*dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Amazing-Italian-Designed-Space-Saving-Furniture

This video has been nominated as a duplicate of this video by SlipperyPete. If this nomination is seconded with *isdupe, the video will be killed and its votes transferred to the original.

You can argue about the naturalness of it all you like, but I'm not comfy with people leaving little chocolate starfish kisses on the furniture.

I remember being inconvenienced because the people who were helping me move furniture got distracted by some trivial item on the news.

It's nonsense like this post that causes these kind of discussions to devolve into mudslinging matches. There is no credible evidence that fires caused the collapse either. Sure some fancy physics modelling produces something that could be a scenario for the collapse but please don't expect me to believe that this is proof.
There are no mountains of proof because the evidence was removed from the scene. It's all just theories. You like the official version. I don't buy it. That doesn't make me religious or a conspiracy theorist any more than you.>> ^lucky760:

>> Exactly how does some office furniture burn for 7 hours...
explain how a burning stack of coffee filters generates the same heat as a truck filled with 9000 gallons of fuel
Some office furniture? A burning stack of coffee filters? Because... that's all anyone can ever find in any high rise building, right? Typical.
It's simply fascinating the lengths some people will go to keep their death grip on the ideas they want -- need so badly to believe are fact.
It's very similar to the manner in which a religious person will vehemently defend that their god is the one real god, but these conspiracy theorists are exponentially worse. Not only do they not have credible evidence to support their outrageous beliefs, but they scoff with blissful ignorance in the face of a mountain of proof explaining why they're wrong.
I believe most of these folks, possibly due to psychological and/or personality disorders, just lack the ability or desire or courage to even consider the notion that the likelihood of their theory being reality is profoundly improbable.
Show them a black stone and they'll scream at you why it's white (and that you and everyone else on Earth are in collusion to try convincing them that it's black). That's human nature for you. Not always quality, but always interesting.

>> Exactly how does some office furniture burn for 7 hours...
explain how a burning stack of coffee filters generates the same heat as a truck filled with 9000 gallons of fuel

Some office furniture? A burning stack of coffee filters? Because... that's all anyone can ever find in any high rise building, right? Typical.

It's simply fascinating the lengths some people will go to keep their death grip on the ideas they want -- need so badly to believe are fact.

It's very similar to the manner in which a religious person will vehemently defend that their god is the one real god, but these conspiracy theorists are exponentially worse. Not only do they not have credible evidence to support their outrageous beliefs (their primary evidence usually seems to be in the form of questions), but they scoff with blissful ignorance in the face of a mountain of proof explaining why they're wrong.

I believe most of these folks, possibly due to psychological and/or personality disorders, just lack the ability or desire or courage to even consider the notion that the likelihood of their theory being reality is profoundly improbable.

Show them a black stone and they'll scream at you why it's white (and that you and everyone else on Earth are in collusion to try convincing them that it's black). That's human nature for you. Not always *quality, but always interesting.

>> ^LordOderus:

A match burns at around 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, so I have no problems believing thousands of pounds of paper, wood (from furniture) fabrics and plastics (which are made from petroleum) could easily exceed 1000 degrees after burning for 7 hours.


Other things that can exceed 1000F:
-The elements on your stove
-Well ventilated cigarettes
-candles(better than 1400F)

Oh, and well ventilated wood can top 3500F.

If marinara takes this to heart I'm sure he'll be back shortly with a newly discovered understanding of the difference between energy and temperature, and some brand new misunderstanding of how to apply that to the problem.

There's a series of four of these, in the first three they put dishes and stuff on the tablecloth and the trick fails, here they finally nail the trick but knock the furniture over.

I'd say it's all a set-up. In part because, what kind of psycho would post this video to YouTube if the kid actually was seriously injured or killed?

A match burns at around 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, so I have no problems believing thousands of pounds of paper, wood (from furniture) fabrics and plastics (which are made from petroleum) could easily exceed 1000 degrees after burning for 7 hours.

>> ^marinara:

Exactly how does some office furniture burn for 7 hours, and then raise (fireproofed) steel to over 1000 degrees? What we know from other videos of WT7, is many of the fires extinguished themselves (burned themselves out).

I really doubt that a failure of a steel beam, which supports the floor (and nothing else), could take down an entire building.
Otherwise the facts in this video are generally correct, but misleading. (because office fires don't burn over 1000 degrees)


Actually, cinder blocks will ignite and burn if hot enough and they make up most people's chimneys in their house. Different materials burn at higher and higher temperatures. The heat from the fire pulls in more air, which causes higher temp things to burn, which pulls in more air, etc. etc.

ANY large fire can burn over 1000 degrees. It just needs oxygen in quantity. If some sweaty bastard with a set of bellows can melt iron and steel in a forge, then air sucked in by a huge, uncontrolled fire can do the same. The whole structure doesn't need to bend, just parts of the bottom.

You can't equate a single-room fire test of material combustion with a fully involved structure fire.

...and yes, you are quite right, most fires, if not brought under control, make highrises into death traps.

Exactly how does some office furniture burn for 7 hours, and then raise (fireproofed) steel to over 1000 degrees? What we know from other videos of WT7, is many of the fires extinguished themselves (burned themselves out).


I really doubt that a failure of a steel beam, which supports the floor (and nothing else), could take down an entire building.

Otherwise the facts in this video are generally correct, but misleading. (because office fires don't burn over 1000 degrees)

Fuck IKEA. I'm done with them . Everything in their store is well below shit quality. I don't care how cheap it is, most of it is not even worth having. I'll never buy another piece of furniture from IKEA.

First example: their tealights. Wow, 100 tealights for $5!? Seems like an incredible bargain. But a tealight that won't even stay lit is worthless at any price. IKEA tealights just don't stay lit... the wax doesn't burn away fast enough, and the wick is limp. So the wick dips over and snuffs itself in the liquid wax. Don't ask me why I'm fucking around with tea-lights (I used to have girls over and light candles etc... now that seems like a previous life). I'd rather pay $10 for 40 tealights that will actually stay lit until the wax is gone. I bought a bunch of IKEA tealights back when I moved into this place... I was there every week for a couple months, and half the time I'd just snag a pack of tealights thinking they were a great bargain. It took me a couple years to finally accept that those tealights were worth less than the plastic wrapped around them, and just throw them all out.

Don't get me started on the lightbulbs they sell... Every once in a while I get some new bulbs for all the little underlights I have around for vases and shit... the bulbs last a few weeks of infrequent use on average.

Their tea-lights

I bought a whole bunch of IKEA shit just under five years ago when I moved into this apartment. Shelves, lamps, some mats. Most of it has literally started to fall apart from regular use. One of my BILLY bookshelf sets sufferend a "pancake collapse" of the shelves inside, which could not (ironically) support the weight of the (comic) books I was storing on them... the shelves are now basically useless until I figure out some kind of repair on the parts where the shelves connect to the bookshelf body... that's where it all came apart.

And once you've put doors onto a BILLY shelf it's up around $250 for a set (maybe more? I can't remember), at which point you may as well look at some real shelves made for grown-ups.

The rich pay a higher percentage, and more taxes overall than the poor. Why do you think anyone is saying otherwise. And that's absolutely how it should be, for the good of everyone, rich included.

It's perfectly sensible to talk about why some people don't pay any taxes at all. I'm not even debating that. But the rich should still pay more, regardless. The US has been one of the strongest economies for most of the 20th and 21st centuries with a progressive income tax, and it's been a heck of a lot more progressive than it is now, and we were still very prosperous.

Showing fraud in some programs doesn't mean the program should be abolished. It can be reformed as well. There are plenty of ways to do that. We didn't abolish welfare in the 1990s. We reformed it. And no, it's not true that private businesses will always create the jobs when the economy is down. History has proven quite the opposite. Why would a business invest to make more goods and services if there's no market for it. A downturn in the economy breeds more economic decline. It's called a business cycle, and it's a natural occurrence. If you were a business owner, generally speaking, if you know less people out there have the money to buy your goods and services, would you increase production and hire more workers? Of course not. Does the average person put more money into the stock market or take money out when the market tanks? Takes money out, which drains money for investing. This is basic micro and macroeconomics.

Some force has to run counter to the natural tendencies of the market to force demand to increase, and of course this virtually always requires running a deficit. This is why slogans like "the gov't should be run like a business" are simplistic and wrong. The gov't should in those situations create jobs through various programs, thereby increasing income for the lower classes, which creates spending and demand, which then causes businesses to increase production, hire more workers, and that gets the economy back on track. You can site case study after case study in our history we've done this, and it worked. We ended the Great Depression via defense spending in the form of WWII in record levels as the most obvious exaggerated example. That historically was qm's worst nightmare - record deficits in raw amount at the time, and still to this day historic record deficits as a percentage of GDP during WWII, followed by a tax raise on the richest Americans to over 90%. And what calamity befell the US because of those policies? We ended the Great Depression, became an economic Superpower, and Americans enjoyed record prosperity it and the world had never seen before.

This is historical fact that simply can't be denied.

Here's what happened - Democrats deficit spent as they were supposed to (which is exactly what the GOP would have done had they been in power, because it was started by George W. Bush), which stopped the economic free fall. Moody's didn't downgrade the US debt. It was S&P. They sited math about the alarming deficits which contained a $2 trillion mistake on their part. They also sited political instability as the GOP was risking default to get their policies in place, which btw still include massive deficits.

The GOP couldn't stop the Democrats from spending all that money?! Laughable. The GOP started the freakin' bailouts and stimulus! What did the GOP do the last time there was a recession after 9/11? Deficit spent, then continued to deficit spend when the economy was strong. Dude, seriously, you have no factual basis for that kind of claim whatsoever.

>> ^quantumushroom:

this is what we've been trying to tell you QM, the system doesn't work when only a few contribute...the system works when ALL contribute based on what they can afford.
I totally agree, so why does the bottom 50% of Americans pay NO income tax? The wealthy already pay a disproportionately high percentage of all taxes and I have yet to find a liberalsifter who admits this.
I well understand that Scrooge McDuck won't miss a few more shovelfuls of gold coins swiped by federal bulldozers, but lets review reality:
1) The "extra" money attained by "soaking" Scrooge and Rich Uncle Pennybags (from the Monopoly game) will be pi$$ed away, like the 60 billion dollars EVERY YEAR lost to fraud, waste and abuse in Medicaid/Medicare. The federal mafia is composed of sh1tty stewards of our money.
2) The Hawaiian Dunce has spent 3 trillion in 3 years with little or nothing to show for it. So what magical number of dollars is going to make everything all right? A quadrillion?
3) When the socialists raise taxes, the wealthy of 2011 have their accountant press a few buttons on their computating machines, sending their $$$ overseas, invested in more stable markets. Apparently many already have, probably the moment they knew Obama was elected.
4) Liberal say, "Rich man not know difference he still rich." But there's now less money to invest and less money to create jobs. Now some liberalsifter will say, "This graph indicates that the rich don't create jobs with their ill-gotten gains."
BUT, if you're honest with yourselves, you'll know that one million dollars has a much better chance of creating jobs in the hands of entrepreneurs and investors than the government "Department of Creating Jobs" which probably spends that much just on office furniture.
5) The debt limit 'debate' is total BS, always has been. Here is what happened: taxocrats burned through tax money at an alarming rate and there weren't enough elected Republicans to stop them. THAT'S why Moody's got scared and US was downgraded. Republicans can't communicate for sh1t anyway, and so the socialists and their media lapdogs managed to blame the right for this mess.
6) Warren Buffoon likes to be liked, I get that, but he should still STFU and make a real gesture. Giving a symbolic billion dollars to the federal mafia should do it. He won't miss it.

this is what we've been trying to tell you QM, the system doesn't work when only a few contribute...the system works when ALL contribute based on what they can afford.

I totally agree, so why does the bottom 50% of Americans pay NO income tax? The wealthy already pay a disproportionately high percentage of all taxes and I have yet to find a liberalsifter who admits this.

I well understand that Scrooge McDuck won't miss a few more shovelfuls of gold coins swiped by federal bulldozers, but lets review reality:

1) The "extra" money attained by "soaking" Scrooge and Rich Uncle Pennybags (from the Monopoly game) will be pi$$ed away, like the 60 billion dollars EVERY YEAR lost to fraud, waste and abuse in Medicaid/Medicare. The federal mafia is composed of sh1tty stewards of our money.

2) The Hawaiian Dunce has spent 3 trillion in 3 years with little or nothing to show for it. So what magical number of dollars is going to make everything all right? A quadrillion?

3) When the socialists raise taxes, the wealthy of 2011 have their accountant press a few buttons on their computating machines, sending their $$$ overseas, invested in more stable markets. Apparently many already have, probably the moment they knew Obama was elected.

4) Liberal say, "Rich man not know difference he still rich." But there's now less money to invest and less money to create jobs. Now some liberalsifter will say, "This graph indicates that the rich don't create jobs with their ill-gotten gains."

BUT, if you're honest with yourselves, you'll know that one million dollars has a much better chance of creating jobs in the hands of entrepreneurs and investors than the government "Department of Creating Jobs" which probably spends that much just on office furniture.

5) The debt limit 'debate' is total BS, always has been. Here is what happened: taxocrats burned through tax money at an alarming rate and there weren't enough elected Republicans to stop them. THAT'S why Moody's got scared and US was downgraded. Republicans can't communicate for sh1t anyway, and so the socialists and their media lapdogs managed to blame the right for this mess.

6) Warren Buffoon likes to be liked, I get that, but he should still STFU and make a real gesture. Giving a symbolic billion dollars to the federal mafia should do it. He won't miss it.