>> ^Farhad2000:
Peace with a hostile enemy doesn't imply there is peace all over Iraq. I was referring to certain parts of Iraqi society and country.


With which hostile enemy did they achieve peace? What name do you call the people that are still fighting against them?

I sound like I'm trying to be a dick, but I'm not... I'm just totally confused by how you see the situation...

>> ^Kerotan:
Dirty trick yes, but in what is for all purposes, a hostage situation, you simply can't justify blowing both the hostage and terrorist away, it kinda misses the point of counter-terrorism, the job in hand is to stop people blowing up innocent people, not do it for them.


The IDF isn't as interested in saving Palestinian lives as Israeli lives. Because of public pressure(mostly internal but some foreign as well) Israel doesn't want excessive civilian casualties to result from their strikes. That said, they are not discriminate enough in many cases and it goes beyond isolated cases and higher up than poor discipline among grunts. But, there is still an attempt to target militant targets and the occasions where a purely civilian target is hit is met with an investigation at the demand of the Israeli population. Contrast that with Hamas deliberate targeting of civilians and joyous celebration of civilian deaths. Israel is doing bad things, but Hamas is worse. This video clearly shows Hamas hiding under cover of a school, making use of their strongest weapon, martyring their own people.

>> ^mharvey42:
Apparently it looked like this from the air:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Hamas-firing-mortars-froma-school-d
rone-video


don't lie to us man, that vids from 2007.

>> ^Farhad2000:
Ha.
The US achieved peace with a hostile enemy by employed the methodology of COIN and hearts and minds to allow Iraqis to govern themselves, though years late cooperation and dialog in parts of Iraq have shown that soft contact with the local populace has meant that Iraqis actively gave up insurgents themselves.



The US achieved peace? Huh... I must have missed the news that US soldiers are no longer being killed in Iraq. Cool.

*dupeof=http://www.videosift.com/video/Hamas-firing-mortars-froma-school-drone-video

Invocations (dupeof=http://www.videosift.com/video/hamas-firing-mortars-froma-school-drone-video) cannot be called by Pprt because Pprt is not privileged - sorry.

Apparently it looked like this from the air:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Hamas-firing-mortars-froma-school-drone-video

>> ^Farhad2000:You condemn the actions of Hamas without ever looking at why terrorism has become the last resort of certain political groups in Palestine. Maybe it's because Israel doesn't really care about striving for a Palestinian state and peace.


I condemn Hamas for deliberately violating the presumed neutrality of a school, and then having the hutzpah to lay the victim's blood at the Israeli's feet. They have no shame, no conscious.

>> ^rychan:
A serious question -- Everyone is talking about Hamas and Israel. What is the correct response for the people in the school?
With many students surely someone noticed that men were sneaking around setting off mortars. If you decide to sit tight, you must realize you're being used as a human shield. Surely you would get the hell out of there? Or possibly even actively resist the people who are trying to instigate Israel to kill you?


Absolutely...

Shocking that parents would knowingly send their kids to a "school" where mortar is fired in the schoolyard. I guess it's a cultural thing to be proud that your child dies as a "martyr".

By the way... isn't the preposition Al-Jazeera chose so obviously ridiculous?

"War on Gaza"

A serious question -- Everyone is talking about Hamas and Israel. What is the correct response for the people in the school?

With many students surely someone noticed that men were sneaking around setting off mortars. If you decide to sit tight, you must realize you're being used as a human shield. Surely you would get the hell out of there? Or possibly even actively resist the people who are trying to instigate Israel to kill you?

>> ^quantumushroom:
QM, of those "10,000" rockets how much damage or causulties have resulted from these randomly fired rockets?
How many rockets would have to be launched at your house before you become 'concerned'?

Concerned as in address the root problem behind the mortars and rockets? Would I go kill thousands (at least half of which being innocent civilians and women and children)?? Don't you think that might backfire if my goal was to stop rockets landing on my illegal settlements on stolen lands.

I'm willing to bet if you gave them back their airport, jobs, access to the sea, fishing, water, working sewers, hospitals, electricity.. Just maybe.. maybe people would not be launching rockets. Possible? at all?

Sorry, but this is a dupe.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Hamas-firing-mortars-froma-school-drone-video

Well, seeing as they are sending in tanks and troops anyway, couldn't they send troops in to these buildings to get those that are firing the mortars? They seem to 'know' where the attacks are coming from, so rather than just sending in missiles and accepting huge civilian casualites, wouldn't the 'right' thing to do be doing all you can to ONLY get the 'bad guys'?

Do note I say this with little to no understanding of how hard it would actually BE to get troops there, I'm just saying, why are bombs the only option?

And from my point of view, both sides are dead wrong on this... both sides who can't accept a peaceful outcome. Both sides who have decided it's their 'god given' right to inhabit a certain piece of soil.

Fuck religion, fuck people who take things as written in old books as inarguable proof and a just cause for them killing others.

Fuck them all for making the lives of all of those living on both sides of this that really just want peace, and don't really care for pissing matches over land

You condemn the actions of Hamas without ever looking at why terrorism has become the last resort of certain political groups in Palestine. Maybe it's because Israel doesn't really care about striving for a Palestinian state and peace.


I'll assume you are addressing me, and yes I am entirely comfortable condemning Hamas irregardless of how or why they came into being. I am proud to condemn any group encouraging the suicide bombing of civilians and the recruitment of children for same.

I'm sorry, but I really feel as though there is the misconception that condemning Hamas as the monsters that they are is somehow an endorsement of any and all Israeli tactics against Hamas, it isn't!

This video just once again shows the uncomfortable reality of the situation. Hamas militants committed to the destruction of Israel are launching rocket and mortar attacks against Israeil civilians from the cover of school children. Israel in it's turn bombs the school killing more children than Hamas rocket's ever have. But what in the hell is the answer to this cycle? Those same children are being recruited and trained by Hamas to blow themselves up.

Hamas needs to be stopped, but not for the sake of Israel, because they are piss poor at killing Israelis. They need to be stopped because they are doing a damn sight better job of killing Palestinian civilians, either directly to consolidate their control and power and through active recruitment for suicide bombings, or indirectly by using them as human shields. And let me be clear, I don't excuse Israel for killing those human shields by accusing Hamas, both are guilty for the casualties.

But the question stands, what is the real solution? Leaving Hamas alone to build up has provenly shown that they simply kill moderate Palestinians to consolidate their internal support and continue to launch more rockets at Israel the more chance they are given to build up.


Maybe it's because Israel doesn't really care about striving for a Palestinian state and peace.

Show me any nation in the entirety of the world that gives two shits about any other beyond the impact on it's own self-interest. I don't expect Israel to care about a Palestinian state beyond the benefits a stable independent Palestine would provide them. I would obviously hope and urge them to care, and I even condemn them for not. But after the world(every single nation on the planet, without exception) completely ignored the genocide of Rwanda, I no longer have any expectation of nations to care for any interests but their own. It makes me sad,angry and emotions I can't really describe, but I just can't deny that is reality.

(Note: this is not the same as rocket-attacking Israeli cities from a range of many miles. Mortars have very limited range, so are they targeting Israeli civilians, or Israeli hardened military asset points?)
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Upvote for Lucky's comment, though. I agree that attacking schools is bad, but what is the alternative?