In America, you have every right to ignore them unless they give a lawful command, which you must obey. They cannot arrest you for silence, or for ignoring a request. I'll take my brother's expensive lawyer's advice over anyone's, and he said the only answer allowed is "ask my lawyer", and to do what they command, but not what they ask.

The girl wasn't aggressively pushing to me, but she also wasn't complying with a lawful command. If the audio is any indication, she was trying to get her phone out of her pocket while lying down handcuffed. She should have complied, but they also should have put her all the way in like they're trained to do, not 3/4 of the way. It's easy and safe to open the other door and pull her another foot into the car where she can't block anything, and that doesn't result in a lawsuit and more public distrust, but that wouldn't teach her a lesson. Pepper spray is not as safe as that by far.

It's not cool to hate cops, and I really wish they would stop getting caught doing things that foster hatred. I want them to act in a way the public can always support, not the least patient and most aggressive they can legally justify in every situation. It would be good if they could be thinking 'how would I feel if someone did this to my daughter/son under the same conditions.
I doubt any of them would be ok with that happening to their child, tantrum or no. They could have been worse here, but also could have defused it all with a single simple command to sit at the beginning. Don't expect an irrational, young, scared girl to act like an adult...that's beyond the capabilities of most adults.

You can humbly submit to authority if you wish. My forefathers fought and died to secure my rights to not answer questions or submit to the every whim of authority, I'll not disrespect their sacrifices by waiving those hard won rights for authority's, or my own convenience.

It would be nice if 15 year old girls were civil, but few I've known are when cornered. I think that's the real reason for the spraying, but not an excuse imo. To me, the cop's pride needs to give way to reason and logic, or we'll keep paying out multi million dollar judgements.

Thailand, where I live now is called the "Land of Smiles". But I ran into some hiccups trying to fit in that conform to some of what the video said:

Basically, the "Land of Smiles" thing is pretty accurate -- generally Thais want to keep a (somewhat subdued) smile on their face. Even/particularly in frustrating/aggravating situations; Thais are extremely confrontation-averse and I think the smiling is a cultural adaptation to try to defuse those situations before they escalate.

BUT, when I first came here, I caught on to the "try to smile through all situations" culture but kind of went overboard on the enthusiasm in what I gather might be a typically American way. One time some Thais that I knew were introducing me to somebody that I hadn't met before. The new person didn't speak any English, and I couldn't speak much of any Thai at the time, so I was just trying to smile through the awkward second-hand introduction. Since I was just passively sitting back and smiling, the new person asked my friends if I was a "special person" -- a direct translation from Thai which means exactly the same thing that it does in English.

So I guess even in the "Land of Smiles", going overboard can make people think you're a bit dim...

3:44 lemon goes into B.
4:03 orange goes into A.

Bomb defused...

Defused *controversy

I think you gave the easy answer...call her parents. I bet you anything that if mama got on the phone and told her to leave class, she would do it right away. That makes way more sense than calling officer slam (his nickname at the school) to re-escalate a situation that had already calmed down.

Actually, she was not being arrested. She was only being removed, at first. At least that's what's been reported. That means that, at least at first, she was not 'resisting arrest', only 'resisting removal'.

I do agree, force is a FINAL resort, rightfully in the hands of police. My issue is it's often used as a PRIMARY resort (meaning it's often the first thing tried). There were MANY options available to the cop besides violence against a child, he didn't try anything once his command was ignored except unnecessary violence. For instance, he could have, with less force and no injury to anyone, dragged the girl and her desk out of the room and waited her out in the hallway, but instead he chose to react with severe violence to being 'disrespected' by a child.

Saying she 'brought it on herself', to me, is the same as saying abused women 'bring it on themselves' by not capitulating fast enough to their abusive spouses, and abused children 'bring it on themselves' by not being perfect at all times.
Even if you want to call what she did 'resisting arrest' (which I think I've already debunked, but may still be questioned), the force used was SO out of proportion and unnecessary that this officer has already been banned from all schools in the state, and will likely lose his job and money in the end. If her fellow students had not risked the same treatment by pulling out their phones and recording his actions, we would never have heard about this, and the poor girl would have a record for assaulting a police officer instead of an FBI investigation against the officer. That sounds like one more instance where always on-body cams might have defused the situation, because KNOWING he was on camera, I bet he would not have acted so rashly against a calm, non violent child.

EDIT: He's now been fired.

News clip about last night's defusal:
http://www.haz.de/Videos?bcpid=1896788706&bctid=4246007878001

Related picture gallery:
http://www.haz.de/Hannover/Fotostrecken-Hannover/Weltkriegsbombe-in-der-Suedstadt-entschaerft#n8688733-p1

Norwegian cops dont carry guns, Swedish carry, but I think the bar that they have for actually DRAWING the gun is extremely high. I dont know the statistics in either country, so it is an uninformed and anecdotal impression I get, that US cops seems to draw weapons almost as a default reflex in any situation they deem to be potentially dangerous.

There was a video on here a couple of days ago, where the cop was praised for not shooting the suspect, well that suspect seemed to be unarmed (crazy, and suspected murderer, sure, but still unarmed) What about alternative methods, ie: Talking calmly, trying to defuse the situation etc. before drawing? (Maybe that did happen before the video starts, but it doesnt seem that way)

Dear Police,
You are not the punishment part of our Justice System. Please refrain from beating or killing people when your life isn't in any actual danger. Please quit escalating situations. Instead, try to defuse the situation by speaking calmly, and not pulling your guns immediately while screaming orders because a guy is holding a screwdriver. If a suspect runs, take the time to try to catch them. If they are getting away from you, use the radio to request backup and give a detailed description instead of shooting them in the back.

There are two parts to the trap, the trigger and the ordinance. He was exposing the ordinance part and disconnecting it while staying well away from the trigger. The second part, once the device was defused, was digging up the trigger mechanism.

Had he attempted to do that part first the video would have been rather different.

In the second world war bomb designers set traps for the defuser, but these devices seem rather simpler, they're often made out of home appliances or repurposed shells rather than being purpose built.

When you say .." I have consistently said Carter was my favorite recent president.." That all I need to know how lost you are with reality.

The president provides leadership for USA and for the world. The world looks to us for stability and he provider of help when others are in need.

I didn't know what to think of Ron Paul idea about being a non interventionist. Obama has lifted the hand of interventionism off Arab nations and now we have a shit storm of assassins and killers who desire to kill everyone. Everyone knows this But OBAMA who for what ever reason fails to see this world danger. Now it will take the world decades to fight is battle. Sure these might have had a shitty American backed leader but their peoples were not mass murdered on wholesale levels like ISIS is doing.

We had domestic terrorist attacks. Fort Hood shooting (13 killed) , Boston bombing, and the car bomb that was defused in NYC. Many more stopped. There will be more blood shed on our soil in the name of ALLAH. This is a world wide problem.

Obama is the worst because of this and on domestic side he is a failure because he is steadfast with my way or the highway approach. 6 years and still a shitty economy, real employment is hovering just below 10%, IF you lost you job today do you think you would be able to get another straight away at the same pay? I don't

Salaries have continued to stagnate over last 20 years but under this leadership salaries have lost 4K.

Democrats got a historic spanking this recent midterm and Obama still thinks he can do what ever he thinks. He is delusional.

Times did get better with Regan and Clinton, The Bushes sucked.



History will be the judge, we are just spectators.

Thought you would appreciate just how epic this CS diffuse is
http://videosift.com/video/Best-Counter-Strike-ninja-defuse-ever

Pretty much on point. Its one thing to protest with no idea what position the police or school have on the subject, it is entirely different point to see both sides of the situation and presented with evidence see how fault could be found either way. Howe had been told what the new rule was and after the fact has stated that like it or not he has to follow the rule. The officer is a dumb ass who started with the high ground (in that by school policy he was correct) and took a shit all over it by using it to sour the situation. The lady at the desk was at least trying to help get Howe his kids and defuse the situation despite having her hands tied by the policy. All of this is a shitty situation caused by a poorly thought out policy, but despite this the correct way to deal with it would be to argue the policy in the correct forum and not get into an argument in a place where the school and the officer have a catch 22 of breaking policy and facing repercussion or upholding policy and looking like the assholes the video made them out to be.

Since when is "crazy" or "insane" a dirty, mean word you can not use for mentally ill people? She is clearly not ok in the head, her behaviour meets the exact definition of "crazy" and "insane". It's not like she has a severe case of depression, then it would be inappropriate, she is cleary delusional.
However, I certainly don't like the idea represented here that she might become a homicidal maniac, that she's a ticking timebomb that needs defusing. She may be scary but that doesn't mean she's automatically dangerous. I'd rather worry about all the drunk people with car keys in their pockets.
What this lady needs is help by professionals and not simply be thrown in an institution. She isn't a broken toy that you store in the attic, she needs treatment and certainly medication. Dragging her out of her house and throwing her in a padded cell won't make her paranoia better.

Common sense does not indicate that you should abandon your rights just because some uneducated (or possibly crooked) cop decides he wants to violate your rights (i.e. break the law).

They are not provoking anyone by being within the law. If the police are enforcing the law then they are also bound by those laws (of course the police have specific exemptions from some laws - but this is also a law in and of itself).

In this particular case the police officers are clearly provoking them, breaking the law, and escalating the situation. Those young guys did everything they could to defuse the situation - including in the end allowing their rights to be violated and watch the police break the law.

Your suggestion that they just allow the police to violate their rights/break the law in the first instance, without any complaint, is the voice of the downtrodden seeking to not anger the bully.

>> ^KnivesOut:

@shinyblurry so you're being divisive by disagreeing with Obama. You should stop being so divisive. You're being divisive by disagreeing with me. You should stop being so divisive.
It's pretty simple: the President said he would work to defuse the partisan politics that were/are tearing our country apart. The Republicans said "No" and took their ball and went home. So he was left with an unfulfilled "promise". It's ridiculous to hold him singularly accountable for attempting to negotiate with religious zealots and morons, and failing to break their dead-lock of stupidity.
Yes, it's amusing that simpletons like yourself can't comprehend the actual nuances of bipartisanship in government.


The fact is, he didn't even try. He used the supermajority in congress to do whatever he wanted, in direct contradiction to his promises. It's a character issue, but you handwave it because you hate republicans and it doesn't matter to you how he treats them. I also wonder if it's possible for you to go more than one post without using abusive ad hominem attacks.