>> ^hpqp:

^injustices in western civilizations, yes. The same? Absolutely not.


I fail to see how the occupation of another country is any more civilized than the stoning of one person. But I tend to push a hard line with my comparisons; which are strictly my opinion.

But when Muslims want to impose Sharia Law in there own territories and countries..

dawkins made his point. but i'd like to hear his answer to the response question: "what's the relevance of what happens in an islamic nation and great britain?"

Surely he doesn't need one. I normally find Dawkins to be possessed by an irritatingly superiority and smugness, but on this point he is entirely justified in having it.

Let's repeat what was said. By Sharia law, in any Islamic country, converting from Islam is to be punished by death. Can anybody in favor of religious freedoms honestly say they have no problem with this? If your religious views consider it ok to murder people for converting away from your faith, I'd call that a valid point of criticism of your faith, no matter which country you are in.

Here in the Western world, we the ignorant infidels don't tolerate that kind of backwards garbage.

30% of young muslims living in britain want sharia law to be adopted by parliament, something like that. As i understand it, this is more or less where these concerns on islam are coming from. That is a perfectly legitimate and urgent concern.

Now im not entirely familiar with british constitution (if thats the name of it) so allow me to make a comparison (go with what you know right?)

in the american constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

if a large majority group of muslims in america wanted the same thing, IF it ever happened i'd have a much larger concern with why laws are being created that go against our own constitution than "oh shit now im gonna get stoned for having sex"

The relevance is that fundamental islamic followers are moving to great britain and setting up here. I've heard a few rumblings in the past about certain areas in certain cities where nutjob muslims (yes, like there are nutjob christians too) refuse to speak any language other than their own, virtually ostracise themself from great britain from anything other than selecting which benefits of our country they want to live with. Such as jobseeker's allowance, child maintenance, free health care, housing payments, free schooling, free speech (especially this one), etc. etc.

There are many english speaking fuckbags who do it too. There are many people whose family history you could trace back hundreds of years to these islands, they're doing it as well.

I've also heard rumblings that some of these people want to bring elements of sharia (spell check) law into british law, allowing them to deal with 'their own' people in 'their own' way (not my words). I won't pretend that this is some major agenda being pushed by credible muslim groups in this country, it could easily be a bunch of isolated nutcases like the christian families in america protesting army funerals.

What i can say for certain is that in these certain areas of certain cities sharia law IS being practised. These little communities within a community set themselves up as being apart from everyone else and the people in there live how they like. I wish i could cite the documentary i watched on this subject but i can't, so i'm reduced to looking like an idle speculator.

Segregation of communities is CLEARLY a problem. I think it's been a problem for a while here in britain, we haven't worked hard enough to make sure immigrants grow to become part of britain. As a result, we are left with places like that in this country, and left with people voting for the BNP/UKIP because they feel like that's their only option left to resolve tensions in certain areas. It's why we're left with people arguing over schools, what's taught there and what isn't, whether it's fair for things to be included or excluded from schools, what you can wear to work, and so on.

The relevance of this question to me is establishing that there are elements of muslim life and religion from muslim countries that simply cannot be taken to other countries, and not just the death penalty for leaving the faith. That's what it meant to me.

The relevance could also very easily be showing that certain aspects of the muslim faith can't be visited upon other countries because it would be tantamount to a war crime. Replicating images of their god, leaving their faith. These things should only apply to their country, not internationally. Yet we've seen events where they ARE applied internationally by lunatics.

Yep.

Are we as relaxed about catholics who do not decry the abuse of children by the clergy? If muslims stand idly by and do not condemn the horrors of sharia law then they are, at best, being willfully ignorant and at worst tacitly condoning it.

>> ^joedirt:

He has become a big douche.
"The Muslims" as if that is a group.
Sure there are entire countries with some backass sharia laws, but he is so retarded sounding and bigotted blanketing all muslim based on his lack of understanding.


He is targeting the muslims who abide by radical islam - thats pretty clear.

And he makes a good point - the Christians by and large have abandoned the stoning etc, while certain muslim groups (not limited to Muslim countries) carry on with their brutal hudud punishments etc. And its completely hypocritical to call the west/non-believers sinful and invalid, while at the same time wearing nike basketball shoes and expressing their hate on youtube.


And I'm sorry but moderate Muslim outrage against violence is pitifully sparse in comparison to the hateful outrage coming from the proponents of killing for religious/political ideals.

I've heard of the occasional islamic scholar pussy-footing around with a 500 page treatise against violence in the Koran, and Muslims on the street speaking against violence.

But I don't just want to see non-violent muslims, I want to see a overwhelming (ie winning) Muslim culture of anti-violence.

He has become a big douche.

"The Muslims" as if that is a group.

Sure there are entire countries with some backass sharia laws, but he is so retarded sounding and bigotted blanketing all muslim based on his lack of understanding.

Sorry reposting with some edits...

Ok ok, I get that Islam is as fragmented into as many factions as Christianity is, but the simple truth remains; Islam is evolving into a death cult. Never mind the original tennets of peace and goodwill that Islam was founded on. They are just becoming the biggest bully on the playground that can't take criticism or have their territories or ideas impugned in any way. There are way too many Muslims that subscribe to the return of the Mahdi theory and that it can be sped along by creating chaos and death in the world. They also believe that they will be not held accountable for the suffering and even rewarded for the death of non-believers. Even one Muslim who subscribes to this thinking is too many, and free nations need to take as stand against the hate bred by "the truth of Sharia law" as this man puts it. All nations ought to be standing against any hate bred by inflamed ideologies in order to serve their neighbors and protect their hard won common good. Europe is being overrun by this aggressiveness and The US is quaking in it's boots over it (just look at the security paranoia in airports if you don't believe me). Censors remove TV shows that hint at even a small displeasure at the faith that has such contempt for the west (ie. Southpark, not my favorite show but still.), removing the right to speak out against such ideals. I say wake up free nations and be strong against such wantonly hateful ideals. They are a crime and deserve no equivocation.

Ok ok, I get that Islam is as fragmented into as many factions as Christianity is, but the simple truth remains; Islam is evolving into a death cult. Never mind the original tennets of peace and goodwill the Islam was founded on. They are just becoming the biggest bully on the playground that can't take criticism or have thier territories or ideas impugned in any way. There are way too many Muslims that subscribe to the return of the Mahdi theory and that it can be sped along by creating chaos and death in the world. They also believe that they will be not held accountable for the suffering and even rewarded for the death of non-believers. Even one Muslim who subscribes to this thinking is too many, and free nations need to take as stand against the hate bred by "the truth of Sharia law" as this man puts it. All nations ought to be standing against any hate bred by inflamed ideaologies in order to serve thier neighbors and protect their hard won common good. Europe is being overrun by this aggressiveness and The US is quaking in it's boots over it (just look at the security paranoia in airports if you don't believe me) and censors remove TV shows that hint at even a mall displeasure that the faith that has such contempt for the west (ie. Southpark), removing the right to speak out against such ideals. I say wake up free nations and be strong against such wantonly hateful ideals. They are a crime and deserve no equivocation.

When I think of fun loving great places to visit or live.....well just read and see what I mean.......................(the Koran is not a simple history. It is the way all true Muslims must live.
What Islam Isn't
By Dr. Peter Hammond
FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, April 21, 2008
The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called 'religious rights.'

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to 'the reasonable' Muslim demands for their 'religious rights,' they also get the other components under the table. Here's how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
(Where's your next vacation to?)

I simply don't see the average person ditching their normal life and instead devoting themselves to violence purely from a particular interpretation of a holy book.


You need to look at what the average person's 'normal' life actually is. Anyone born in Afghanistan under the Taliban lived a life were 'normal' consisted of abject poverty, illiteracy and strict adherence to Sharia law. Anyone 'fortunate' enough to get an education received it through Taliban approved madrasahs. That education always devoted an enormous time purely to a particular interpretation of a holy book, including the use of violence against infidels.

You can apply the exact same analysis to varying degree for any other country that enforce Sharia law(or similar religious law) and whose education system is dominated by Madrasahs(or similar religious schools). The most worrisome being the dominance of Madrasahs in Pakistan's education system and the deep connections and links between the Mullahs teaching there and groups like Al-Qaida and the Taliban. Pair that with Pakistan's nuclear weapons and AQ Khan's willingness to sell the related technology and suddenly it seems like the fundamentalism in Afghanistan along Pakistan's porous border is very much our problem.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Pakistan, Militants, Sharia Law, Swat, Buner' to 'Pakistan, Militants, Sharia Law, Swat, Buner, taliban' - edited by kronosposeidon

Socialist dictator? In no way is he a dictator. He was elected and he has held referendums that were deemed fair by international monitoring organizations.
Shaking hands with the king (=dictator) of Saudi Arabia, a country with Sharia law, is much worse than with Chavez.

40% of muslims in Britain want Sharia law..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html
If they so dislike the current law and society, why don't the fuck off back to where they came? Where sharia law is implemented? Where they can kill their daughters for not wanting to marry someone they chose for them.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-told-you-have-dishonoured-your-family-please-kill-yourself-1655373.html

Good interview, in no way was Wilders shredded.