>> ^dag:

I'm with you there. Have you looked into Alcor? not the most sterling reputation after the "Ted Williams' head" incident - but not a lot of other choices out there. I know there is at least one Sifter who is an Alcor future patient.
>> ^Sarzy:
I've been meaning to watch that film for a while now. I've heard good things.
But speaking of death stuff, I want to be frozen when die. Most of the time when I tell people that, they assume I'm joking, but I'm dead serious. Even if there's only a 0.000001 percent chance that they'll actually be able to successfully revive me at some point in the distant future and give me a robot body or whatever... well, then, why not? I don't believe that there's any life after death, so the idea that there's even a vague chance of me being revived makes the grim finality of death slightly less terrifying.



I've looked into Alcor, and the other companies doing this (like you said, there aren't too many of them), and I can't say I was particularly impressed with any of them. I'll probably wait until I'm closer to my 40s to start seriously looking into it. I'm hoping by then the whole industry will be a bit bigger (there's only something like 200 people in the entire world who are cryogenically frozen right now) and that the best company to go with will be more clear.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I'm with you there. Have you looked into Alcor? not the most sterling reputation after the "Ted Williams' head" incident - but not a lot of other choices out there. I know there is at least one Sifter who is an Alcor future patient.

>> ^Sarzy:

I've been meaning to watch that film for a while now. I've heard good things.
But speaking of death stuff, I want to be frozen when die. Most of the time when I tell people that, they assume I'm joking, but I'm dead serious. Even if there's only a 0.000001 percent chance that they'll actually be able to successfully revive me at some point in the distant future and give me a robot body or whatever... well, then, why not? I don't believe that there's any life after death, so the idea that there's even a vague chance of me being revived makes the grim finality of death slightly less terrifying.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Ima gonna let me finish, since I only did 14 back then.

15. I have an extremely boring day job that would put you to sleep if I explained it.
16. I am secretly plotting a return to the home of my birth - the USA.
17. Would like to write an SF novel, but fear I lack the discipline and talent
18. Would like to lose my American accent over here in Australia because I get tired of the first question with any stranger always being "where you from?"
19. I enjoy the show Glee - much to the dismay of most of my friends
20. No TV in our house for over 10 years
21. Started VideoSift after a 6 month, all-bank-accounts drained around the world trip with my wife and two kids
22. I once ran over a dog when delivering pizzas in high school, at night on snowy roads. It affected my driving for life
23. I can blow perfectly formed sprays of spit bubbles that float up into the air and last for up to a minute.
24. I spent a year in Salamanca, Spain as part of a university language program
25. I shat in an empty stairwell once due to explosive diarrhea that I could not contain.

Last one too much?>> ^dag:

1. I lived on the last federally granted homestead in the US in rural Alaska without running water or electricity for 5 years as a kid.
2. Had a ten speed when everyone else had a BMX, and thus never learned to tail slap.
3. Was an accomplice to deathcow stealing a LadyBug and Cosmic Adventure Colecovision cartridges from Art's Video Mart in 1984.
4. Bought my first 300 bps modem in 1985 for the Apple IIe.
5. Wore a spangly sequined vest in my high school's swing choir - and sang bass.
6. Attended Chaminade University of Honolulu for 2 years.
7. Attended Universidad de Salamanca in Spain for 1 year.
9. Worked in Osaka Japan for 3 years - probably for the Yakuza.
10. Married by a catholic priest to my Aussie wife in Japan.
11. Have acted in several community theater productions
12. Would like to have my head frozen at Alcor.
13. Can do good Sterling Holloway and Neil Diamond impressions
14. Founded best online community ever.

hey, that article is almost completely based on the above mentioned book, which only proves that "news" is still an entertainment industry...the book reads so far like a badly written soap opera. Also, take a look at this, please:
http://www.alcor.org/press/response.html
looks like any profits he made from my buying his book are going toward his legal fees, lol

>> ^dag:

This left me really disappointed with Alcor-
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/02/2009-10-02_book_reveals_chilling_details_of_how_cryonic_lab_thumped_remains_of_baseball_imm.
html
but I'm still hopeful that cryonics will eventually work.

Thanks dag, now here's what I'm gonna do:

(trying to submit amazon link to the book by the whistleblower Larry Johnson but can't submit so I'll try separately)

then I'm clicking that link, buying the Kindle version of the book and you'll probably make 2 whole cents! ha.

When I finish reading the book I'll have more to say...I've stayed woefully uninformed about pretty much anything for the last year and I missed that one...there may be a major shift ahead for us (I may actually have to get personally involved in a cause for once), let you know.

What is interesting is that since we have been members, we receive Alcor's monthly publication which always includes very detailed reports of any suspensions performed (we're talking from the first call in that they might be needed down to how relatives appeared and behaved at the time, not to mention details of times vs. temps)...makes me think that either Larry Johnson's whistleblowing worked and there was a major reform happen, or there are blantant fabrications being flaunted. I'm now going to follow through on my plan to drop by unannounced for a tour (which they encourage)...they are a short distance from here. Will give interested parties details on that as soon as it happens. Now, the book...

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

This left me really disappointed with Alcor-
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/10/02/2009-10-02_book_reveals_chilling_details_of_how_cryonic_lab_thumped_remains_of_baseball_imm.html

but I'm still hopeful that cryonics will eventually work.

>> ^burdturgler:

Well, I'm glad at least you are watching the video. It's very old. A lot has changed. It's crazy to me that when we are confronted with the scientific reality that organs, tissue and even entire living creatures have been and continue to be brought back from a state of cryogenic preservation, that one would think reviving a human brain with identity critical brain mass intact is some sort of scam. When you see them say "Anita is doing great" it is because they view Anita as a patient awaiting resuscitation, not as a corpse.


Again, don't get me wrong. If you asked me if I would take this service for free over being buried or cremated, sure. It is the expense v the actual science that I object to. It is a waste of money plain and simple.

The whole "Anita is doing great" is symptomatic of the delusional state under which the people who run this place are operating. Are they preserving organic matter that may be able to be cloned using some science-fictiony method in the far far far future? Sure. Are they actually "preserving humans so that they can be reanimated" no. I just keep going back to the hamburger analogy. Anita has been butchered. The people involved in these non-medical procedures are not doctors for the most part and there are absolutely no studies to show that these methods work.

I realize that Alcor (and I assume their competitor) bathe themselves in scientific language and allusions, but the fact remains that the procedures they are doing are not based in the scientific method. They clearly state that they are counting on nanotechnology (as well as other advances) that doesn't exist to repair damage that is pretty much irreversible to our present understanding. This is tantamount to me saying that with all certainty there will be warp-speed or transporters in the future.

Yes, I realize that many things in science were once science fiction, but there are both practical and scientific limits to consider. The science I will leave to the scientist, the practical stuff, I feel is enough to realize that this isn't worth what they are charging. There is no way that Alcor will exist long enough for science to catch up with what would be necessary to "revive" the material they are storing. 35 years is a flash in the pan when it comes to the type of advances that would be necessary to do anything useful with the meat in their freezers.

Final thought on this:

That bald guy who is a detractor they keep showing? He's a doctor of forensic medicine. He understands decomposition and he's calling it bunk... Who you going to believe? The guy who knows how things die and decompose, or the volunteer makeup artist who doubles as the "ALCOR Head of the Stabilization team" in her spare time.

Alcor is a non-profit organization.
They've been around over 35 years.
All of their financial information is publicly available.

I have very mixed feelings about it.

First of all, I do not intend to criticize the OP(s) for being "members" of alcor.

It is a VERY cool idea and I would do it in a HEARTBEAT if I was a bit more confident in their science.

The way I understand it is that yes, there are organisms that can survive being frozen and then reanimated in either simple or complex ways. That said, I do not believe that human beings are built to make this probable.

The questions are ones of time, money, and science. Science right now CANNOT do this. The methods by which Alcor (and the other place) are "preserving" bodies has not been proven to encourage a non-existent procedure of reanimation.

This technology will not be available for a LONG time, if ever. I don't believe it is impossible, but I believe it is the sort of thing which would come FAR in advance of where our medical science is now. I believe that the science involved would have to not only have to unfreeze but reverse certain aspects of decomposition that happen WAY too fast for this to be possible. Unless you are being frozen almost instantly while still alive, which I do not believe is legal since it would be tantamount to euthanasia. So in my mind, we are talking about advanced techniques of cell manipulation and reconstruction which don't remotely exist. This brings me to

Will Alcor still exist in 300-1000 years? What provisions are being made for this?

I hate to say it, but I think the partial answer lies in Alcor's profits. I doubt they would ever release their financial statements, but you can probably tell a LOT by what their financial situation is.

If Alcor is actually legit, and not just to separate the future-minded person with expendable income from their money, they won't exist for long. The money involved in keeping these bodies in suspended animation for hundreds of years will not allow them to stay in business forever and eventually the plug will be pulled on these tubes and that will be that.

That's the best case scenario.

The worse case scenario is that this is a scam. They probably know damned well that they are banking on solutions that don't (and probably won't) exist in their own lifetimes. Therefore they charge money to people who like the idea, enjoy their Ferraris and dump the bodies in about 50 years when there are no living relatives so the inheritors of Alcor can continue the business. Another clue: their staff is volunteer based with little to no medical background... yeah.

I know I'm being a bit pessimistic, but it is very much akin to UFOs... there are lots of people that believe in UFOs and there are lots of people who make product for those who believe in UFOs. Some of them also believe in UFOs, but I suspect a vast majority see a market that is booming and money to be made. Whenever someone is trying to sell you something, you know that they know it is bullshit.

It is like all the 2012 hysteria. Why am I seeing commercials for SUVs and McDonald's tie-ins for a movie about the end of the world? Why do we have major corporations sponsoring shows on the Discovery channel "analyzing" the Mayan predictions about the last few years we have left? Money... it's always about selling me something.

But seriously, I really don't mean to be a debbie downer about this, but it is just a flash in the pan. I just really hope that you aren't spending money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Finally, I REALLY question the idea of preserving just the head. All I can think of is this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oL7XP0ROvk

Skip to 2:12

1. I cooked dinner for Motley Crue.

2. I had my first real kiss while on a boat in a lake in Canada. She couldn't speak English. I couldn't speak French.

3. Some of my ancestors were pirates in Ireland.

4. I've wrecked 3 cars.

5. I fractured my neck (see #4).

6. I'm planning to be frozen by Alcor when I die.

7. I'm a formerly recovered sift addict who has fallen off the wagon.

8. I was a level 80 warlock in EQ2

9. I like cigars.

10. I grew several pounds of fantastic weed in a small closet.

11. I have an electric guitar that I've never played.

12. My first words were "wow" and "no".

13. I've seen a UFO.

14. I'm part Blackfoot Indian.

15. My first computer was a C-64 w/ a cassette tape drive.

16. I love the ocean. The salt air .. sound of the sea gulls ..

17. I sing like shit but do it loudly anyway.

18. I was on a first name basis at the emergency room when I was a kid.

19. The beauty of the sky at night and the expanse of space leaves me struck with awe every time I look up.

20. I'm terrified of bees and I think they know it.

21. If I could only ever have one video game, it would be Morrowind.

22. The only movie I've ever been to with my father was Star Wars. It's also the only time I remember an audience standing up and cheering at the end.

23. I sleep with the TV on so I don't have to hear myself think.

24. I procrastinate finishing things.

25.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

1. I lived on the last federally granted homestead in the US in rural Alaska without running water or electricity for 5 years as a kid.
2. Had a ten speed when everyone else had a BMX, and thus never learned to tail slap.
3. Was an accomplice to deathcow stealing a LadyBug and Cosmic Adventure Colecovision cartridges from Art's Video Mart in 1984.
4. Bought my first 300 bps modem in 1985 for the Apple IIe.
5. Wore a spangly sequined vest in my high school's swing choir - and sang bass.
6. Attended Chaminade University of Honolulu for 2 years.
7. Attended Universidad de Salamanca in Spain for 1 year.
9. Worked in Osaka Japan for 3 years - probably for the Yakuza.
10. Married by a catholic priest to my Aussie wife in Japan.
11. Have acted in several community theater productions
12. Would like to have my head frozen at Alcor.
13. Can do good Sterling Holloway and Neil Diamond impressions
14. Founded best online community ever.

Ref: http://www.videosift.com/video/Cryonics-Discussion-Welcome
so hey, you just signed up to post a comment on my cryonics sift?
Dude, I am A-2279, just to give 'ya a bit 'o credibility there...are you listed in Alcor's member directory? I would love to talk w/ you!
I just wanted to say that now that you are a member, you might want to get to know the people here on the sift, read their thoughts, interact w/ them...you will find they are an amazing group of people. I couldn't deliberately move to a town that had a finer community, honestly. They rock. Give 'em some of your time ~ contribute some vids that you like, we might like them too! Friends are good.

Hello Friend's !
We believe that intelligence, memories & personality are determined primarily by the structure & chemistry of the human brain.Our aim is to preserve the brain so faithfully that its unique identity will also be preserved,so that future science may be able to revive the individual.We realize that this is highly speculative, but we feel that human life is sufficiently precious to justify our attempt,even thought the outcome is unknown.
Discover how leading-edge science at the Alcor Life Extension Foundation is getting closer to making the dream of a vastly extended lifespan come true and how our notion of "death" is shifting. This video included interviews with world-renowned scientists including Dr.Aubrey de Grey, Department of Genetics at the University of Cambridge, explaining how life can be cryopreserved on the verge of death and then revitalized, giving us a second chance at a long and productive life, and Dr. Ralph Merkle, Distinguished Professor of Computing at Georgia Tech, exploring how molecular-sized machines will be able to repair damage to your body from aging or the devastating effects of cancer and other illnesses, including frostbite.

If you want to see my videos ... you are welcome.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=FX28Cg-z9kw

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=SFSF2yXVYgg

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jesBO9eKtvg

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=t1UnDDrpyho

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=z4NqWD-bfEE

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=VCiloFQ0LXI

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=KaIkvqaSYHU

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=-yF63ioVunY

If you want the free DVD
http://www.alcor.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/alcor/public/InfoRequest.cgi

Have a good day !

Steph from Quebec/CANADA
----------------------------------------
Alcor Member & very happy with my choice

http://www.cryonet.org/

http://www.alcor.org/

http://www.cryonics.org/

and a video from another member of these arenas which I posted earlier and don't really want to see die on the sift:

http://www.videosift.com/video/I-Am-God-Becoming-Me