Tags for this video have been changed from 'Christopher Hitchens, marxist, imperialism, colonialism, islam, al queda' to 'Christopher Hitchens, marxist, imperialism, colonialism, islam, al qaeda' - edited by RhesusMonk

Bush wasn't honest, he was just a pawn of Cheney and Rumsfeld the first three years of the administration.
I like you Paul. I agree with you on a lot of things. However, you're now marrying the war in Iraq with the war in Afghanistan. That mindset helped to initiate Iraqi war. We've killed a lot of Al Queda in Afghanistan and Pakistan since Obama has been in charge. That's a marked improvement from buying them off to fight our shadow villains.

I didn't realize there were such avid Hitchens fanboys on the sift, crimeny!

Hitchens has a pretty good grasp of the geo-political mistakes of the West since World War 2, but he falls short on everything prior to that.

When it comes to Islamic extremism, I've come to believe that the people pulling the strings, the terrorist leaders, mullahs, rulers, etc., care about nothing but staying in power. I'd be surprised if they genuinely believed the religion they use to stay in power. Fundamental Islam is merely the yolk they use to keep their people down, or make others do their bidding. It's only differs from Christianity in the west, in that the Christians don't openly tell their followers to kill people, they just imply it. Saying that Islam is the problem is taking the easy way out, Islam is the tool, the problem is the people using it as a weapon.

Bad people will always use what ever means they can to take and maintain power over others. Be it religion, money, or whatever. The trick to defeating them is to stop them before they can seize power, and if that can't be done, then to marginalize their effectiveness so that their followers/oppressed lose faith/fear and wrest them from power. The only people who can effectively destroy something like Al Queda, the House of Saud, or Iran's tyrannical government, are the people under their boot. The West should stop fighting the oppressors and start strengthening the oppressed.

How long until they come out saying that the videos of Cheney linking Iraq to Al Queda are fake?

I don't see how people can criticize waterboarding. Without it, we never would have known that Iraq had WMDs and was training Al Queda members.

dude his homeschooled.... quite articulate, but kind of sheltered. I heard him on Thom Hartmann's radio show, and he really has no idea what is going on and made some shit up about al-Queda training camps operating in northern Georgia....

I think he'll get older and have some experiences that will blow his mind, and he'll swing left. The universe will moderate him (I hope)

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I don't care so much about the abortion side of this. I DO care that little Barry has now opened the spigot for his liberal-whacko lobbyist groups to funnel billions of US taxpayer dollars to foreign organizations during a time when every penny of tax money should be staying home to solve our own issues.
But there - what else can we expect. Obama is an idiot. There isn't a single thing he's doing that doesn't run absolutely 100% counter to common sense. Economic turmoil? Hey - nationalize the banks and spend money on overseas abortions. Big 3 car companies teetering on the edge or ruin? Hey - let's slap them with a bunch of new fuel standards they can't possibly meet and force them to retool all thier factories! National economy on the brink? Hey - let's cap and trade coal and raise EVERYBODY'S fuel bills! And if the economy collapses? Hey - it was Bush's fault! Ex-Guantanamo terrorists showing up in Al-Queda videos? Hey - let's close Guantanamo and 'not say' what we're going to do with them.
It has only been 1 week and Obama has done just about everything wrong it was possible to do wrong. Combine him with the certifiably insane Nancy Pelosi and the doormat Harry Ried and America is royally screwed.

I'll reply in order;
1. i dunno about your banking system, someone else take care of this one
2. So because america is suffering at the moment (as is everywhere else), obama should allow them to pollute and produce polluting machinery without regard for standards? That'll do wonders for the earth, how will your economic recession seem when we ruin the planet for the human race? You'll be cursing obama on your deathbed for not sorting out pollution when he had a chance. That's not even considering how other countries will say "typical america, not conforming, not caring about the rest of the world (and itself)"
3. Cap and trade coal? Dunno what you mean here, i'm english so i need better setups. Although capping fuel-mining will not seem like a stupid idea in 20 years time when it's potentially one of the most rare and prized commodities on the planet.
4. Everybody's fault except the people who ultimately have to suffer
5. Guantanamo was an illegal prison, might as well call yourself terrorists if you're gonna hold innocent people against their will for years of their precious lives.


1. Asking others on LiberalSift to answer a question, eh? Well said.

2. Our policies should be governed by what other countries think. Well said.

3. You're English? I'm sorry.

4. You're right, terrorists should never be made to feel any pain of any kind. Well said.

5. I agree, we should become a police state like your country, and let only the criminals and terrorists have guns. Oh wait, with Obama, we're already on our way there. Well said.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I don't care so much about the abortion side of this. I DO care that little Barry has now opened the spigot for his liberal-whacko lobbyist groups to funnel billions of US taxpayer dollars to foreign organizations during a time when every penny of tax money should be staying home to solve our own issues.
But there - what else can we expect. Obama is an idiot. There isn't a single thing he's doing that doesn't run absolutely 100% counter to common sense. Economic turmoil? Hey - nationalize the banks and spend money on overseas abortions. Big 3 car companies teetering on the edge or ruin? Hey - let's slap them with a bunch of new fuel standards they can't possibly meet and force them to retool all thier factories! National economy on the brink? Hey - let's cap and trade coal and raise EVERYBODY'S fuel bills! And if the economy collapses? Hey - it was Bush's fault! Ex-Guantanamo terrorists showing up in Al-Queda videos? Hey - let's close Guantanamo and 'not say' what we're going to do with them.
It has only been 1 week and Obama has done just about everything wrong it was possible to do wrong. Combine him with the certifiably insane Nancy Pelosi and the doormat Harry Ried and America is royally screwed.


I'll reply in order;
1. i dunno about your banking system, someone else take care of this one

2. So because america is suffering at the moment (as is everywhere else), obama should allow them to pollute and produce polluting machinery without regard for standards? That'll do wonders for the earth, how will your economic recession seem when we ruin the planet for the human race? You'll be cursing obama on your deathbed for not sorting out pollution when he had a chance. That's not even considering how other countries will say "typical america, not conforming, not caring about the rest of the world (and itself)"

3. Cap and trade coal? Dunno what you mean here, i'm english so i need better setups. Although capping fuel-mining will not seem like a stupid idea in 20 years time when it's potentially one of the most rare and prized commodities on the planet.

4. Everybody's fault except the people who ultimately have to suffer

5. Guantanamo was an illegal prison, might as well call yourself terrorists if you're gonna hold innocent people against their will for years of their precious lives.

I don't care so much about the abortion side of this. I DO care that little Barry has now opened the spigot for his liberal-whacko lobbyist groups to funnel billions of US taxpayer dollars to foreign organizations during a time when every penny of tax money should be staying home to solve our own issues.

But there - what else can we expect. Obama is an idiot. There isn't a single thing he's doing that doesn't run absolutely 100% counter to common sense. Economic turmoil? Hey - nationalize the banks and spend money on overseas abortions. Big 3 car companies teetering on the edge or ruin? Hey - let's slap them with a bunch of new fuel standards they can't possibly meet and force them to retool all thier factories! National economy on the brink? Hey - let's cap and trade coal and raise EVERYBODY'S fuel bills! And if the economy collapses? Hey - it was Bush's fault! Ex-Guantanamo terrorists showing up in Al-Queda videos? Hey - let's close Guantanamo and 'not say' what we're going to do with them.

It has only been 1 week and Obama has done just about everything wrong it was possible to do wrong. Combine him with the certifiably insane Nancy Pelosi and the doormat Harry Ried and America is royally screwed.

let him go so he can join up with his buds in al queda

If you play this backwards, you get to see what happens if you don't pay your bill...

...or what happens if al Queda ever gets that anti-grav bomb thingy to work.

Irishman, I don't think Ron Paul's blimp was designed for transcontinental flight.

The point is that Obama has said a great many things to a great many people, some of which are good things, others not so much. He has also said things that are evasive, deceptive and contradictory. (So has Ron Paul and just about every politician who has ever lived btw) Am I happy about this? No. Do I have some worries? Yes. Have I given up hope already? Fuck no.

To get elected to office, you have to jump through a great many hoops, and keep the power mongers and money men from tearing you to shreds and leaving you in the dust bin of history with Ralph Nader and Ron Paul.

Will he cave to power? Will he wage war against them? I don't know, and neither do you. Most likely, he'll do something between these two extremes.

Perhaps, when Obama speaks about fighting terrorism, he is referring to 'actual' terrorism (remember Al Queda), as opposed to Iraq. He has said a great deal about communication, diplomacy and negotiation, which sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Perhaps he will be another raging neo-con, but it's all speculation at this point.

Have some patience, I'm sure there is a world of fresh new conspiracies for you to indulge in right around the corner. If Obama turns out to be George Bush #3 (#4 if you count Reagan), then I'll hit the streets and protest with you*. Cut and paste this paragraph if you like. Until then, it's just speculative, fringe hysteria.


*Said protest must take place within 100 miles of my residence in beautiful, sunny, southern California unless you want to pay airfare and travel expenses elsewhere.

>> ^rougy:

When western powers start leaving the Middle East alone, the Middle East will have less reason to "terrorize" the West.
Almost all of the so-called terrorists in Iraq aren't out to destroy America, they are out to remove the American occupation from their homeland.
We must try to imagine our roles reversed. Imagine your city or town controlled by Iraqi soldiers who suspected you of murder and neither understood, nor really cared to understand, your language or culture.


absolutely.
but terrorism/jihad has been a tool long before we invaded iraq. infact iraqis were not really players in the terror game until we invaded. so yes, in the case of the insurgents in iraq, its certainly a "get the fuck out of our country you american pig". but outside of that and long before that its been a tool to exploit the poor to do the bidding of the fanatical. and its worldwide. like an al queda cell attacked a small fishing village in the phillipines (that my friends wife and baby live in) and decapitated 4 people about 2 months ago. ... and speaking of propaganda machines.. why dont we hear about this in the us?

but you are right, we need to get of their country, rethink our position on israel, denounce the war on terror as an excuse for abuse after extensive abuse, and focus our efforts towards a war on poverty... or maybe not a war... maybe a... "poverty conflict" or... "military social agenda"? .. ah fuck it.. wed just screw it up anyway.

An expcerpt from a real conversation overheard in the future:

Mccain: Bomb Iran.
General: Are you sure you mean Iran? just checking before I..
M: Wait no, I mean Al Queda. Bomb Al Queda.
G: Well, I would, but Al Queda's not a country.
M: Oh. Well in that case, bomb whatever country Putin is president of, I know he's in Al Queda
G: ummmm. well I'll give it a shot, Russia? I should bomb Russia?
M: No, Germany. Specifically Pakistan, Germany. Bomb them.
G: I'll get right on that. Sir. You just go back to eating your pudding.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Al Queda, Mormons, Missionaries, Australia' to 'Al Queda, Mormons, Missionaries, Australia, chasers war' - edited by kulpims