>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Not to mention CATO. It doesn't get much more corporatist than CATO, which is funded by corporatist demi-Gods Scaife, Koch, Ford and Coors.


No, I think corporations like Halliburton and KBR are as corporate as it gets, and they're nestled up so comfortably around the government's fist. Coors and Cato didn't take us into Iraq. Besides, Cato is non-profit, and the money they make from corporations comes as charitable donations they have to hustle to raise. Is it ideal? No. But I don't see them making the same money from mom and pop. Even the ACLU takes contributions from corporations, such as the tobacco industry.

All this "democratically elected" blah blah is hollow rhetoric when the people elected are so powerful the lobbyist want to use them to get us into war with no bid contracts or change corporate law to tip the playing field in their favor. Every presidential candidate takes money from corporate lobbyists and big business. Even your beloved Obama. You want to fight corporations, you start with the entity that created them: government.

I say if you support big government then you're a corporatist.

Screw you, ACLU pussies. I bet you thought Kevin should have been sued by the thieves in the Home Alone movies too.

OMG ron paul is such a liberal pinko hollywood ACLU hugger.


BTW, in news today, open source software people get added to a piracy watch list. I think they might be terrorists too. Kill them all and install windows in their graves.

The irony of this is the Miranda laws were created initially to protect people who were non-english speaking and were potentially unaware of their rights while being tried in court.

Ernesto Miranda could barely speak english and was coerced by police to give a confession. The police never made it clear that he could have an attorney present during the interrogation. Later the charges levied against him were overturned because, the ACLU argued that his sixth amendment (below) rights were violated.

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

I hate to sound like a talking head for the left but the fact of the matter is Rachel is right, and these republicans (especially the LOATHSOME senator Bachman) are hypocrites.

Let's just think about this one...

Exibit A: (Tea Bagger Philosophy)

Person A accuses Person B, of not being Person C. Person B, has to show ID, that they are indeed, Person C.

Exibit B: (US Legal code)

Person A accuses Person B, of murder. Person A, would have to come up with the burdern of proof, to prove (whether by judge or jury), that Person B, was guilty of murder.

If we apply 'Tea Bagger' philosophy, one would have to prove their innocence beyond a shadow of doubt, regardless of what their accusers actually said, or the depth of their accusation. Unfortunately to Tea Baggers, that Exibit A is unconstitutional. Person B, would NOT, have to prove their innonounce, because they are assumed to be Person C. Person A, would have to explain to the legal/enforcement offical(s), that Person B, isn't who they say they are. This would have to include real, concrete evidence, like a photo of the real person in question.

While, yes, showing an ID would be quicker, it would also be unconstitutional. So, if the Tea Baggers are so concern with wasteful spending, why, spend heaps of money, people's time, to get law passed that the ACLU will easily destroy in court?

well the more things change the more they stay the same. They want power over us it's information control so I'd say just don't go to musuems they make money from the exhibits also if you are inclined then do a protest but make certain you have a good lawyer yet eventually if we don't go then they'll get rid of the stupid rules maybe or you can do a petition. It violates the fair use act in the copy right code. Yet the people who want the money and are preventing free expression have their hooks into government. Lobbiests run things our voice doesn't matter to them at all they own things but that's about to change. It always gets worse before it gets better. Contact the democratic party and the libertarian as well as the ACLU and write your legislators in your area and tell them what you think speak out without hurting anyone. Also vote or you lose the right to complain about your government

>> ^aceofkidneys:
>> ^rougy:
Sadist.

you can't be serious..


Not only am I serious, I am at this moment on the phone with the ACLU.

Obviously missed the point. You may not post to troll, but your beliefs, however sincerely held, are certainly far from mainstream.

Well let's see, *I* stand for freedom of speech, not political correctness, private ownership of firearms and limited, accountable government. Oh, and the free market and the SACRED right to own private property which is the cornerstone of American civilization. While not a Christian myself, I'm not wise anough to simply disregard and disestablish the Judeo-Christian foundation of these United States, and neither is fking Dawkins and the other guy. If anyone's pretending to be persecuted of "forced to convert" it's the ACLU by the shadow of a cross.

It's a damned shame that liberty and believing government exists to serve the will of the people instead of the other way around is no longer "mainstream". But the perpetually-fooled elected a marxist community organizer to the White House, that's a fact (how many left-wing radicals is Obama going to promote before you may admit he believes as they do)?

By now you must know the liberal cry-wolf of "racism" is meaningless. I demand the same excellence of so-called minorities as anyone else, and when they make serious errors in judgement, they should be called on it, NOT have their stupidity justified and rewarded by blaming racism and/or poverty.

Left-wing America is not only on the path to tyranny but marching happily. Don't you at least deserve a few dozen warnings? Today the state-run media does Obama's bidding voluntarily. Soon there will be a day they'll be ordered what to say. I'm not waiting for that, I KNOW the bacon is burning.

Sift Civil Liberties Union... like the ACLU. I was just being silly, to be honest. It was something schmawy termed at one point.

>> ^quantumushroom:
1) USA is not a democracy.


Correct. It is a constitutional republic.


2) Torture is illegal against American citizens and uniform-wearing soldiers of other nations' armed forces.


Wrong. The Bill of Rights does not differentiate between citizens and non-citizens. It only speaks of 'persons'. It embodies certain essential rights common to all men (and women) regardless of race, creed, gender, sexual orientation, or nationality. True, it only pertains to actions taken within US borders, and against US citizens outside of the US. However, as signatories to the UN Convention against Torture, we have agreed that agents of the US shall not torture.


3) Terrorists fit neither description of #2, therefore legal protections do not apply no matter how badly the ACLU wants them to. The same legal charade was attempted by leftists during WW2, scrambling to give German saboteurs the protection of the American legal process. It failed and the Germs were rightly executed (people had way more common sense + balls back then).



Funny story about them saboteurs--you must be talking about Operation Pastoreus, which gives us the rich legacy of secret military tribunals. The thing is that we would have known NOTHING about the plan, if not for the fact that its leader, intent on betraying the Nazis from the start, turned himself in to the FBI and told them everything they needed to know (he actually had to travel from NYC to Washington, DC to do this, as the FBI Office in NYC hung up on him, thinking him a crank). For this essential service, the leader who had turned on his own people and spared countless American lives was thrown in a cell with the other seven, and sentenced to die. Hoover, director of the FBI, felt that the stroke of luck that had benefitted them in this case didn't play as well in the media as a tireless army of FBI agents, knocking down doors. The leader had been tried separately, and the military judges had been informed about his vital role in breaking the case, and STILL he was sentenced to die. It was only after the details of the case were released that his sentence was commuted. Instead of being treated as a hero, he and another German 'spy' who had turned on their Nazi masters were deported back to Germany, where they were treated as traitors.

So, you know, try another one.


4) While rich in history, most of the rest of the world is quite lame...unstable, squalid, rife with tribal hatreds going back centuries. Other governments' depths of corruption make the USA's look like a school play about tooth decay. Europe is graying and its traditions and culture dying. It would be better off mummified than Muslimfied.


"To save the village, we had to destroy the village." How well did that mentality work in Vietnam?


5) Obama is a laughingstock to America's sworn enemies and is played like a harp by all manner of sociopathic dictators around the globe. He's made America seem as weak as a legless kitten.


Yawn.



6) The USA will never get proper credit or respect for the good it does in the world (at least, not from American liberals). Part of being The Big Dog is being challenged. When China eventually takes over as Big Dog, the rest of the world will long for the good old days.


You know, this is what's so funny about 'free market' ideologues. Their belief that the free market will right all wrongs seems to falter when the market starts favoring an outcome that's much less favorable to them, whether it be the speaking of Spanish, or the growth of non-Christian faiths, or hegemony under a different overlord. Once that happens, the free market must be ignored, and nations toppled.


7) Peanut-head Eric Holder already tried to raise a legal stink about torture and was rebuked. Navy SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training and only 3 of the terrorists were waterboarded, for the purpose of gaining intel, not torture for torture's sake.


Democracies AND constitutional republics do not believe that torture is permissible, regardless of outcome. The ends do NOT justify the means.



Since torture "doesn't work" the logical alternative is to kill all terrorists/insurgents on the battlefield without mercy. Yet this approach is also poo-pooed.


How is this logical? I know--I shouldn't feed the troll here, but I've got some time on my hands.


9) Liberal logic eats its own tail. Dependent on moral relativism to exist, it cannot by its own definition ever claim a lasting moral high ground.


Capitalism eats its own tail. It begets inequities that yield monopolies, and once we have monopolies, capitalism collapses. Communism eats its own tail. In fact, every ideological concept, when taken to its purest form, contains the seeds of its own destruction. The thing about liberalism is that, unlike conservativism, it is endlessly questioning its own relevance and truthfulness. You would, of course, see this as weakness, but like steel, tempering drives out impurities and leads to a stronger material.

1) USA is not a democracy.

2) Torture is illegal against American citizens and uniform-wearing soldiers of other nations' armed forces.

3) Terrorists fit neither description of #2, therefore legal protections do not apply no matter how badly the ACLU wants them to. The same legal charade was attempted by leftists during WW2, scrambling to give German saboteurs the protection of the American legal process. It failed and the Germs were rightly executed (people had way more common sense + balls back then).

4) While rich in history, most of the rest of the world is quite lame...unstable, squalid, rife with tribal hatreds going back centuries. Other governments' depths of corruption make the USA's look like a school play about tooth decay. Europe is graying and its traditions and culture dying. It would be better off mummified than Muslimfied.

5) Obama is a laughingstock to America's sworn enemies and is played like a harp by all manner of sociopathic dictators around the globe. He's made America seem as weak as a legless kitten.

6) The USA will never get proper credit or respect for the good it does in the world (at least, not from American liberals). Part of being The Big Dog is being challenged. When China eventually takes over as Big Dog, the rest of the world will long for the good old days.

7) Peanut-head Eric Holder already tried to raise a legal stink about torture and was rebuked. Navy SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training and only 3 of the terrorists were waterboarded, for the purpose of gaining intel, not torture for torture's sake.

Since torture "doesn't work" the logical alternative is to kill all terrorists/insurgents on the battlefield without mercy. Yet this approach is also poo-pooed.

9) Liberal logic eats its own tail. Dependent on moral relativism to exist, it cannot by its own definition ever claim a lasting moral high ground.

I'm curious -- if he had been interrogated long enough or even "taken to the station" as threatened, and that made him miss his flight, any chance he could have sued for any or all of either the price of the ticket, a justifiable figure of productivity lost by the detainment, and potential legal fees?

I hate frivolous lawsuits, but I'd write a donation check to the ACLU if they represented suing the TSA in some incident like this...

>> ^rasch187:
and thanks for supplying us with some proof of that btw


I don't care enough to google it to win some petty disagreement. If you care enough, go forth and google to your heart's content and you will find some statistics on the matter. Whether they're true or not; I don't know.

Also, I don't think giving to charities is only incentivized by government tax breaks. In fact, most of the money I give isn't even tax deductible. I think the ACLU is a decent watchdog group and I give monthly to them, and not one cent of that is tax deductible because they consider it a political organization even if it is not for profit.

i just downvoted my first qm comment.
(i think, i maybe proven wrong, but i dont REMEMBER voting another one down)

No, there have to be others. I'm pretty sure you hated me when you first started commenting.

taking care of eachother as a national ideal is not the same thing as "celebrating" being downtrodden. i suppose you celebrate the kind of greed which creates this human refuse. with compassion, we all grow stronger.

im confused as to your idea of morality.

Since you have firsthand experience in these matters, I have to wonder why you think "greed" is the cause of homelessness. What about mental illness, drug addiction, abusive homes, etc?

Treating homelessness is a logistical nightmare. Half of the money set aside for food stamps goes UNspent, and even if you could round up the homeless to feed them, the ACLU would sue any organization that "violated the rights" of the homeless by putting the mentally ill in an institution.

As in all things, there are no solutions, only trade-offs.



I was orig. addressing the other side of enoch's quote:

"A measure of a society can be made on how it treats its elderly, children and weakest members"

Years ago I read a similar sentiment painted on a wall in Berkeley, CA...

The area of Berkeley I visited had a university campus, with tuition costs of 50K per annum, surrounded by blocks of expensive businesses whose walkways were crowded with young, healthy, able-bodied bums; what they lacked in money they made up for in self-righteousness.

They demanded money because, hey, you were working weren't you? You could afford it!

When hobos were roaming the country in the 1930s, they always offered to work for food or other items. Now there's an entitlement mentality, part of which includes blaming society for self-inflicted wounds.

What about the government/society that celebrates victimhood, creates dependency and makes people weaker?

To answer my own question, last year Florida taxpayers spent 100 million in "free" medical care for illegal aliens, Texas taxpayers spent 250 million, and California? One Billion dollars.

Do you think that one billion spent on illegal invaders might have helped these homeless people instead?

-Disrespectful or otherwise rude people. - Me
-Ignorant or otherwise moronic people. - Me
-Most conspiracy theorists. (This means you, Rosie) - They're all after me
-Most activists. (This means you, Cindy) - Hell no I won't go
-Religion bashers. - Dirty hippy Jesus.
-America bashers. - Dirty hippy hippies
-Whiny victim types. - It's not my fault I'm an asshole
-Anti-science types. - but at least I didn't evolve from a monkey!
-Keith Obermann, Sean Hannity, Pat Condell, and Richard Dawkins. - all great men
-PETA, the RIAA, the ACLU, and CAIR. - Those must be some other language
-Those dang melt-sealed, bleed-you-to-death plastic packages everything seems to come in. - HEY! My dad invented those!

Jeez, according to this, Doc_M should LOVE LOVE LOVE ME!

congrats on the 100 and on finally diagnosing this rash.