@bcglorf
how come it always take you 4-5 posts to get an idea across that i can relate to?
its frustrating.

dont know how you got i feel america is some kind of 'special" place.
again i seem to have failed in conveying how wretched i think my government has been for the past few decades.

irregardless...
not american eh?
interesting.....
so you think america should play the global police?
and what exactly gives us that right?
because we have the bigger guns? bigger military?

since it cant be on moral grounds it HAS to be military might.

and america only likes to play with those countries it wants/covets/desires in order to perpetuate this global hegemony thing is has going on.

god you are confusing.
on the one hand you wish to see injustice brought to its knees and are willing to make a deal with the devil to do it.

yet on the other hand you reference history as if you have a semblance of understanding and if THAT is the case then you KNOW nothing is a delineated black vs white dynamic.
nothing is ever as simple or easy as it appears.

so you choose to use american military might to crush the religious zealots and in doing so create more...
but your argument appears to be:if we use drones LESS jihadists will be created and this is a good thing.

no.
it..is ..not.

you cant have it both ways.
you cant have your justice with zero (or less) consequences.
there will ALWAYS be consequences.

do you allow a country to work their problems out (as horrific as it can become).
OR do you go in and possibly extend the suffering of normal folk?

how long?
how long do you think it morally right to intrude on another country and most likely extend conflict,while feeding the rage and resentment creating even more fanatics and zealots who only desire is to bring the suffering to your your door?

and here is what really blows me away.
you are utterly oblivious to just how arrogant your statements are.
yes they are coming from a moral outrage.
yes they are coming from a reaction to horror.
but it is still arrogant all the same.

who are you?
who are you to dictate to anyone how or what they should do?

are there homeless in your country?
are there people starving?
is there injustice?
horrors?

or is it only the countries populated by brown people where the injustices warrant violence?
should america come to your country and clean house there as well?

hell,you wanted us in syria and now pakistan.
any other country you want us to drone?
specific people?

or is it a specific religion?
you seem awfully unsure of those muslim folk.
isreal has been doing all kinds of nasty things to the palestinians for the past 80 yrs.
how come no mention of america droning them?

are you starting to see why your argument makes no sense to me?
it is illogical.

because at the end of the day the poor and less fortunate will always pay the price.
how high a price are you willing to pay for seeing a wrong righted?
does it matter that those people you wept for and were outraged for paid an even higher price?

violence begets violence.
if history taught you anything it had to be that equation.

and a drone strike is violence.
it is intimidation.
it is assasination.
and it is wrong.
without a declaration of war passed by congress and no accountability it is wrong.

i will not make a deal with the devil to get justice today.
because when payment comes due the injustices wrought will tower over everything.
i know you disagree with me.
know that i am ok with that.

>> ^blankfist:

What rights in a Libertarian society aren't protected? I'm a minarchist, not an anarchist, so I see government having a specific role, and that is to protect human rights and serve as unbiased arbiter for disputes.

From the UN Declaration of Human Rights, I'll pick this right at semi-random:

Article 23.

* (1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
* (2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
* (3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
* (4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Will your minarchy defend those rights?

As to your other comments, who controls the military in this minarchy, and how do you prevent them from establishing a global hegemony? How do you make the system unbiased?

For that matter, how do you maintain habeas corpus eternally, without fail?

I agree, it's not my power, it's the power of lots of people working together. Not everyone wanted what I want.

For now, I'm willing to trust that we've stopped torturing. I'm content (but not happy) with how we're drawing down from Iraq. I'm discontent with the silence we're given about Afghanistan.

I wouldn't call what's happening nationalizing labor and industry. While government has bought shares in several major companies, they have studiously avoided giving themselves controlling interest, and have no interest in maintaining ownership. If I get a whiff that they plan on keeping GM or AIG, or any of the banks, I'll get unhappy fast.

As for the debt and deficit, I'm numb to it. It's been insurmountably large, and increasing since before I could walk. I want it fixed, but really, it wasn't so bad until Bush, and it's not nearly as bad as it was after WW2 and the Great Depression. I'm not so worried about deficits now as I am concerned about things like health care and global warming. Putting plans for both in place will likely help out a lot with the debt, and our trade imbalances, and the environment, and people's willingness to start their own business, etc.

As for the empire, I'm not in favor of sustaining it. But there's only so much I think is possible to fix right now. There'd be a public outcry if we tried to cut "defense" spending, especially when every Republican screams "OOGA BOOGA, TERRORISM" into every open mic around.

I don't think that the Democrats are perfect, but I'm never going to be interested in being a libertarian. I think in Europe I might be a conservative (maybe), but here and now I'm trying to make the Democrats live up to their platform, which is a big step in the right direction on all fronts as far as I'm concerned. I want more, more quickly but I don't see anything changing quickly under our constitution (and I'd rather not see Obama take up the Bush tactics for ramming things through).

Personally the main issue I face in "purifying" the Democrats is big business bribing our guys to the dark side, and self-identified conservatives ramping up hatred for everyone else in the world. Trying to tell everyone that business is the sweetest, most wonderful thing in the world is like the sickest kind of joke, especially if you want some sort of lasting anti-war and anti-corporatist movement to succeed.

When there's a country where 20-30% of the people think QM is right every time he opens his mouth (and 30% more who're willing to give up anything to feel safe from the feverish horrors they dream up), things like ending a global hegemony gets very, very hard, especially if you spend more time fighting with people like me, than people like him.

Seriously man, we're on the same side with most of the important stuff.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:

oh this post just fucking pissed me off.
i have long refused to suckle at the giant teat of iranian propaganda,and what is happening to the common people who are protesting is egregious in its violence.maybe americans and british should pay attention,this might be foreshadowing.
on it own, this post would be noble,even praiseworthy,but to call americans cowards?
bold words coming from a panty waist sitting in his boxers typing on a keyboard.
sad thing is,i actually agree that consumerism=slavery.that most americans have no clue.
but thats not COWARDICE,thats IGNORANCE,get your nouns right dipshit.
so..
you wanna play "horror-troll" do ye?
ok..ill take your shooting and raise ya:
one "active-denial system" massacre of beit hanoun.
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/11/13/us-officers-planned-the-beit-hanoun-massacre/
they used microwaves to do this..MICROWAVES..isreal+america,yet ask an american if he knows about this.ill tell ya..they dont.
do you think it is ONLY in iran,or palestine,chechnya,bosnia,somolia etc etc where horrendous violent acts against humans happens?
do you think america is soley responsible?
while america for the past 50 years has been the greatest aggregator of violence and bloodshed for global hegemony.you think they did it ALONE?
FUCK...your stupidity is making my brain hurt..how can you arbitrarily blame a countries people?
the network of elites who use their money,power and influence to perpetuate their own status quo at the cost of the majority is nothing new to human history.
for FUCKS sake boy! it was the AMERICAN PEOPLE who stopped the vietnam war!!
but it was only when the truth of the war,fair and honest reporting,and the revelation of the gulf of tonkin came out.
so instead of sitting at your chair and feeling clever,maybe you should take the time to consider that you admonish a people who just DONT KNOW.
what i DO know is that you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
fuck this and fuck you..
cowards..phhht..
asshat ..l..

If we don't keep developing this kind of stuff, then the US will lose its military hegemony. US forces are now concentrated on two fronts, Iraq and Afghanistan. While the prospect of direct military confrontation is low, there exists the possibility of someone starting armed conflict either against our allies or in a way that is detrimental to the US.

Once it becomes clear that the US lacks the power to enforce its will militarily, we will lose a great deal of the military hegemony that we have thus far. Once that happens, it stands to reason that we will have less ability to influence treaties and organizations in ways that benefit us, and so the EU and China may well overtake us in the global economy.

Hence, it is to our benefit to make it very clear to the rest of the world that we can kick your asses with both hands tied behind our back.

This, if you were wondering, is why we still have such abject poverty in areas of the US. Our leaders believe it is more important to maintain global hegemony rather than to feed people who are starving.