*whispers* Um, many of the 'founding fathers' owned slaves. *whispers*

I will admit to a certain obsession with the founding fathers. That so many great men could have met in a single point and place in time is truly remarkable.
I strongly recommend Joseph Ellis's recent books on the characters that framed our constitution and country. Many of the presentations on the Sift, (regarding these great men), are rather selective in the portrait they paint. Jefferson, in particular, is represented more for what he said, than what he did. In reality, Jefferson would never had been able to accomplish the many great things he did, without the leisure provided him by men denied their own freedom. His embargo of English goods during his second term as President, and his executive threats of military force against Vermonters trading with Canada stood, at the time, as one of the most brazen examples of Federalism.

Still, do I admire the man? Absolutely. I stand in awe of them all, Jefferson, for his curiosity, intellect and idealism. Washington, for his courage, humility, and practicality. Adams for his dogged persistence and ethics. Franklin for his genius, humor, and fair-mindedness, and Hamilton, for his insight into the nuts and bolts needed to keep the whole thing together.

We shouldn't forget the greatest ethical compromise they all made together, and that was making debate on slavery taboo on the congress floor for 30 years so the fragile union wouldn't implode before it got off the ground. Even 70 years later, it almost blew it apart.

These were truly, truly great men, not perfect, but damn close.

lol.

qualm has issues???
Seems that compromise and efficacy is in direct conflict with someone's fantastic idealism......get over it-One has every opportunity to affect some salience with regard to one's ideals, in one's personal circle-

or as some, similarly disposed redneck would say, "If you don't like it here, why don't you move to Croatia??!!"

I can find my own ass on a map.....kin ewe?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security, will deserve neither, and lose both."

False Flags and invisible terrorists, razor-blade wielding zealots, who suddenly become expert pilots, two towers soon to cost a millionaire, millions more, the largest infrastructure on the planet stands to gain billions with such a small sacrifice (few thousand monkeys), protracted wars and lame duck pigs, denial denial denial, the siren script of defective process-6 years and counting, the more time that passes, the fewer who are even capable of deriving meaning from meaninglessness, and the more there will be who would gladly turn in their own mother to the authorities for the sake of their own, pathetic fear-

Again-a rag-tag group of precision towelheads made two skyscrapers, and another 47-story drop, into their footprints, and another "jet" hits the pentagon.......

People are so easily duped, no wonder this country is on the fucking brink.......

Ah well, Nibiru will even the playing field. Better take that vacation you have been putting off-cash in that 401K baby, while you can.

Choggie, why didn't you use the word 'paradigm'? Are you not feeling well today?