has prejudices and blind spots, everyone can and will be an arsehole. Even after you strip away the stereotype you can't get rid of that.

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>> ^longde:

I'll only accept that argument from vegans. The rest of us humans inflict horrible suffering on animals (or directly benefit from it) all the time. I think what the data referenced above shows is that many or most people who are sadistic fiends have once hurt animals, not the opposite, that most people who hurt animals will turn into sadistic fiends (unproven, but could be true).
What separates a cat from a cockroach? Both are animals, right? I have horribly murdered so many cockroaches and flies it's ridiculous. I knew kids who used to kick over or flood ant mounds. Lemme check facebook...yep, all psychopaths.
The reason doesn't matter if the concern is for the suffering of sentient beings, right? So, what about sport hunters? Butchers? Livestock Farmers? Chefs? You get the point. All these people inflict great pain on animals. I guess my whole extended family are closet ax murderers, since it contains sport hunters, sport fishermen, people who raise and slaughter hogs, etc.....and people who used to go to Red Lobster on weekends.
I myself don't think cats are any more entitled than hogs, deer, chickens, lobsters and cows...or flies and cockroaches. And certainly not on the same level as humans (which too many people believe). So, while I recognize that cats et al suffer, feel empathy and would never hurt any animal (I don't even like killing spiders now; even at the behest of my wife) ; I can't get as worked up over this as some of you are.

(BTW, this conversation reminds me of the Lawrence Block story "How would you like it?")
edit: except mosquitoes. >> ^Gallowflak:
>> ^longde:
I think its inhumane, but cat's aren't people. Doing this to a cat does not necessarily mean they could do it to a person, IMO.
>> ^Jinx:
Psychopath. Honestly, if you can be that cruel to an animal I don't really believe they won't do it to a human. Just a complete lack of empathy.


What does it show? That they're able to inflict horrible suffering on a creature without being halted by such measly things as compassion or empathy. An act like this is a huge warning sign that we're dealing with a morally bankrupt piece of shit, at the least, or psychopath, at the worst.
A human being without empathy who acts immorally is someone who, if rehabilitation isn't possible, the community needs to get rid of.



Yes, we all benefit from the suffering of animals, that's true, but there's not an equivalence between that and inflicting it oneself.

There's a vast difference between animals suffering as a consequence of an action that has utility and inflicting suffering for its own sake.

I'll only accept that argument from vegans. The rest of us humans inflict horrible suffering on animals (or directly benefit from it) all the time. I think what the data referenced above shows is that many or most people who are sadistic fiends have once hurt animals, not the opposite, that most people who hurt animals will turn into sadistic fiends (unproven, but could be true).

What separates a cat from a cockroach? Both are animals, right? I have horribly murdered so many cockroaches and flies it's ridiculous. I knew kids who used to kick over or flood ant mounds. Lemme check facebook...yep, all psychopaths.

The reason doesn't matter if the concern is for the suffering of sentient beings, right? So, what about sport hunters? Butchers? Livestock Farmers? Chefs? You get the point. All these people inflict great pain on animals. I guess my whole extended family are closet ax murderers, since it contains sport hunters, sport fishermen, people who raise and slaughter hogs, etc.....and people who used to go to Red Lobster on weekends.

I myself don't think cats are any more entitled than hogs, deer, chickens, lobsters and cows...or flies and cockroaches. And certainly not on the same level as humans (which too many people believe). So, while I recognize that cats et al suffer, feel empathy and would never hurt any animal (I don't even like killing spiders now; even at the behest of my wife)*; I can't get as worked up over this as some of you are.


(BTW, this conversation reminds me of the Lawrence Block story "How would you like it?")

*edit: except mosquitoes. >> ^Gallowflak:

>> ^longde:
I think its inhumane, but cat's aren't people. Doing this to a cat does not necessarily mean they could do it to a person, IMO.
>> ^Jinx:
Psychopath. Honestly, if you can be that cruel to an animal I don't really believe they won't do it to a human. Just a complete lack of empathy.


What does it show? That they're able to inflict horrible suffering on a creature without being halted by such measly things as compassion or empathy. An act like this is a huge warning sign that we're dealing with a morally bankrupt piece of shit, at the least, or psychopath, at the worst.
A human being without empathy who acts immorally is someone who, if rehabilitation isn't possible, the community needs to get rid of.

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No, it's Eva Axén from the Dario Argento horror film Suspiria, which I highly recommend, if you haven't seen it. Your profile leads me to believe you might like it.

In reply to this comment by AdrianBlack:
Is your avvy Laura Palmer?

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