>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

I'm not so fussed over Obama's agenda here. He ran his campaign with a "get rid of nukes" message mixed in. The Nobel committee gave him a peace prize for his no-nukes rhetoric. It made the NPP a stupid joke, but hey that's what they hung it on. Now conservatives are acting all amazed that he's doing it? Oh noes!
Even the reduction isn't that big a deal. He's just going back to basically the same stance that Carter and Clinton adopted. Fundamentally the policy isn't all that different from past administrations, so it isn't like this is something new and fantastic. It is stupid for conservatives to act like he's going to get rid of all nukes. It is stupid for the liberals to act like Obama has done anything significant or important. This is business as usual. Nothing to see here. Move along.


As the Daily Show pointed out he's doing the same stance that Reagan chose.

I'm not so fussed over Obama's agenda here. He ran his campaign with a "get rid of nukes" message mixed in. The Nobel committee gave him a peace prize for his no-nukes rhetoric. It made the NPP a stupid joke, but hey that's what they hung it on. Now conservatives are acting all amazed that he's doing it? Oh noes!

Even the reduction isn't that big a deal. He's just going back to basically the same stance that Carter and Clinton adopted. Fundamentally the policy isn't all that different from past administrations, so it isn't like this is something new and fantastic. It is stupid for conservatives to act like he's going to get rid of all nukes. It is stupid for the liberals to act like Obama has done anything significant or important. This is business as usual. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Is it too much to ask that people argue from the actual wording of the prize and not from their own fucking concept of what a peace prize should be? I'll quote:

"(...) and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between the nations and the abolition or reduction of standing armies and the formation and spreading of peace congresses."

If you want to keep arguing how Obama is undeserving, please tell me how he does not fulfill any of these three quite specific criteria. Also keep in mind that the NPP is to be awarded for actions during the last year, not for a lifelong achievement.

>> ^alizarin:
Let's not lose track of the real story here: Ron Paul is a blathering idiot


Idiot seems a bit of a weak goose, anyone who can finish off medical school would be unlikely to be a moron, an imbecile, or an idiot (all those terms are old school ways of referring to levels of mental retardation and are no longer really used).

When reading most of the commentary and looking over the list of other people that were also up for it, I can't help but be saddened and reminded of high school. Really, what it seems to come down to is popularity not accomplishment. If you look at the others and what they have ACTUALLY done, it is truly sad that they are passed over for the most visible candidate. In essence, that was the point of the NPP was to recognize those whos deeds would normally fade into obscurity even if they helped shape and change the lives of millions.

It saddens me tremendously to look at the list of humanitarians that might not live long enough to walk across that stage and get their 15 mins of fame.

Then some uppity black man talks about stuff like dignity, peace, empathy, pride, geneva conventions, and not killing people

His policies are what people object to, not skin melanin. There are more ways to approach 'peace' than the neolib world view accepts. Carter is a neolib, has a NPP, and his weak policies all but created modern world terrorism via Iran. Reagan was a hawk who ended the cold war through Brinkmanship & arms buildups. A Dove that created violence, and a Hawk that established peace... Clearly this whole 'peace' thing is a bit more complicated myopically pursuing neolib policies of unilateral disarmament. Peace is a cycle of pressure, buildup, and release - and the "Nevile Chamberlain" school of appeasement merely prolongs the 'buildup' stage and makes the 'release' more problematic.

If you don't like being mixed in with all those various conservative groups, you shouldn't allow them to act like they speak for the entire block of conservatives as they yell and shout.

"Shouldn't allow?" I'm afraid that my belief in Freedom of Speech makes that kind of approach unfeasible. The real issue here is one where people like myself who are fiscal conservatives are the antithesis of BOTH major US political parties. What we true conservatives want would END the free lunch. NEITHER party wants that to happen. The vast bulk of American voters are fiscal conservatives who want smaller government, balanced budgets, less spending, & lower taxes. Sadly, all we end up with are left wing liberal extremist tax & spenders like Bush & Obama.

But the fact remains, there were no tea party gatherings under Bush.

The objections were there. Even you acknowledge it. The national attention was more consumed with Iraq war protesting. I'm an unaffiliated voter, and I didn't vote Republican so my objections had little weight I deem. Most voters are sheep who join a "big party" and they are too consumed with cheering on their 'team' than caring whether their team is a bunch of self-serving jackasses. It is very similar to the tunnel vision fanboi-ism rampant in modern US sports. "Kobe Bryant is a rapist? M'eh - who cares as long as he wins games..." Sigh.

Because whatever you can say about Barack Obama, he hasn't done ANY damage to the Constitution that wasn't done by dozens of men before him. And to hear people throwing the Constitution around now just rings hollow.

If people who were howling about the Constitution under Bush were also howling about it now, then there would at least be consistency. To hear neolibs howl about the constitution under Bush but fall silent now - as you say - "rings hollow".

Also, one last point, if you think Liberals get their arguments from any one place, that sadly proves you have little information about liberals as a group

Neolib talking points come from a variety of musicians, but the song is always the exact same song. Similarly, right wing talking points come from from way more sources than just Limbaugh & Beck but the message is almost identical.

Say what you will about Republicans, they are ALWAYS... ALWAYS on point, and they take no goddamn prisoners.

I'd say your opinion of the Republican party's unity is somewhat exaggerated. There are innumerable factions in the GOP. The Democrat as I see it is far more efficient about corralling in thier 'mavericks'. This whole health care debate has only gotten this far because of the extremist fringe Democrats stomping on the necks of the moderates.

You Winston, are just a bitter, hypocrite.

Hmm... (slurp) Nope - I'm not bitter. I'm BETTER!

Conservatives and republicans have done REAL damage to this country. And the damage will be felt for years to come.

Everything you blame on 'conservatives' was not done by conservatives. It was done by liberal government interference in the private sector. And yes - the terrible results of these liberal policies (enacted by both Republicans and Democrats) will indeed be felt for years to come. Especially now that Obama is quadrupling down on it.

The sad part is, conservatives and republicans will NEVER take responsibility for their actions.

This isn't a 'Republican' issue. This is a POLITICAL issue. The political class (R or D) for years have taken fiscal conservatism lightly, when in reality the American voter craves fiscal conservatism and not liberal tax & spend policy. Currently Democrats are being far more irresponsible & brusque with voters than Republicans ever were - ignoring all concerns and just ramroding crap through into law. They're on track for a nasty drubbing in 2010. But I see no true conservative party to take their place. Just an equally 'big government loving' Republican party. Sad times for America.

boring as usual, carry on sir

M'eh - that was my initial reaction based on my then false perception the NPP was an accomplishment award. I was clearly mistaken, and have subsequently amended my position to reflect the NPP's true nature as an award for political orientation. Your point?

MadCow right in one respect. The NPP has not been oriented around 'accomplishments' for most of its existence. NPP awards given to people for accomplishments are the exception rather than the rule. The NPP is a political orientation award. It is a neolib award given to neolibs for pushing neolib dogma. When you keep that reality firmly in mind it makes perfect sense that people like Carter, Gore, and Obama would be thier boys. The NPP is an award that the European socialist left dangles to get movers and shakers to line up and march the way they like. It's that simple.

Just call it the "Neolib Puppet Prize". Bullseye.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
However, I don't really think that Obama does deserve to win the Nobel Peace Prize, myself.
The NPP, as a neolib award given to other neolibs, really does sort of belong hanging on Obama's chest. Obama really has done all the right things to make neolibs happy. Everything Obama is doing is practically a transcription of the European socialist left's wet-dreams. Of course they're going to award him with the neolib's highest honor. Obama is cutting American's legs right out from under itself. The neolib left will be worshipping at Obama shaped altars for decades.


...boring as usual, carry on sir.

You know Winston, you *DO* represent the conservative mindset pretty well. In fact, it allows all us Americans a fresh reminder of why republicans should NOT be allowed back in to the White House or Congress for a good, long time.

"The NPP, as a neolib award given to other neolibs, really does sort of belong hanging on Obama's chest."

Actually, the NPP is called, Nobel Award in Peace, NOT, Nobel Prize for Peace. You should really study up on the subject.

If you call those who give out Nobel Awards, Liberal, then, its safe to say (your words, not mine), conservatives are not educated, intelligent, or wise in any of the following fields, the award is given in: Physiology/Medicine, Physics, Chemistry, Literature, Economic Sciences, and Peace. http://nobelprize.org/

"Everything Obama is doing is practically a transcription of the European socialist left's wet-dreams."

Really? How many of these so called 'socialist' nations are embroiled in two war zones created by members from the opposite party? In addition, which of these nations, that are socialists, have to put up with crap from Mr. Beck, Mr. Linbaugh, and the other 5000 conservative talk show idiots? How about you list to me, which of these socialist nations, who's leaders, put their hand on a Bible and declared to uphold the laws and the US Constitution? Yes, go ahead Winston, just try it.

"Obama is cutting American's legs right out from under itself."

Like Mr. Bush, Jr, did with the USA 2000-2008? With turning a surplus of revenue from taxes in to the LARGEST debt the US has EVER experienced in her life time? And thanks to deregulation of several key industries, Americans experienced all sorts of injures and deaths? Remeber the food poisonings? The banking system almost being destroyed? Yes, a well-regulated capitalism is MUCH different from socialism. You should really crack open a book and look it up. Its an old concept from back in the 80-90's.

"The neolib left will be worshipping at Obama shaped altars for decades."

Like we saw EVERY republican who ran for President of the USA in 2008, try to declare themselves the next Ronald Reagan? Republicans worship Ronald Reagan, even though the guy did many things, that ran against their very own ideals. So yes, democrats have their past individuals who excelled, just like republicans. Liberals on the other hand, have many more individuals, because liberals, don't just stick with politics. We have the arts, literature, physics, biology, chemistry, economics, and yes, peace. Isn't that was the Nobel Awards were originally suppose to inspire?

You Winston, are just a bitter, hypocrite. As just about anything you argue, I can dish back with equal or greater measure. Conservatives and republicans have done REAL damage to this country. And the damage will be felt for years to come. The sad part is, conservatives and republicans will NEVER take responsibility for their actions. Oh yeah, they bash Democrats and Mr. Obama, to be responsible, just as long as they (Republicans and conservatives) don't have to be. Might be the reason why conservatives lost so heavily in the last election....

However, I don't really think that Obama does deserve to win the Nobel Peace Prize, myself.

The NPP, as a neolib award given to other neolibs, really does sort of belong hanging on Obama's chest. Obama really has done all the right things to make neolibs happy. Everything Obama is doing is practically a transcription of the European socialist left's wet-dreams. Of course they're going to award him with the neolib's highest honor. Obama is cutting American's legs right out from under itself. The neolib left will be worshipping at Obama shaped altars for decades.