Well put, Marr.

Marr, it's right after this video ends.

"First, I understand why the American people are -- you know, they're tired of the war. There is -- people are -- there is a war fatigue in America. It's affecting our psychology. I've said this before. I understand that this is an ugly war. It's a war in which an enemy will kill innocent men, women and children in order to achieve a political objective. It doesn't surprise me that there is deep concern amongst our people."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070712-5.html

Marr:

re: your knife analogy...

if somebody dug a pit
lined the bottom with knives
greased the edges of the pit
shoved you towards that pit
and then said "I love you, reach out and I will save you"
would that be love? would that person be a hero for saving you?


allow me to break it down:
according to christianity,
who created hell? god
who created humans? god
who created The Tree? god
who placed the stipulation about eating from the tree? god
who created satan, the one who tempted eve? god
who claims to know all that has, and ever will happen? god

god set up humanity to fail.
In law enforcement, we call that entrapment, and consider it illegal.




the free will analogies are not too dissimilar to this:

lock someone in a cage with food.
tell them that if they eat the food, you will kill them.
it is their choice to eat the food and be shot, or starve.
they still have free will.
you know the urge to not starve will be too strong to resist.
The defense of "they shot themself by eating the food" will not hold up in court.

Marr, starving to death in a desert is probably fairly painful (as I've not starved to death in a desert, I can only speculate). But things of that nature. Being able to feel pain, emotional, physical. Pure Love, as greatly undefined as it is (seriously, what would pure love be? The description itself defies anything meaningful.) would suggest that it would not create things that would have negatives. Unless love contains these negatives, but that contradicts . But hey, Pure Love is ultimately a meaningless description. And how can you be two pure things? The sky is Pure blue and Pure red. Doesn't work.

Marr: Radius does affect the distance in that it affects speed at time of launch. A tire with more mass farther apart takes longer to spin up to the full speed possible in this scenario. It looks like the only factors that directly affect distance are speed at launch and surface area of the tire (air resistance). This is why the F1 tire did the worst; large surface area and low weight of tire. The weight (mass) of the tire determines how much momentum the tire has, so a large mass tire will probably be less affected by air resistance than a low mass tire.

marr, the guy in the video is telling you facts, do you have trouble taking information in?

> Thanks for twisting my words and intent in a classically Christian manner, Marr.

I did not twist your words. I wrote my own.

> As if you don't know what I mean.
> Sure you're free not to worship, but that is the road to hell, which is no choice at all.

What you meant is that you do not like one of the two possible outcomes. That doesn't mean you don't have a choice.

Thanks for twisting my words and intent in a classically Christian manner, Marr. As if you don't know what I mean. Sure you're free not to worship, but that is the road to hell, which is no choice at all.

written by karaidl
"I do hope I can tell others about Christ while I am here"

That's exactly what I'm refering to. People liked Marr because he wasn't trying to push his religion. To you, you're doing a service, but on our end it seems like you're trying to force it on us. Yes, I know that's not your intention, and that will probably be your first response. I just want you to know that's how it's received, regardless of intention. Gwaan gets along very well with everyone here because he does not try to spread the word of Islam, but clears up misconceptions that people have on it. He doesn't preach, he doesn't try to get anyone to change, he just wants them to understand.

who was I critizing in my video?

Nobody, I'm refering to this post."
Listen, sharing my faith isn't the only reason why I am here. And do not assume you know why I do what I do. What have I preached so far? That we should try to be civil when we discuss God and perhaps that logic cannot be used to dsiprove or prove God. I see no wrong in that and really feel that all this negativity is undeserved. I have not pushed my religion whatsoever. I haven't said one word of the Bible. Heck, I haven't even mentioned Jesus. I try to help both Atheists and Theists with my video and now I am being told that I am pushing my beliefs on others. Please explain to me exactly how I have pushed my beliefs on others.

As fot the criticism, my bad. I just really don't want that sort of thing to happen. I guess I am am just weird for thinking someone shouldn't be called mentally disabled for belief in God.

I do hope I can tell others about Christ while I am here

That's exactly what I'm refering to. People liked Marr because he wasn't trying to push his religion. To you, you're doing a service, but on our end it seems like you're trying to force it on us. Yes, I know that's not your intention, and that will probably be your first response. I just want you to know that's how it's received, regardless of intention. Gwaan gets along very well with everyone here because he does not try to spread the word of Islam, but clears up misconceptions that people have on it. He doesn't preach, he doesn't try to get anyone to change, he just wants them to understand.

who was I critizing in my video?

Nobody, I'm refering to this post.

written by thesnipe
"It's not about equal opinion, it's the internet, you're going to run into morons on both ends of the spectrum. We can't censor comments that may be insensitive to others. There is a line but noone's crossed it so far. Like I said before it's a democratic community, if enough people like what you post and you spend enough time in the queue it'll get published."

Very well, I suppose. I just really wanted to know if anyone was interested in discussing God in civil manner. By the way, I do not remeber asking for eaqual opinion. Nor do I remember asking for any kind of censorship. I do, however, remember asking that we treat each other fairly.

written by karaidl
"And SP, like James said, don't take Westy seriously, because none of the rest of us do. I suppose that might be part of why you're running into hostility here. You have to realize Westy is our village idiot.

And to clarify what I wrote before, I actually read JD's comment wrong. What I meant was, "I suppose all the other videos that respect religion (like the ones out of Islamica) counted for nothing." Take for example, the video I linked in the last paragraph, where you'll find the comments to be very civil.

Lastly, another reason you're hitting so much resistance here is because it appears that you have an agenda on the site. You avatar has a cross in it, your video challenges logic and basically says it can't be used to disprove God, and your first SiftTalk post is about religion. I'm noticing a pattern here, and I think the some of the other sifters are, too.

There was another user such as yourself, his screenname was Marr. He was only around for a few days to debate with us over a video I posted called "The Atheist Delusion." The reason he was so received was because he provided a level headed discourse with the atheists on the site. But what you're doing sounds more like censorship, or at the very least, trying to get people to change. You'll never get a good welcoming from people if your first impression is criticism. Instead, I would encourage you to help atheists understand Christianity better, just like Marr did, but above all, do not try to change them."

Yes, well, thank you for the info.

As for your JD comment, the link you posted shows what seems to be a minority on this site, that is open and civil discussion.

As for any hidden agenda, I have none. I admit, I do hope I can tell others about Christ while I am here, but I will not be sneaky about it. As for the video I posted on logic, it simply says logic shouldn't and really can't be used to disprove or prove God. You end up with two answers to the same question.

So what if my first post dealt with God? I myself found to video to be funny. I can add other videos if you think I have no other intrests, but I will not just act like I do not believe. I tend to enjoy video games, various forms of trip-hop, and like most toher people, stupidity amuses me. Trust me, I have more videos to offer.

As for Marr, it sounds like he had a good plan. I wish to do something similar. I never asked for censorship, I just ask that we treat each other with respect if we are to discuss God in a civil manner. I am open to any and all questions. Besides, who was I critizing in my video? I showed both believers and non-believers that they cannot use logic to prove their point. As for trying to change people, I know full well it is not my place to do that.

Hmm, I think this may be a good time to state that I was a former atheist, so, yeah, I know where many of them are coming from. I had the same questions they have, and like them, I tried to find my own answers.

And SP, like James said, don't take Westy seriously, because none of the rest of us do. I suppose that might be part of why you're running into hostility here. You have to realize Westy is our village idiot.

And to clarify what I wrote before, I actually read JD's comment wrong. What I meant was, "I suppose all the other videos that respect religion (like the ones out of Islamica) counted for nothing." Take for example, the video I linked in the last paragraph, where you'll find the comments to be very civil.

Lastly, another reason you're hitting so much resistance here is because it appears that you have an agenda on the site. You avatar has a cross in it, your video challenges logic and basically says it can't be used to disprove God, and your first SiftTalk post is about religion. I'm noticing a pattern here, and I think the some of the other sifters are, too.

There was another user such as yourself, his screenname was Marr. He was only around for a few days to debate with us over a video I posted called "The Atheist Delusion." The reason he was so received was because he provided a level headed discourse with the atheists on the site. But what you're doing sounds more like censorship, or at the very least, trying to get people to change. You'll never get a good welcoming from people if your first impression is criticism. Instead, I would encourage you to help atheists understand Christianity better, just like Marr did, but above all, do not try to change them.

Where did Marr go?? I miss him.

marr, thank you for your considerate and non-volatile responses. It's almost like a real, what did we used to call them? Oh, a discussion.

I second that!

Oh and marr - thanks for the *quality contributions to this debate - cheers!