Blimey, it's 2.33am and I'm laughing like a loon at this. And I should be working. Ah f**k it. More Chatroultte videos...

-This- is what Olbermann is best at...excoriating loons (or amoral opportunists, take your pick).

The real problem with Objectivism is that it's completely and utterly unrealistic...just like Communism. Likely this is due to the fact that Objectivism wasn't created as a philosophy on its own merits, it was created solely in an attempt to ensure that Communism would [not]* affect anyone else. Rand was profoundly twisted by her family's interactions with a Communist government, but that hardly excuses turning a blind eye to every possible good that government might accomplish.

If nothing else, plain history shows that private enterprise does -not- solve every problem...every single case of "the commons" is not going to be solved without some collective action (read that as government). Pollution...in the absence of regulations forcing the external costs to be paid by the producer, it's always cheaper to dump toxic wastes than to be clean. It's always cheaper for a for-profit insurance company to refuse to pay than it is to provide health care for the seriously ill. Private enterprise does well when people have many choices of fungible products...it fails utterly when they don't.

Rand was a loon, and those who swallow this koolaid are either willfully blind, or delusional.

* Edited to add the missing "not" in that statement the first time through.

Kinda reminds me of the old "Nelson Mandala freedom fighter or terrorist" chestnut.

Except replacing substituting white men for Japanese(works) and black Africans for whales(fail)...

The Japanese are skirting international law to harvest animals, which is bad. The Sea Shepherd, through antics like this and others, is actively endangering human lives. The endanger not only their own lives and anyone sent to rescue them, but those of the other ships around them that they choose to attack. That is much, much worse and the only way to cut it any different is to value human and other animal life equally. This shows in who does and does not support these loons.

Perhaps if he just said he disagreed with them...instead of making the claim they're communists. But that's probably too subtle for most wing-nuts to understand. Like the one a few days ago that implied that everyone who supported health care reform were thieves, but got offended when I called him a loon. Like Christians who band together to fight gay marriage, and when people object, cry that Christianity is being attacked.

Hypocrisy offends me. The "I got mine, fuck you" mindset offends me even more.

>> ^LostTurntable:
Bush did "inherit" 9/11 in as much as Clinton didn't do a great job fighting Osama Bin Laden on his watch, but Bush just flat out IGNORED him. There's more then enough blame to go around on that one.


Actually, Clinton wanted to go after Bin Laden more. There was just this little issue with an intern's stained dress that the GOP thought was more important at the time. Had the GOP-heavy congress given him the OK, he probably could have found Bin Laden before 9/11 would've ever happened. After all, the attack on the USS Cole did happen on his watch, so you'd think that the GOP would've put bringing him to justice for it up on their list of priorities. Sadly, pursuing terrorists is only a priority when it makes one of their own look good for doing it.

But Clinton knew something big was going to happen the second week of September 2001. He even made sure to let the Bush administration know everything his administration knew about it. Condi Rice had been photographed several times carrying around that report, but I could never find a pic of anyone actually reading it.

That report was leaked not long after 9/11 happened. The media largely ignored it, however. It spelled out a number of scenarios, as well as counter-strategies for dealing with issues as they came up when it came to diplomacy and the Middle East. Sadly, none of the warnings were heeded. The rest, as they say, is history.

So let us place blame where it should fall - on the Republican-led Congress that Clinton fought with for 6 years. They repealed Glass-Stegall. They put more effort into looking at sperm on a dress than intelligence reports. They put party before country, and we're STILL paying for it, over 10 years later.

So Fuck Newt Gingrich. Remember, he resigned as Speaker of the House (who is next in line after if the Prez and VP are unable to perform their duties) because he was a fucking hypocrite who, despite being an ugly, fat sack of shit, managed to find someone other than his wife who would let him fuck her. His intended successor was guilty of the same crime, so they had to get Dennis fucking Hastert, a retired high school wrestling coach, to play third-string House Speaker. (And someone who made a living of watching young men grapple and roll around isn't gay at all. Really.)

And Mary Matalin must have her head so far up her ass she can see an alternate reality. Let's get NASA on that shit.

>> ^NetRunner:



McLaughlin and Eleanor Clift have the most balanced views and the most insight. Buchanan has said some remarkably progressive things on there considering who he is, and some remarkably backwards things.

The tone of the show isn't personally confrontational--they get worked up about ideas but they don't personally attack each other or their credibility.

I'm 6:
Not even THEY know what they're voting on...

They're rushing it beyond reason for no reason. Something so large, so extremely risky, and so experimental ought not to be dived into with such reckless abandon. They spent FAR more time on "no child left behind" and even with that amount of time, it was still less than ideal to be generous. I vote dump the entire thing and start over with some actual bipartisan consideration. As with any bill this large, I say if you can only convince half of those whom we've elected to lead us that it is a good idea, the whole thing is a failure. In addition, last I checked, a large majority of US citizens don't want it to pass. The Dems are worried they'll lose their political capital if they can't pass it? Maybe, but if they DO pass it, they'll anger an enormous number of voters, more or less sealing their fate in 2010. Meanwhile, the media is only interested in the craziest loons on both sides. After all, they make good headlines and talking points. The people with their heads screwed on straight aren't getting their message out 'cause no one wants to feel like their watching CSPAN.

>> ^thinker247:
First of all, there is no need to call people morons just because you think their incredulity is disparaging.
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But it's perfectly cool for jerks like Stukafox to continually call us who don't believe the "official story" idiots, morons, loons, dipshits, etc. Right? Personal attack are uncalled for, period. We believe what we believe. Get over it.

I agree this presentation was cheesy. It seemed Jesse was having a hard time keeping a straight face throughout the entire episode, which leads me to believe he's doing this for money,as the first poster stated, and doesn't really take stock in what he's presenting in his own show. The guy he interviewed at the beginning of the show had no credibility. I didn't believe a word he said.

Jesse standing outside that building with the "steel girder from the twin towers" inside it shouting "This is what they don't want me to see!!" <sigh> Sorry to tell ya Jesse, but if they didn't want you to see it, you wouldn't be standing there outside that door with a camera crew filming through the tiny slot of a window, that's a fact.

As I was checking the topics, I noticed that my original post came across as far more aggressive than I had intended. Worse, I appeared to be targeting -you-, rather than the more general "group of folks who are followers of these claims". You've always given me the impression that you're a fairly reasonable sort, and I'd really rather not be a jerk in your general direction, if you know what I mean.

In reply to this comment by EndAll:
>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^vaporlock:
He never even gave a fact throughout the whole video... You can tell by the buzz words he is just another Right Wing hack. I'm sure the treaty sucks, but a "World Communist Government". Come on. There are hardly any Communist governments as it is now. Where are all the Commies supposed to come from I wonder.

-I- think they'll probably come from the same place as the rest of this delusion...from the asses of the right-wing loons.
I mean, are you serious? You actually want me to take a political analysis by Chuck Norris, of a completely outrageous conspiracy theory, and treat it as somehow meaningful? That'd be like getting my political analysis from Ted Nugent...and just as likely to happen. Although, I will admit that at least Norris is no chickenhawk. That doesn't seem to have prevented a few screws from coming loose, however. Maybe it's all those blows to the head.


I didn't ask you to do anything, let alone pick out ONE article linked in the description that I copypasted to serve as the collective punching bag for this here sift. Do you have anything to actually say about the content of the video?

>> ^EndAll:
>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^vaporlock:
He never even gave a fact throughout the whole video... You can tell by the buzz words he is just another Right Wing hack. I'm sure the treaty sucks, but a "World Communist Government". Come on. There are hardly any Communist governments as it is now. Where are all the Commies supposed to come from I wonder.

-I- think they'll probably come from the same place as the rest of this delusion...from the asses of the right-wing loons.
I mean, are you serious? You actually want me to take a political analysis by Chuck Norris, of a completely outrageous conspiracy theory, and treat it as somehow meaningful? That'd be like getting my political analysis from Ted Nugent...and just as likely to happen. Although, I will admit that at least Norris is no chickenhawk. That doesn't seem to have prevented a few screws from coming loose, however. Maybe it's all those blows to the head.

I didn't ask you to do anything, let alone pick out ONE article linked in the description that I copypasted to serve as the collective punching bag for this here sift. Do you have anything to actually say about the content of the video?


Sorry, it -was- rather buried in my flabbergastation... But I think "... of a completely outrageous conspiracy theory..." pretty well sums it up.

By definition, treaties don't "cede US sovereignty"...since we (well, the Senate) have to both approve them, and then pass any supporting legislation needed.

On a side note, I have a really hard time understanding why some people (almost always right-wingers) seem to feel that -any- cooperation with other countries is somehow a bad thing.

>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^vaporlock:
He never even gave a fact throughout the whole video... You can tell by the buzz words he is just another Right Wing hack. I'm sure the treaty sucks, but a "World Communist Government". Come on. There are hardly any Communist governments as it is now. Where are all the Commies supposed to come from I wonder.

-I- think they'll probably come from the same place as the rest of this delusion...from the asses of the right-wing loons.
I mean, are you serious? You actually want me to take a political analysis by Chuck Norris, of a completely outrageous conspiracy theory, and treat it as somehow meaningful? That'd be like getting my political analysis from Ted Nugent...and just as likely to happen. Although, I will admit that at least Norris is no chickenhawk. That doesn't seem to have prevented a few screws from coming loose, however. Maybe it's all those blows to the head.


I didn't ask you to do anything, let alone pick out ONE article linked in the description that I copypasted to serve as the collective punching bag for this here sift. Do you have anything to actually say about the content of the video?

>> ^vaporlock:
He never even gave a fact throughout the whole video... You can tell by the buzz words he is just another Right Wing hack. I'm sure the treaty sucks, but a "World Communist Government". Come on. There are hardly any Communist governments as it is now. Where are all the Commies supposed to come from I wonder.


-I- think they'll probably come from the same place as the rest of this delusion...from the asses of the right-wing loons.

I mean, are you serious? You actually want me to take a political analysis by Chuck Norris, of a completely outrageous conspiracy theory, and treat it as somehow meaningful? That'd be like getting my political analysis from Ted Nugent...and just as likely to happen. Although, I will admit that at least Norris is no chickenhawk. That doesn't seem to have prevented a few screws from coming loose, however. Maybe it's all those blows to the head.

^Profit from it? I think what this video is trying to do is be what the media should be, a watch dog. Granted, this is chop full of sensationalism and glances over things that are important, but it is at least making an effort to look out for "the man" and serve the interests of "the little guy". It seems like people who call shenanigans now are attacked with "loon" or "conspiracy nut" kind of ad hominem attacks.

While it isn't formal education, it is at least something to break the cycle of thought one normally is exposed to. A break from status que thinking that you would get at...say your local library. Established educational academia has a vested interests to not look "cooky" as it could detract from their attendance pool. They have a vested interest in not deviating from what you would expect. Being edgy or insightful goes against established academia and it is why a lot of real revolutionary thought comes from outside the university system.

Even well educated people on economics don't have any transparency into the fed. It is only partly a government organization, the business conducted in them is not a matter of public record. Recent attempts to make it so have been blocked and that is what the video is pointing out in the first 50mins or so. That massive cronyism and misconduct was and still is being conducted to rob the people of their savings to benefit a very small number of firms that generate no wealth.

I don't see why you would find it odd that the rich would conspire with other rich to protect their wealth and power. The history on this; mercantilism, cartels, feudalism, oligopolies, is just to clear to ignore. I think this video did a good job in capturing where these potential men in black coats could be, and if they are, offer a very interesting perspective into possible goals and means to archive those goals. I love war gaming. What I mean is to take a situation and map it out to its ends. Most people get ridiculed when they do this out in open air, which is a shame.

That made me giggle like a loon.  If loons could giggle.