>> ^Fjnbk:
The problem with a phonetic language is that people who speak different dialects (Bostonians, Southerners, Jamaicans) will naturally be inclined to spell the words as THEY would spell them, and since there is no central dialectical authority with English, no one would consent to the overhaul.

But at least there would be a standard that they could learn so they wouldn't have to guess how to spell/pronounce similar words.

The problem with a phonetic language is that people who speak different dialects (Bostonians, Southerners, Jamaicans) will naturally be inclined to spell the words as THEY would spell them, and since there is no central dialectical authority with English, no one would consent to the overhaul.

Look at the Chinese language. Someone from Hong Kong would be speaking mostly gibberish to someone from Beijing. But written Chinese is the same for everyone in China, so they can still communicate with each other.

gm is right, words communicate concepts and ideas, and not sounds for the most part.

Every year, The Spelling Society that advocates this silly overhaul of English protests outside the National Spelling Bee. It really would cause way too many problems and solve none.

voice control has it's place, but it's very process intensive... plus.. accents and dialects for voice are hard to compute.

PLUS, do you really want to be sitting in a meeting, playing your phone/pda whispering into it.. or sitting in a lecture dictating to your pda (imaging you and 100 other people doing the same!)

What if you want to enter something private - voice control isn't private!

In the car when you're driving... now there's a perfect place for voice control.

by the way, this looks very very cool indeed

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C¤ηgяατς ΣĐĐ
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Congrats EDD - in a few dialects of L33t.

obligatory 4$$ 9r4\/33. As blankfist says, in my language of leet.

I was taught a different Dialect of Leet.

We studied a lot of the origins of English in highschool. It used to sound a whole-lot more like German. For example, "knight" used to be pronounced as it is spelled "kanigt" or "kanikt" perhaps. It just evolved until the printing press and dictionaries locked it into something close to its current dialects.

Great poem though.

yeah i agree with you, especially as european languages come from indian.

lithuanians and londoners use the double negative, but the BBC doesn't.

but...

i do think it is "uneducated" to speak only in your "mother" accent.

learn a different accent and use that for business. Why should business adapt to 10923782937 accents? that makes no sense. educate yourself, learn how to talk in the business arena. NOBODY is born talking business english, even "whites" have to learn it.

I sleep with a trilingual linguistics graduate, and i speak lithuanian (the most archaic indoeuropean language still alive) so you know, i get your point. but i think "tolerance" goes too far into the realm of "impractical" and "lazy".

I used to teach swimming, and i would use a posh correct english accent in the health club and a broad south london accent in the public pools in the rough neighbourhoods. Why not?


In reply to this comment by SDGundamX:
I'm not against having a standardized vocabulary, spelling, or grammar. What was specifically the topic of the video that comment was a reply to was the uproar over a black teacher teaching kids that they were "uneducated" if they said "axe" instead of "ask." And it simply isn't true. It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with English having multiple dialects. And historically, the dialect spoken by white Americans has always been considered okay, regardless of how far from the supposed standard it is (which is why I brought up the Boston pronunciation of "car" as "ca-" and the non-existent Southern contraction "y'all") while the dialects of minorities such as Black Americans and Latin Americans has traditionally been frowned upon.

Thinking there is a standard English pronunciation is delusional. There are accepted standards (plural) of English, most of which are based on white, affluent speech. Now that English is an international language, however, that will surely change. Take India, for instance. They say things like:

"Open the air conditioner."

Instead of:

"Turn on the air conditioner."

Is it wrong? Not if everyone in India talks that way. As more countries embrace English and make their own personalized changes to the language you'll see less arguing about what is "educated" and "uneducated" English and more open acceptance of the fact that people who live in different places speak English differently--and get along just fine without needing "standard" English.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
i see nothing wrong with there being a "business english" standard, or "bbc english". Of course it's not ebonics or half spanish.

I learned Lithuanian to help me get work in Lithuania. I don't swear in front of new clients. I don't walk around talkin fakkin sarf landan aksent and insistin dat peeples rispek my rights, innit.

almost all jobs involve speaking to people, and therefore the way you speak is part of your job performance. What's wrong with that?

In the UK there was a trend for putting call centres in scotland because the scottish accent was judged to be the most trustworthy. What should I do, cry "discrimination!" and insist on more call centres in liverpool (an accent nobody can understand or trust)?

bear in mind i am not at all anti immigration, i just think that it's normal to have a separate language and etiquette for business, and there's no way that's going to be based on a fringe accent, it's gonna get melted down to "average".

People never used to say "gonna" on TV. Now they do. Things change. It's ok. There's many other ways to oppress minorities if that's what you want to do. Eradicating accent prejudice is never ever going to work.

I'm not against having a standardized vocabulary, spelling, or grammar. What was specifically the topic of the video that comment was a reply to was the uproar over a black teacher teaching kids that they were "uneducated" if they said "axe" instead of "ask." And it simply isn't true. It has nothing to do with education and everything to do with English having multiple dialects. And historically, the dialect spoken by white Americans has always been considered okay, regardless of how far from the supposed standard it is (which is why I brought up the Boston pronunciation of "car" as "ca-" and the non-existent Southern contraction "y'all") while the dialects of minorities such as Black Americans and Latin Americans has traditionally been frowned upon.

Thinking there is a standard English pronunciation is delusional. There are accepted standards (plural) of English, most of which are based on white, affluent speech. Now that English is an international language, however, that will surely change. Take India, for instance. They say things like:

"Open the air conditioner."

Instead of:

"Turn on the air conditioner."

Is it wrong? Not if everyone in India talks that way. As more countries embrace English and make their own personalized changes to the language you'll see less arguing about what is "educated" and "uneducated" English and more open acceptance of the fact that people who live in different places speak English differently--and get along just fine without needing "standard" English.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
i see nothing wrong with there being a "business english" standard, or "bbc english". Of course it's not ebonics or half spanish.

I learned Lithuanian to help me get work in Lithuania. I don't swear in front of new clients. I don't walk around talkin fakkin sarf landan aksent and insistin dat peeples rispek my rights, innit.

almost all jobs involve speaking to people, and therefore the way you speak is part of your job performance. What's wrong with that?

In the UK there was a trend for putting call centres in scotland because the scottish accent was judged to be the most trustworthy. What should I do, cry "discrimination!" and insist on more call centres in liverpool (an accent nobody can understand or trust)?

bear in mind i am not at all anti immigration, i just think that it's normal to have a separate language and etiquette for business, and there's no way that's going to be based on a fringe accent, it's gonna get melted down to "average".

People never used to say "gonna" on TV. Now they do. Things change. It's ok. There's many other ways to oppress minorities if that's what you want to do. Eradicating accent prejudice is never ever going to work.

Watching them switch dialects, you can really tell how many social cues our speaking mannerisms carry.

Are we about to see periodic bursts of Texas-flavored, incoherent ranting and rambling from you? Because our resident hodgepodge of American dialect will see that as a come-on. And you know what Texans do to homo-sapiens...they stuff and mount them.

>> ^rottenseed:
I'm sorry blankfist. I didn't realize I was under your jurisdiction for strict adherence to this site's guidelines.
...now I'm going to go discard one of your posts that I don't like.

I sometimes think Pat is a christian in disguise, like Beaudelaire with his litanies to Satan, dialectically playing with fire.

Hey Pat, stop being so "protestant"!

Atheistic christianity ftw!

Lyrics:

Mr. President, Distinguished delegates...

[H.I.M. Haile Selassie I dialect]

[Bunny Wailer dialogue]
Since the beginning of modern civilization
Generations have witnessed and inherited the only conflicts of world wars
But behold the marriage supper of the lamb and the bridegroom onto his bride
Then shall the earth's children know the true expression of ONE LOVE
Then mother earth shall honeymoon in peace.
Forever eliminating the aspirations, lust and anguish of wars and rumors of wars...SELAH!

[Verse 1]
See it deh know the innocent going up in vapors
And propoganda spreading inna the sunday papers not even superman coulda save you with him cape cause
Red-a Judgement a blaze, blaze ya
And Babylon a gamble the youth dem life like racehorse
And gi dem a uniform and a shave dem head with razors
And now the clock a strike war, don't be amazed cause
inna dem churches tryin to save...saviours

[Marcus Garvey dialogue 1]
Can we do it? We can do it, we shall do it!

[Verse 2]
Boom!
Tell dem fe uh draw mi out when the world government inna falling out
Only few men survive crawling out
Run left him collegues dem sprawling out
NEARLY DEAD!
Medic haffi haul him out
And give him two tranquilizer fi stall him out
DEH PON BASE!
Can't get no calling out when him hear from the shout last week
Him mistress find a new shoes
Wife can't get no news and lately she starting to doubt
SHE STILL SEARCHING!
And the youth dem bawling out
Working hard not to let it all come out
Well it's not safe to go walk about
A slaughterhouse from Bagdad to Waterhouse
She start to arouse sometime she want a spouse
She start go out, start beat a darker stout
GUNS COME OUT!
Working people funds run out
Keep a show last week and no one come out
BOMBS COME OUT!
Mi gas tank just run out
BOMBO CLATT!
The scotch tape just run out
WEED RUN OUT!
Yuh senses must dumb out, Mi have a pound round a back deh a gwan sun out
NAH COME OUT!
Till the chalice bun out,
NAH COME OUT!
Till the malice bun out, A WAR!

Zimbabwe to Berlin Wall
Blazin' like a burnin' ball, loose ball...dat no work...IN WAR
Sleeping...dat no work..IN WAR
Can't wear jheri curl...IN WAR
No diamond and pearl...IN WAR
Can't drink weh a serve...IN BAR
Gas wi fuck up yuh nerves...IN WAR
Shot wi blood up yuh shirt...IN WAR
Can't go lift up no skirt...IN WAR
Now disease and germs...IN WAR
Can't go release your sperms...IN WAR
Stamina must preserve...IN WAR
Fire constantly burn...IN WAR
RED...IT RED...IT RED...IT RED...IT RED!

[Marcus Garvey dialogue 2]
If you cannot do it, if you are not prepared to do it...then you will die.
You race of cowards, you race of imbosiles, you race of good for nothings
If you cannot do what other men have done
What other nations have done, what other races have done
Then you yourself shall die.

[Repeat Verse 1]

[Verse 3]
SEE IT DEH NOW...Hey!
Now wi fore parents sacrifice enough
Dem blood sweat and tears run like syrup
Any day a revolution might erupt, and the skys over Kingston lighting up
For the new generation rising up, of youths now a days weh dem sighting up
And through reasoning dem biding up,
Searching for the sign and the sign is us,
Searching for the truth all you find is us,
Searching for the troops still behind is us,
The almighty we recruit and we come from the root
We build like roach building boot
Weh just can't done, Rastafari we design tuff
If a the fight for freedom sign me up
Cause you Tell-Lie-Vision can't blind me up
Soldiers and police dem wising up, realizing they're no more right than us
Realizing there's no use fighting us
Realizing their opening their eyes to see the same demoralizing life as us
So we nah tek talk nor smiling up
Cause the word temper tantrum boiling up,and who...
Calling the shots and nah bust none
Controlling the mind of the young, bring down...

Bear famine, no rain nah fall from London to Dadeland mall
All the son of the virgin bawl, institute of the church IN WAR
Preaching and researching WAR
Practice and rehearsing WAR
Teaching and dem learning WAR
Instigating and urging WAR
Always keep alert in WAR
Cause man will jump out a swerving car
Now bees and birds IN WAR
And the freaks and nerds IN WAR
And the straight and curves IN WAR
Forward and reverse IN WAR
RED...IT RED...IT RED...IT RED...IT RED.

[Marcus Garvey dialogue 2]

Great video!:)
Reminds me of
http://www.videosift.com/video/Curse-ov-Dialect-Bury-Me-Slowly-trippy

..and welcome to the sift!

>> ^RedSky:
hell I'm sure part of the reason people were laughing in the audience was that they simply didn't realise they held these deep seeded generalisations and laughed because they were made uncomfortable to be forced to confront them. (I switched "I'm" and "sure," but only cuz I'm sure it was a typo)

100% agreed.

>> ^RedSky:
some people would tend to gravitate from a harmless confrontation of a relatively amusing mannerism from one's culture's point of view to another, to extrapolated generalisations, oversimplification and eventual detachment and disassociation from groups of people they perceive as 'different'. If that's the case though, the problem isn't the contrasting of cultures, it's the cognitive chain of processes that leads you to that eventual conclusion. So, it may be a slippery slope, but only if your slope is slippery


I think we can agree that the only thing that increases the viscosity of such cognitive slopes is education (whether in school, at home, or whatever the context) and exposure to what anthropologists (like myself) call "the strange"--meaning any culture or set of behavioral characters one did not experience until one's identity was at least partially defined. From what I've seen since I started lurking here a year ago, I trust that the people in this audience (the Sift) have had that education and/or exposure (whether socialized into us or developed by automath)--hence my realization that this was a silly place to pick a fight. But I DO NOT trust the at-large public with the same sense of responsibility. And I suppose I've projected that categorization onto the audience present at Pinette's show and onto the casual viewer of this vid, albeit irrationally.

>> ^RedSky:
I don't believe he went over the line. Making fun of Asian dialects/accents and Indian cuisine? I would see no reason to be genuinely offended if someone made fun of my accent or choice of food. You or anyone else is free to have a differing opinion though, as that's certainly a normative statement.
I admit though that I'm white and have never really been culturally or ethnically discriminated against so I don't pretend to genuinely understand the issue from a first person point of view


I am also white, but my travels have brought me face to face with the true ugliness of racism one can only know when it rears itself against oneself (I expect anecdotes are not necessary, but they can be provided). As a lucky member of the underrated club of we who have come to know the world in the singular locale New York City, and perhaps because I was encouraged to love "the strange" very, very early in my development, I found myself able to mitigate the truly visceral hatred I felt in those moments. Racism elicits an immediate emotional--and sometimes psychosomatically physiological--response. It is not only unwise, but inequitable and irresponsible to require or expect the human animal to overcome that response.

I don't see illuminating unconscious stereotypes as a bad thing. It confronts people with their own ignorance, hell I'm sure part of the reason people were laughing in the audience was that they simply didn't realise they held these deep seeded generalisations and laughed because they were made uncomfortable to be forced to confront them.

No doubt stereotypes in general don't exactly help bridge racial or cultural barriers, and sure some people would tend to gravitate from a harmless confrontation of a relatively amusing mannerism from one's culture's point of view to another, to extrapolated generalisations, oversimplification and eventual detachment and disassociation from groups of people they perceive as 'different'. If that's the case though, the problem isn't the contrasting of cultures, it's the cognitive chain of processes that leads you to that eventual conclusion. So, it may be a slippery slope, but only if your slope is slippery Of course, some stereotypes are hardly harmless and are a tailor made to have this effect. Labelling illegal immigrants in the US as 'aliens' for example is blatant and shameless dehumanisation, most likely for political purposes.

In this case, in my opinion, I don't believe he went over the line. Making fun of Asian dialects/accents and Indian cuisine? I would see no reason to be genuinely offended if someone made fun of my accent or choice of food. You or anyone else is free to have a differing opinion though, as that's certainly a normative statement.

I admit though that I'm white and have never really been culturally or ethnically discriminated against so I don't pretend to genuinely understand the issue from a first person point of view, perhaps I am wrong.