Ahmadinejad threatens to remove Israel from the map. Ayatollah Khamenei does the same. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard(which reports directly to Khamenei) virtually founded and continually provides training, arms and funding to Hezbollah which it must be observed routinely attacks Israel.

I'm not trying to say Israel is some pure and innocent virgin. I'm pointing out some basic facts that are routinely denied by a great many people and I felt the need for the truth to be out there. I also fail to understand why pointing out facts like this requires anyone to come out and basically state that Israel deserves it, or at the very least that they started it and are the ones in the wrong.

It's quite possible for there to be 2 wrongs and no need to lesson the sins of either.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^acidSpine:
long. Wow it's like the only difference between Hezbollah and America is they take care of their veterans

They are even in large part foreigners to Lebanon like the Americans, being founded pre-dominantly by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and still receiving most of their support through Iran and Syria.
Also, let's not forget the racism. From Hezbollah's own description of itself:
Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is
aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the
expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when
this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace
agreements, whether separate or consolidated.
We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as
enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the
legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the
Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan,
Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the
recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.
Now re-read and remember that the 'Zionist entity' is Hezbollah's name for the entire state of Israel, and all that have any desire to see it continue to exist.


First of all, I don't think seperating the Muslim states into countries is a useful exercise when dealing with this sort of issue, since the existing states were divided up by western conquerers in times past, countries are essentialy an artificial, arbitrary construct. Muslim solidarity reigns supreme. The Jews wouldn't even have had the opportuntity to steal palestinian land had not the English occupied it beforehand.

Secondly, I can't see any racism in the quote you provided (didn't click the link cause you never know these days, could land me in guantanamo, ironic since we're talking about recently stolen land ) All it says is that Israel (zionism solidified) has been "aggressive since it's inception", built on stolen land, they want it back and all treaties drawn up by the US are bullshit and Hezbollah won't accept them. Nothing racist there.

Just an honest question here to anyone really. Why were Jews relocated to Palestine folowing WWII? Surely some existing friendly country could have taken them in. Space is clearly not an issue consideing the dimuntitive scale of the region in question. The only answer I can think of off the top of my head is that there was an express desire to reclaim the "holy land" (what God probably calls the COLOSSEUM!!!!) after 2000 odd years away.

Anyway, if it isn't clear, I'm on the Palesininan side of this debate but I feel free from any accusations of bias since I am neither a Muslim, Jew or Zionist Christian. I'm just male, middle class and white like the song but I think I have a solution if you would just hear me out.

Ok, here goes. control of the middle eastern oil fields is removed from corporate ownership and handed over part and parcel of universal arab soveringnty from western backed dictatorships including the Saudi royal family. Part of the profits from the oil will go to compensate Israeli folk for their relocation to Europe, North America, Australia, anywhere really that could accomodate for Isarelies culturaly. The govenment of Israel will liquidise all assets not essential to the re-establishment of Palestine (ie. everything but their tanks and their bombs and their guns and their bombs, whats in your head, in your head, in your head, zombie, zombie, zombie) leaving the infrastructure entact and using the profits as reparations to Palestine for 40+ years of repression. I think it would be fair that America pays Palestine a salary equal to that of the miltary aid given to Israel during their enduring occupation. Think that sounds unfair, check out the debt 3rd world countries are compelled to pay as a price for their autonomy over their former opressors.

Wow, thats about five times bigger than any other post Iv'e made on the internet ever. I hope someone reads it. Pipe dreams naturally but reality blows, suck it down.

>> ^acidSpine:

long. Wow it's like the only difference between Hezbollah and America is they take care of their veterans


They are even in large part foreigners to Lebanon like the Americans, being founded pre-dominantly by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and still receiving most of their support through Iran and Syria.

Also, let's not forget the racism. From Hezbollah's own description of itself:

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is
aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the
expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when
this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace
agreements, whether separate or consolidated.
We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as
enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the
legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the
Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan,
Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the
recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

Now re-read and remember that the 'Zionist entity' is Hezbollah's name for the entire state of Israel, and all that have any desire to see it continue to exist.

Much better for a sift - it is put in context, using the video medium. thanks.

heres some stuffs:

Iranians to mourn Neda, the "Angel of Iran", despite warning from Revolutionary Guards

Iran blames "unknown vandals" for civilian deaths

Pepe Escobar did an interesting analysis of some power shifting behind the scenes...
http://www.videosift.com/video/Iran-s-Revolutionary-Guard-stages-a-coup

While this election showed there is institutional failure in having an open democratic process in Iran, a greatly positive note is the number of Iranians that perceived the election as being an institutional failure of an open democratic process. This will grow the base of people demanding more civil rights and an election system that isn't manipulated.
Demographically Iran is perfectly situated for a youth revolution. That they will have to fight for such basic rights is sad, especially against such an entrenched oligarchy. I only hope for the best for them.

I'm not so sure about Iran being a 3rd world nation without a significant military. Okay sure its not on the same level as the United States, but its not exactly Botswana either. Also nuking Iran? Who has been saying that?

Other than that he hits on exactly what I'm afraid of, that sometime before November conditions will be created to produce an incident that will be used as an excuse to push us into war with Iran. With their revolutionary guard seemingly an unchecked force it doesn't seem like something that would be too hard to pull off.

Iran creating 'nuclear weapons' is a created narrative by the GOP and warhawks in Washington.

When the Iraq war was at its worst, the blame was not laid at the Whitehouse burdening the military with unrealistic political objectives while not providing the necessary manpower.

No the blame was laid at insurgents, Al Qaeda but most of all at the influence of Iran and it's Revolutionary Guard. Everything from providing arms to training.

So much so that a resolution was passed declaring the Revolutionary Guards as 'terrorist' organization, weak links were pulled claiming Iran's president was involved in the American embassy hostage crisis back in the 80s.

This narrative was present on and off for several years, because who better to blame for the quagmire of Iraq then America hating Iran? But the story wasn't solid because there was hardly any proof, the EFPs found bearing Iranian marking are only indicative of lucrative arms trade that is occurring now in Iraq not of a policy of sabotaging America by Iran's government.

But this was not enough so the case for Iran creating Nuclear weapons was pushed forward, "Surely" the Neocons thought "It worked with Iraq 'smoking-gun-mushroom-cloud' it will probably work here".

The reason being such a narrative would facilitate expansion of the war into another sovereign nation that happens to possess oil reserves and more importantly lie in a strategic location that would allow oil and gas pipelines to run from Central Asia (one of the last untapped through Afghanistan to the Persian Gulf).

Not because it would benefit America as a whole but because it would benefit the interests of those who possess power, politically it would justify scaling and prolonging the war as much they wish, it would also allow for long term control of strategic reserves and routes for years to come not because its a good idea but because people who are Neocons are already playing a fantasy military standoff between the US, Russia and China some 50 years ahead.

Not to mention it would be to Israeli wishes.

Remember a few months ago they tried to pull a Gulf of Tonkin scenario in the Persian Gulf. Notice how that story got promptly buried.

Iran is not stupid, its military and army cannot handle an American air assault, they will be destroyed. They know the Bush Administration wants them to make a stupid move to justify and invasion or rather a air strike assault, why else would they just isolate them and not even talk to them in diplomatic terms. The carrier groups are ready stationed in the Persian Gulf to strike at any time.

This policy is disastrous, because the current sanctions and political isolation is only worsening the situation in Iran, justifying the centralization of power under the current president due to the possibility of war. It also solidifies Arab distrust of the US and plays right into the hands of groups like Al Qaeda.

Gravel was blowing it out of proportion. That resolution was passed months ago and there still hasn't been any military action against Iran's forces outside of Iraq. It was not an authorization of the use of force against Iran. All it did was state that Iran's revolutionary guard was supporting Shia insurgents in Iraq.