There are a few problems with that, and they all end up at the same issue, lobbying.
Police unions are incredibly powerful lobbyists and do lobby against the public's interests, and they use the threat of striking, leaving the public with zero law enforcement, to squash any attempt to regulate them.....and when that fails, the sheriffs and chiefs often just ignore the new laws, like they did about making discipline records public in CA, they just said "nope" and refused to release them, many departments held bonfires where they burned these records to ensure they would never, under any circumstances, become public knowledge....still today, even long after the law went into effect Jan. 1st and has been upheld in courts, the A.G. just outright refused again to follow state law and release these public records. Pretty damn hard to establish an effective oversight body when police have the ability to erase all information they wish by any means with no repercussions.

Second, the prison guard union is the best funded, most powerful private/union lobbying group in America, and they do actually write laws for representatives to present. It's clearly in their best interest to force the desperate to be criminals, it's their bread and butter. They fight to expand minimum sentencing, incarcerate 14 year olds as adults for life, continue and expand the failed drug war, oppose any rescinding of criminal laws, have tried to reinstate debtor's prisons, criminalized multiple civil crimes, etc....incarceration is their business, and business is good.

So while I agree, there are numerous better systems that serve everyone much better with less money , less incarceration, and less recidivism, until we revamp our political system to make it illegal to bribe politicians (and make no mistake, it's perfectly legal to bribe them with campaign donations or promises of massive support), there is no way in hell it's going to improve and a near certainty it will continue to get worse because there's money to be made by locking people up.

They should have enough wood for the H.S. football bonfire this year.

related:
http://videosift.com/video/Worlds-Biggest-Bonfire-2010

meh. thats a weak bonfire. They didnt have a central support so it leaned and fell over way early. They didnt ignite it properly so it only burned on one side making it fall over prematurely. The materials used was weak also which weaken the structure.

it was pretty lame actually. I wouldnt even call it a bonfire.

This is what a bonfire should look like.
https://youtu.be/GQTa-qeqHUM?t=23m28s

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ExxonMobil had the Bush administration lobbying strongly to replace the chair of the IPCC with a more agreeable alternative, which we know about because of a leaked memo. So let us not pretend that the IPCC are above the skepticism of being politically influenced. The name "intergovernmental panel" says it all, in my opinion; i had assumed the I stood for Independent.

I don't apologise for not reading the entire thread because i noticed that in your first post you said the following, and it gave me cause to doubt your take on the science in the rest of the thread. I've been in too many discussions in which i spent hours researching only to find out people were completely wrong, and i spent 45 mins on your first paragraph already. Anyway here is the quote again:

"IPCC best estimates for 2100 are about 1.5 degree increase, so another hundred years and increase that is about twice as bad. Of course, it's twice as bad as what we saw the last 100 yeas and not only survived, but thrived under."

Firstly, the planet's flora and fauna have most certainly NOT thrived during that time. Humans have flourished by exploiting nature, so yes we have 'thrived'. In the same way that if i were to steal money from a dozen old ladies, i might say i was thriving even though i was out of work during the economic downturn. Pretty much every source agrees that the one thing the ecosystem is not doing is thriving - we are in or on the verge of the sixth mass extinction on the planet. So this is an inspiring yet futile "hurrah for us!" bravado that ignores the truth; we stand on the deck of a galleon around a big bonfire, ripping up planks and chopping up the boat, throwing it on the fire and going "we're all lovely and warm!" as we sit lower and lower in the water.

Secondly and in my opinion most significantly, according to the IPCC conclusions on page 8 you have used the term "best estimates" to mean "best case scenario" rather than "most reliable estimate" - which is why i have downvoted that comment, as it is misleading and incorrect. I would say it's cynically misleading, but i suspect you've lifted that from a cynical source rather than being cynical yourself.

I don't know if you realise, but you referred to only one result out of four, the rest of which strongly indicate a greater than 2 degree rise. Your reference is to RCP 2.6 which assumes CO2 emissions peak between 2010 and 2020. A decade in which the most populous countries on the planet are developing and a decade in which we must start to reduce global emissions so that we have a good chance of your best case scenario happening. We are already half way through it, and according to Mauna Loa observatory and every other source i could find (including EPA, NOAA and IEA) we are still increasing our CO2 emissions year on year including this year, where we've broken the 400ppm milestone, 120ppm greater than pre industrial times, half of which occured since 1980 (Pieter Tans).

So in fairness, you might have underplayed the IPCC report (which you seem to get almost all of your information from) in as much as newtboy might have overestimated the dangers and rapidity of climate change. I think you're out on a limb by telling him that the scientific community disagrees with him and he's using dodgy sources, when you've cherry picked one quarter of a conclusion from one source (the IPCC) to argue for your best case scenario which you refer to (unscientifically and incorrectly) as the "best estimate".

However, i do at least appreciate that despite your doubts (and in my opinion, slight confusion over the results, i don't think you're being intentionally misleading) you are very much behind changing our behaviour and using resources that are more appropriate... and that's what really matters right now is that people recognise the need to change.

Heh, i live in Kokkola.. We are the neighboring town for Jakobstad and that's where Sara comes from She lived here for couple of years doing music studies.

Kokko is also an old word for an eagle and while Kokkola is understood now as "place for bonfires", it actually comes "place for eagles" as legend says that eagles liked to rest on the rock in the bay. "City that rose from the sea" is is accurate description as around 1200s there were only the exact hill i live on and one other places above the water.. In fact, there is still an old smugglers tunnel, less than 50m away from where i sit right now that leads to the old shoreline, maybe 200m long that was used in 1600s. The sea itself is now about 3-4km from here.

The good news is, i could sit here for a hundred years without fearing rising sea waters.. Not that i intend to but i could.

These comments are fun. Sounds like a bunch of old men, sitting on the porch yelling at the kids on the street.

"Stop foolin' around with that wood out there. Don't jump your bicycles over that! Get out of the road!!"

Take risks when you're young because the negative consequences are mostly restricted to your own stupid self. Later in life you'll have too many responsibilities and obligations. We've given up a lot in our modern societies. By sanitizing and padding our life experiences, we've lost the connection to the deep animal part of our brain.

There are still places in the world, even first world industrialized nations, where public ritual includes personal risk. Community celebrations that tap into our hidden animal instinct with displays that overwhelm all the senses. This is a powerful way to build a deep sense of tribalism and community, to draw people together into a supportive whole.

Tomorrow many of us will enjoy the July 4th celebrations. Sitting comfortably in our folding chairs with portable BBQs and coolers; behind ropes and guard rails designating a safe area to stand...emergency response vehicles in attendance. We'll enjoy our safe, convenient family activity then curse the traffic on the way home, inside steel boxes with triple air bags. Later on we'll feel slightly unsettled by the neighbor kids setting off bottle rockets around the block. Somewhere else in the world, they'll light a bonfire the size of your house and sing songs while they watch the young people trying to see how far they can walk into the flames. They'll feel the heat, see the light up close, sense danger and ultimately give up a piece of themselves to the crowd and the untamed thing that lies below sensibility.

I'll take the bonfire please.

Climate change-The hot-topic for a new age of ineffectuals...something for the insects to rally-around and discuss which produces nay but fodder for the same passive-aggressive types who are being seduced by their desire to trade practical action (whatever that could be) for polemic intercourse with themselves and others like them on the internet....

....people who are passionate to a fault and use forums like this to espouse their anger and frustration with tomes of keystrokes AT and not WITH others they deem unworthy, those ignorant and simpering few with opinions or observations dissimilar to theirs (and lower than 130 I.Q.'s....*cough), who know they are helpless to act to stop the high-speed train of planet-fucking (wage-slave-required and dutifully induced through the programming by adepts of semantic mind-fucking).This delusional empowerment, with all the invisible superpowers of new 'information' gives them the license and ability to do absolutely nothing to correct or marginally disrupt the pace of the so-labeled change while becomming better dicks in doing-so.

This fan-driven subject of climate change they use not only to deride those with any dissenting opinion and doubt regarding the mechanics and unfolding of what our big, blue marble is handing the creatures onnit, but also and most evidently obvious, to bolster their own superiority and self-satisfaction in their ability to process the distraction of disinformation/information/datum-ad-nauseum, and then condense it into how clever they can be in being complete assholes without breaking rules of accepted decorum so they can hear themselves bark, howl, and foment.

Smug, helpless, and irritatingly predictable in their helplessness to do anything more effectual than to add more used motor oil to the bonfire of their own vanity.

I would ask these irritating bugs what ARE you prepared to do to alter the course of the 'changes' in the 'terminal climate' described above? Recycle and drive a hybrid? Sacrifice anything but another trip to a polling-station? Oh I know, sit at your computer keyboard and grow more incensed while going-on with your business of spouting and shouting from a mountain of trash that you add-to daily by converting oxygen to more life-giving C02 and buying shit you don't need with paper you are forced to trade for 'bads and disservices??'

Thought so.

Fuck global warming in it's ass and let the planet shake and quiver with change as humans and/or their own slave-like actions continue to feed the earth-furnace. The bigger fish to fry and serve head-on have you by the short and curlies and we're all bio-fuel for future generations

And, with foresight and expecting more of the same lame bullshit from the cheapest of seats upon my return, a much lamer attempt at an apology for what anyone would construe as as a personal attack upon my character at the most egregious of levels.

Pathetic. I post a comment on my personal profile of my hiatus and you in your nothing-else-better-to-do predictable manner, return to your own vomit in an attempt to pick a fight, pour gasoline on a bonfire, or how ever many more analogous quips I could belch forth to describe your fundamental character flaw.

You simply hate that which you do not understand chicco, is the bottom-line of this whole dance.

Who is impotent? The only damage to be seen from your completely off-base analysis of the comment in question, is that you have serious problems relating to anything resembling a real community.

I'd like to say go fuck yourself but that would be quite crude and I might be accused of breaking some bullshit rule. So I won't.

S'gonna be cool to live long enough to have been one of the last generations to have experienced the thrill and abandon of gasoline horsepower, legal bonfires, gunpowder projectiles.....farting without being ticketed by the local constabulary...Har.

Fatboy Slim's third UK No.1 single 'Praise You' and The Chemical Brothers' 2nd No.1 album, 'Surrender' hit that year.

The last flight of the SR-71

Oh, and this was the year the giant redneck bonfire fell down in College Station at Texas A&M.

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