@ChaosEngine

hehe,specifically it was a dude i was in boot camp with.he was a massive hendrix and zeppelin fan and was not into sabbath.which of course our first liberty we both got drunk and traded our favorite songs from both bands.

but i even heard it when i moved to jacksonville florida.everybody told me that zeppelin were the masters of metal and sabbath were only good for a couple of songs.

say whaaaaaaaa?

i had to show them the error of their ways.

i was stationed at NaS jax for a few months for S.A.R training and i got to witness some of the training seals have to endure,and also heard first hand from some of the seal members (who all have to be S.A.R qualified).

it makes boot camp look like a romp in disneyland.

@chingalera
to say that every person who joins the military has some form of broken empathy system is just not accurate.
do they exist?
well i would have to concede that they do.what those numbers are is not something that can be quantified.(i looked..came up with nada).

i was in the military.
many people were in the military and they all had different reasons for joining.
for some it was a way out of poverty.
others it was duty.(which was my case)
some even due to a sense of honor and to fight for freedom.(yeah yeah..we both know how that reason turned out for them).

and i am sure sprinkled in that number of recruits were the sociopaths and psychopaths,and the number may have possibly risen due to the abolishment of conscription.

when you understand that boot camp is basically brainwashing 101.the young and fairly innocent are the easiest to break down and build back up in the model that you wish them to be.

killing is NOT a natural human activity.
it needs to be taught.
and who better than an 18 yr old?

for people such as you or i,who have a lifetime of experience,morality and well established egocentric systems in place this brainwashing would almost certainly fail.

who am i kidding....it failed when i was 18.i had a huge problem with authority even then.so i did my tour and opted out.

understand i am not making a moral argument for or against the military,just that these young men all had their reasons for joining and not all of them were to kill other humans.

and yes.
the military aint for everybody.

death education?

yeah. I was with the video for the first couple minutes, but then it degenerates into paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Education system sucks, but it's not quite that bad. There is plenty of dissent in our system, maybe there isn't enough critical thinking, but this video acts like it's squashed utterly which is bull.

it just seems to me that the guy went through boot camp and is confusing it with the rest of the world.

His example of the TV anchors regurgitating the same headlines verbatim is just a bit unfair. sure it's a bit depressing to hear anchors repeat the same line exactly but that's what anchors are. They're paid to look good and read the news and that's it. if you're just trying to stay in touch with what's going on, that's all you need. If you want in depth analysis. That's not what your daily news is for.

I haven't handled a pistol since 1983 in boot camp. All I need to do in Oregon to get a CCW is watch a video online, take an online test, pay to download the certificate, and take the certificate to the Sheriff's office for my permit. I wouldn't want me carrying a gun in public, but I could if I wanted to, with virtually no experience or training. Now, guns are not my thing. I don't want one. I'm relatively sane, but if I wasn't, if the world was cruel and oppressive and needed a dark knight, getting a CCW would be just as easy.

This video shows simply and clearly that things very often don't go as you plan when you find yourself in a very stressful and scary situation, and that the training required to perform spontaneously and correctly in such situations must be ongoing, something the vast, vast majority of CCW's would be unable or unwilling to do. Would they have performed better had the "drill" happened when they were told it would happen? Maybe, but that isn't how things unfold in RL now, is it? Sometimes it's an elementary school classroom full of six and seven year-olds, or with smoke bombs in a movie theater, or outside the food court at a mall, or even, like this video, in a lecture hall at a school.

So drop the paranoid, ulterior-motive bullshit. "Dubious"? You sound like a child.

@Duncan And yet this is the commonly suggested course of action for those overweight. Eat 1000-1200 calories a day, and exercise. That's a recipe for disaster. Further, your claim that if you intake fewer calories than you expend you will lose weight. This is not necessarily true. Your body is not a bunsen burner. That's why we have terms like "metabolism" as in so and so has a high metabolism or a low metabolism. In other words, some people can eat and eat and eat, and their body will simply convert the excess energy into heat. For others, that energy is stored as fat. My claim is that there are people for whom prolonged caloric restriction will not result in continued weight loss. Instead the body will continue to store the energy it receives as fat and your brain will be deprived of the energy it needs to allow activity levels necessary to burn anything off. Even with continued restriction. There are cases (e.g. with OCD patients) that prolonged weight loss can be achieved, but often it's simply impossible.

With regards to "life-style change," I agree. It's necessary. However, losing weight isn't. Much more success has been reported encouraging an active lifestyle. Eat until you are sated. That's okay (assuming you don't have a broken sensory system in that regard). People that pursue this approach will usually not lose weight, but they will become healthy. All of their bio-markers (e.g. cholesterol) often come into check. They are active, happy, and healthy. Yet still, people would somehow feel justified sending them a letter telling fatty to get off their ass.

I'll give an example. I watched my girl eat 1200 calories a day for six months. She's 5'2" at 180. The first month of this brought her down to 165/170, but the following five brought her no further. I watched her. She measured every meal with a measuring cup. She's also a geneticist, so she knows a thing or two about the relevant biochem. She was depressed as hell, and her activity level dropped. She was miserable and didn't even really lose substantial weight.

Now, she bikes at least 10-12 hilly miles a day, swims a couple miles three times a week, and does yoga. She eats when she's hungry and stops when she's full. She eats healthily for the most part, but rewards herself with a sweet now and again. Every measure known to correlate with health shows that she is healthy despite her weight. People call her fat all the time. There's just no need. Her doctor doesn't, because many doctors these days know BMI is a bullshit measure. She's not a weird case. I mentioned by buddy the pullup champ in a previous post. The dude was vegetarian in boot camp. He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him, and can do effectively perpetual pushups. He's technically "obese." For a medical term, it's about as useful as "idiot."

The fact is evidence is mounting that your disposition towards retaining fat probably has more to do with what was eaten by your mother during pregnancy than anything you do in your lifetime (other than maybe early childhood). Your body has a weight it would like to keep, and it will succeed in keeping it. If people would just change the societal pressure towards becoming healthy rather than losing weight people doomed to carry extra pounds wouldn't have to feel like outcasts, and would probably be more likely to pursue the correct goal. Instead, most people here seem to think it's okay to berate strangers about their weight. Let them talk to their doctor. If their doctor is good with it, you probably should be too.

@scannex Dude... are you really citing a marketing campaign for weight loss pushers? I bet you I could find data that shows the effectiveness of penis enhancement pills too. If you took a few you might find you like 'em thick ;-). Try some primary literature, and I'll respond in kind.

Try to refute this claim: "Overweight or mildly obese individuals with otherwise normal bio-markers show no decrease in life expectancy from normal."

If you can't, then tell me why it is okay to berate someone about their weight knowing nothing about their health overall?

@shinyblurry

i totally get the point.
your comment was a passive aggressive jab at hpqp.

@hpqp has a valid point in regards to taking advantage of a persons weakened emotional and mental state to spread the word.
using this video we are shown an almost glee from the hand-full of evangelicals represented here in exploiting these weakened (and therefore malleable) and i find it disgusting,reprehensible and yes..outrageous.
the glee is something that has me particularly enraged.how DARE they pervert the word in order to promote their own twisted understanding.
they should feel shame,not glee.

now the second part of your comment directed towards me actually has a different tone and one i am not against,and i would assume most are not either.when we consider the unjust wars being fought and the number of innocents being slaughtered,are we really surprised at the rising suicide count in the military?
well..we shouldnt be.
warriors sent to war but stripped of honor can only lead to an ocean of guilt,shame and regret.
so i would agree with you that finding solace in christ in the form of forgiveness and absolution can be a great healing process.

but that is not what this video is about.
this video is about exploiting youth,extremely stressed to the point of breaking at boot camp.not some war ravaged outpost where the men are clinging to sanity.this is exploitation.

maybe you could have focused your comment content on those points on the latter part of your comment towards me.they were valid if not totally relevant to the video.there was no reason to take a swipe at hpqp.

hpqp is an atheist.
he/she makes no bones about that.
just like you are an evangelical and also make no bones.
this is not a bad but rather a very good thing for you both know where you stand.
and just because these military chaplains are evangelical does not mean they represent all evangelicals.
what they are doing in the name of christ is wrong and just because hpqp is an atheist does not mean he/she does not have the right to call them on their bullshit.
and you should not be defending them but rather siding with hpqp.

oh, no need to apologise. i did assume it was directed at me personally, so my bad.
/manly handshake with a twist

In reply to this comment by enoch:
you know i just reread my comment on the military post.
i didnt mean to come across as condescending.i am full aware of your interest in psychology and was just trying to add a personal perspective.

guess i could have chosen my words more carefully.i was using your comment to illuminate on a broader scale how they basically brainwash you in boot camp.
i truly did not mean for it to come across in any other way.
i just used your comment as a spring board but it really wasnt directed towards you.

epic fail on my part.
forgive? /bats eyes

you know i just reread my comment on the military post.
i didnt mean to come across as condescending.i am full aware of your interest in psychology and was just trying to add a personal perspective.

guess i could have chosen my words more carefully.i was using your comment to illuminate on a broader scale how they basically brainwash you in boot camp.
i truly did not mean for it to come across in any other way.
i just used your comment as a spring board but it really wasnt directed towards you.

epic fail on my part.
forgive? /bats eyes

um...... yes. man this is getting pretty weird. i thought you kinda knew me. guess not.

>> ^enoch:

>> ^berticus:
the psychology of the military fascinates me
"it's a game you have to play"
"too busy trying not to piss yourself"
"stripped of your dignity"
so bizarre

boot camp is all about psychology.
think about it.
it is NOT a natural state of being to shoot another human in the face,therefore it is imperative to strip that human of all self-identifiers in order to build them back up and incorporate them into the group paradigm.
one of the most powerful tools they use as @Skeeve mentioned is how they punish the entire company for an infraction YOU incurred.thats a mighty powerful motivator when you have 80 dudes staring at you with rage in their eyes.(i was lucky to never have experienced that particular discomfort).
you do realize after a short while that it is all a game (or mindfuck) but whats even MORE interesting is that even though you are aware of the manipulation you still fall in line with the group.
i was 17 when i joined (you could do that back then).speaking only for myself i remember that i adopted a "you cant beat me,i am not going to quit" mentality.which is EXACTLY the mentality they wanted.they took my defiance and made it work for them.
i was manipulated from the get-go and even when i became aware of that fact i still played their game by their rules.

>> ^Skeeve:

I love hearing comments about "boot camp" from people who have never been near the military.
There are quite a few reasons why people don't punch their drill instructors. In my experience, the people with "tough guy" attitudes who think they wouldn't stand for that treatment lose that attitude pretty damn quickly.
Most recruits, as @enoch pointed out, are already scared shitless from being away from home for the first time. Those with a little more life experience realize that its a game you have to play to become a soldier/sailor/airman and would be just as likely to attack their drill instructor as they would be to attack their interviewer for a desk job.
And they all know that if they make things more difficult than they actually are (argue, don't give it your all, etc.) the staff are going to make the whole group go through hell and they will be hated by their whole platoon.
Plus, these aren't conscripts, they are there because they want to be there, or they have no other option. Doing something stupid, like attacking an instructor because he yelled at them, is only going to make things worse.
>> ^TheGenk:
A perfect example of why I did alternative civilian service rather than serve in the military; a few seconds into this the instructor would have been lying on the ground and I would have gone to the brig for punching a superior officer.

>> ^hpqp:
When I got the gist of the video I waited through the whole minute of it for Sgt A. Hole to get a gun butt to the gums. I am disappoint.

>> ^Kofi:
Just wait til they meet in the toilets after. Someones gonna go full metal jacket on his ass.



These points don't change the fact that you are all scum! Maggots who don't deserve to be in my beloved Core!

>> ^berticus:

the psychology of the military fascinates me
"it's a game you have to play"
"too busy trying not to piss yourself"
"stripped of your dignity"
so bizarre


boot camp is all about psychology.
think about it.
it is NOT a natural state of being to shoot another human in the face,therefore it is imperative to strip that human of all self-identifiers in order to build them back up and incorporate them into the group paradigm.

one of the most powerful tools they use as @Skeeve mentioned is how they punish the entire company for an infraction YOU incurred.thats a mighty powerful motivator when you have 80 dudes staring at you with rage in their eyes.(i was lucky to never have experienced that particular discomfort).

you do realize after a short while that it is all a game (or mindfuck) but whats even MORE interesting is that even though you are aware of the manipulation you still fall in line with the group.

i was 17 when i joined (you could do that back then).speaking only for myself i remember that i adopted a "you cant beat me,i am not going to quit" mentality.which is EXACTLY the mentality they wanted.they took my defiance and made it work for them.
i was manipulated from the get-go and even when i became aware of that fact i still played their game by their rules.

^ what enoch and skeeve said

as a marine vet let me assure you that boot camp, et al, is where the talk-the-talk 'tough' become the walk-the-walk truly tough, both physically and mentally -- you are first stripped of your dignity and soon enough earn it back, and more so, through merit

that said, this appears to be some kind of ROTC or JROTC event rather than a usmc drill instructor training marine recruits

I love hearing comments about "boot camp" from people who have never been near the military.

There are quite a few reasons why people don't punch their drill instructors. In my experience, the people with "tough guy" attitudes who think they wouldn't stand for that treatment lose that attitude pretty damn quickly.

Most recruits, as @enoch pointed out, are already scared shitless from being away from home for the first time. Those with a little more life experience realize that its a game you have to play to become a soldier/sailor/airman and would be just as likely to attack their drill instructor as they would be to attack their interviewer for a desk job.

And they all know that if they make things more difficult than they actually are (argue, don't give it your all, etc.) the staff are going to make the whole group go through hell and they will be hated by their whole platoon.

Plus, these aren't conscripts, they are there because they want to be there, or they have no other option. Doing something stupid, like attacking an instructor because he yelled at them, is only going to make things worse.
>> ^TheGenk:

A perfect example of why I did alternative civilian service rather than serve in the military; a few seconds into this the instructor would have been lying on the ground and I would have gone to the brig for punching a superior officer.


>> ^hpqp:

When I got the gist of the video I waited through the whole minute of it for Sgt A. Hole to get a gun butt to the gums. I am disappoint.


>> ^Kofi:

Just wait til they meet in the toilets after. Someones gonna go full metal jacket on his ass.

you guys never served in the military did ya?
because if ya did you would know that even the thought of smashing a gun butt to drill sarges face would never happen.
you were too busy trying not to piss yourself.

welcome to boot camp MAGGOTS!
this is the place we strip you of any self identity in order to build you in to a lean,mean fighting machine.

you are 18.
this is your first time away from home and you got some testosterone junkie in your face like he just found out you slept with his childhood sweet-heart.

so,yeah.
slamming him in his face is the last thing on your mind.
thinking you may have made a bad decision by joining?
weeeell,thats pretty high up on the "wtf did i do?" list.