Makes me think of the religion of Consumerism. I hear that this year's Consumerist holiday is November 25th, when the poor donate their money to the wealthy in exchange for "blessings."

I understand the "one voice won't make a difference" philosophy, but isn't that, in the same breath, admitting that a protest is futile? >> ^NetRunner:

@rottenseed, my read of that declaration is that it isn't so much about trying to win a war against consumerism and greed, so much as a call for the restoration of the rule of law and democracy.
And spare me the BS about boycotts being the proper way to deal with every issue of corporate malfeasance.
Is my refusal to buy Apple products making them take steps to improve the working conditions at Foxconn? You tell me, am I winning?
If I start riding my bike to work from now on, will that make oil companies improve their safety on offshore oil wells?
If I move my checking account from Bank of America to a local credit union, am I really going to make Wall Street stop defrauding people?
Boycotts just won't get the job done. People can shop at farmer's markets, and spuriously boycott this company or that company, but has any boycott ever really resulted in an entire industry changing how they behave?
Maybe the protests won't go anywhere either, but they might wind up bringing real change too. It's happened before, it could happen again.

@rottenseed, my read of that declaration is that it isn't so much about trying to win a war against consumerism and greed, so much as a call for the restoration of the rule of law and democracy.

And spare me the BS about boycotts being the proper way to deal with every issue of corporate malfeasance.

Is my refusal to buy Apple products making them take steps to improve the working conditions at Foxconn? You tell me, am I winning?

If I start riding my bike to work from now on, will that make oil companies improve their safety on offshore oil wells?

If I move my checking account from Bank of America to a local credit union, am I really going to make Wall Street stop defrauding people?

Boycotts just won't get the job done. People can shop at farmer's markets, and spuriously boycott this company or that company, but has any boycott ever really resulted in an entire industry changing how they behave?

Maybe the protests won't go anywhere either, but they might wind up bringing real change too. It's happened before, it could happen again.

yeah somehow we've idly watched this go down. not everyone of course, but a very large percentage of the populace, whether through propaganda or socialization, is both complacent and stuck on warped ideas of status and achievement. We've idolized the rich, even though they mostly schemed their way to the top at the expense of everyone. But "consumerism" as a psychological movement has really supported these notions...and has really helped keep us self-focused and self-indulgent....and our focus on our own individual accumulation of goods, status, and wealth blinds us to what is happening all around us. we erect our own psychological barriers to higher awareness.

and there seems to be a vast difference between awareness and what we normally consider to be intelligence. what do you think?

Consumerism continually tells us how smart, special and awesome we are in order to sell us goods. They don't sell on the quality of the good. they sell to the emotional side of us. Like religion, they convince us that we're special, and entitled.

i think the problem with that is that when we buy into how smart, special, and awesome we are, our self-centered psyche then misses what is happening around us.
How smart are we when mass extinction is occurring on this planet, global warming threatens our very existence, and crooks are stealing our future from under our noses?
i think we need to get over ourselves
imho

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

They complain about Wallstreet greed---but isn't mainstreet evil too? (@NetRunner and @dystopianfuturetoday) The 99% must change first, me thinks... (P.s., I will still respond to the other thread--hopefully tonight. This comment was just a musing of mine.)

>> ^NinjaInHeat:

As much as I'm loving this rant, Louis is making some inconsistent arguments, especially regarding Apple. He starts by presenting Apple and Microsoft as the 'Tesla and Edison' of our age and saying how lucky we are to have escaped the clutches of Bill's inferior technology and his evil empire, then he goes on to rant about the state of online consumerism today and how we've abandoned certain ideals for the sake of comfort.
Honestly it just feels like ignorance on the subject on his part. In this argument he's making, if anything, the 'Microsoft' era would be the equivalent of the 'local businesses' and Apple would be the Starbucks. Not that I'm suggesting Microsoft is a small business, but from a consumer point of view - the rise of Apple is an exact example of the process he's describing, he even admits it by ranting about iTunes, how we all 'share' our likes, god-forbid we 'exist on the fringes'. Apple IS a big 'fuck you' to anything independent, it's the personification of the 'evil corporate empire' he's talking about. But they make a PC that looks nicer and an OS that works smoother, so fuck all that idealistic shit, let's just buy their products and welcome our new overlords in all things technology-related.
I honestly do not understand how Apple have generated this public image of excellence for themselves, a future in which these types of business practices are common-practice in silicon valley is a scary one...


To me it's not ignorance because he's obviously knowledgeable about the subject matter. The problem is this is a radio show and he's supposed to be off the cuff this isn't a prepared rant or anything like that it's stuff that's in his head rattling around and some of it may be a bit more polished than other parts.

If he say ordered his thoughts into a paper say or a talk and presented a case then it would be much more coherent. We can't expect everyone to be coherent especially when they're going off the trial from accepted dogma. If you tune into a political program and someone says "Iran is evil cause they are doing.." whatever, it's taken as read. Iran is evil, they're being accused of evil things blah blah blah don't need any more information it's accepted, mainstream thought. If however someone comes on and says something like Chomsky's quote "education is a system of imposed ignorance" that's a seriously against the grain statement...it seems to make no sense. You'd need a LOT of examples and well ordered explaination to break down the already ingrained beliefs.

So Louis CK maybe a bit all over the place...that's cause he's not giving a talk or presenting a paper. He's speaking off the cuff on a radio program and I think we can give him a pass because he's doing his job, being entertaining. He's not a professor he's a comedian.

>> ^Edgeman2112:

That aside, what they protest is right. I hope it doesn't evolve into some political message because then it will be labeled as liberal and discarded. If it's societal, that's an entirely different thing.

A societal message that disavows greed and consumerism is going to be labeled liberal and discarded.

>> ^criticalthud:

@DerHassittot
totally, the puritan ethos is insidious
i like to think the linchpin in the puritan ethos is "specialness" - endow everyone as god's chosen, or god's little lamb and you can start demanding through expectation and guilt. We end up with a bunch of selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed jerks who are out to prove and maintain their own egocentricity, to the exclusion of everyone and everything around them. it's what consumerism sells to. on an individual basis it ain't a big deal, but on a collective basis it's eating the planet.


Hey @DerHasisttot, criticalthud is trying to communicate with you ^

@DerHassittot
totally, the puritan ethos is insidious

i like to think the linchpin in the puritan ethos is "specialness" - endow everyone as god's chosen, or god's little lamb and you can start demanding through expectation and guilt. We end up with a bunch of selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed jerks who are out to prove and maintain their own egocentricity, to the exclusion of everyone and everything around them. it's what consumerism sells to. on an individual basis it ain't a big deal, but on a collective basis it's eating the planet.

>> ^petpeeved:

If nothing else, it's a day of national reflection in a country if not outright hostile to introspection in general (gets in the way of consumerism) then definitely not inclined to it.
We need more soul searching as a nation, not less.


It should be that, and for anyone who treats the anniversary as an opportunity to reflect and search their soul, they have my respect. I don't believe that is what he was railing against.

But rather the way much of the news media makes it into an all-day annual event, produced like a schmaltzy patriotic movie. It's very often the opposite of thoughtful reflection, but feels more like non-stop shameless pandering. The most irritating sort of politics applied to a historic tragedy.

I guess it all depends on what broadcasts you've seen or listened to on the anniversary.

I think he's wrong in only the way a very young man with no emotional investment in a situation can be wrong and yet be so convinced of his rightness.

If nothing else, it's a day of national reflection in a country if not outright hostile to introspection in general (gets in the way of consumerism) then definitely not inclined to it.

We need more soul searching as a nation, not less.

Move along, nothing to see here. Global warming is a myth. Get back in your SUVs and go to the mall. Only your continued consumerism can save the economy.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Such rich and ironic social commentary. They reject the violence of modern western culture, yet at the same time freely clothe themselves in the brands, designer labels and consumerism of their oppressors. They defy culture, whilst at the same time conforming to commercialized media standards of fashion and behavior. Such is the contradiction of being an activist hamster in contemporary American culture.


If its good enough for Japan its good enough for Hamsters.

Such rich and ironic social commentary. They reject the violence of modern western culture, yet at the same time freely clothe themselves in the brands, designer labels and consumerism of their oppressors. They defy culture, whilst at the same time conforming to commercialized media standards of fashion and behavior. Such is the contradiction of being an activist hamster in contemporary American culture.

>> ^ipfreely:


For every one of these idiots, I'm sure there are hundreds of people who are in the same situation but did not riot and loot. Fuck you idiot, people like you make me sick.




>> ^criticalthud:
Well he's right. they're morons and assholes.
but still, they are an end result of a more general shift in the overall satisfaction of the populace.
unemployment
bank bailouts
cut services
wealth gap
consumerism
war



that was the point. you should read more carefully.
duh.

Are you fucking out of your mind?

For every one of these idiots, I'm sure there are hundreds of people who are in the same situation but did not riot and loot. Fuck you idiot, people like you make me sick.

Stop giving these scum bags excuses.

Also Stop with your "Restrict Communications" crap. Twitter, Facebook are just a tool to communication, it's not stop your freedom of speech. Sheeesh...

What the fuck... Are you going to tell me if the internet or mobile services were down, revolution wouldn't happen in places like Cairo?!?! Are you some sort of idiot.



>> ^criticalthud:

Well he's right. they're morons and assholes.
but still, they are an end result of a more general shift in the overall satisfaction of the populace.
unemployment
bank bailouts
cut services
wealth gap
consumerism
war