RIP Gil Scott-Heron *promote

So they have 'evidence' that no one is allowed to see and that wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

Come back and look at the real world. Arrest warrants for Osama were already issued in 1998 for murder. He was formally indicted by an American court that listened to first hand witness testimony and satellite phone records for the embassy bombings long before 9/11 ever happened. He was unquestionably the leader of Al Qaeda, a terrorist organization responsible for 10's of thousands of civilian deaths, even if you exclude the victims of 9/11 from the count. And you still have the audacity to question if Osama was guilty?

What is wrong with you?!?!

As to 9/11 there is no if around Osama's guilt there either, even though it matters not to his guilt as a mass murdering terrorist leader. Ahmad Shah Massoud was the leader of Afghanistan's Northern Alliance. He spent most of 2001 warning Europe and the west that Al Qaeda was planning something 'bigger' than it had done before against America, and that it would happen soon. On September 10th, 2001 he was killed by assassins working for Al Qaeda. It's worth noting that Ahmad Shah Massoud was also one of the few people that the Afghan people could have been united around in a push to remove the Taliban and Al Qaeda. But I suppose you would call that circumstantial evidence, right? It's pure coincidence that the man warning of the attacks of 9/11 and able to help in retaliating after was assassinated the day before the 9/11 attacks were carried out! So if that is insufficient, when Hamid Gil interview Osama Bin Laden AFTER the 9/11 attacks, Osama spent a great deal of time and effort showing all the evidence that he and only he could have been the one that planned and coordinated the attacks.

No, you don't see that whether at war or not, you don't just start treating people like sub humans.
No, you don't see. Killing Osama as part of a military operation against a terrorist leader is different from a routine traffic stop. In a military operation ethics around killing go as far as offering a chance for surrender when it is possible to do so without risking your soldiers lives. If that offer of surrender is refused, bullets fly. Do really advocate for a world where the American's should have called up the Pakistani police and asked them to go knock on the door and ask Osama to come out? That leads to dead police officers, and Osama's escape. Assuming of course the police officers sent weren't sympathetic to Osama and called him up so he could leave even before the police arrive. That kind of failure is NOT respecting human life. It directly results in the continued killing of Pakistani civilians by Osama's terrorist network.

You seem to fancy yourself as someone who's objections to seeing Osama dead are based on a respect for life. You need to take that thought and give it an additional 5 minutes of critical analysis. Every day Osama remained free was another day that he directly provided support and leadership to the intentional killing of innocent civilians.

>> ^undefined:

It took almost two minutes for me to recognize Lee Majors... unless it isn't him???


Nope, Gil Gerard.

"Beedee beedee beedee, Hey Buck!"

Ya, No doubt. I'm sure they wanted the hit and they wanted it to be the whalers fault. I'm not sure if they put themselves in front or if they were slightly to the side and the whaler veered to to make the hit. I'm just telling you what "Captain Watson" said...

>> ^MilkmanDan:
If that video depicted the Ady Gil being "suddenly rammed", I'll have to reevaluate my definitions of both of those words. Sort of like when people stop a car on a highway just after a high-speed semi-blind turn and wait to get hit so they can sue the driver, because rear-ending another car is almost always automatically determined to be the fault of the rear-ender.>> ^Sagemind:
...
Captain Watson said the Ady Gil was idling in Antarctic waters when it was suddenly rammed by the Japanese ship Shonan Maru, which was providing security to Japan's whaling fleet.
...

If that video depicted the Ady Gil being "suddenly rammed", I'll have to reevaluate my definitions of both of those words. Sort of like when people stop a car on a highway just after a high-speed semi-blind turn and wait to get hit so they can sue the driver, because rear-ending another car is almost always automatically determined to be the fault of the rear-ender.>> ^Sagemind:
...
Captain Watson said the Ady Gil was idling in Antarctic waters when it was suddenly rammed by the Japanese ship Shonan Maru, which was providing security to Japan's whaling fleet.
...

Wow, for a site that seems to favour rational scepticism, you don't really believe in research, do you?

The Ady Gil is a former Earthrace boat that was donated to Sea Shepherd. They didn't build or buy it themselves. But then again, if you fail at spelling "ton" or "little", I guess I can't expect much in the way of intelligent thought.

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^vaporlock:
I don't give a f^ck what your political bent is. You can't ram a ship in the middle of the ocean. They will be able to buy twenty of those little boats after the lawyers get done with them. WTF

Apparently you've never driven a boat before. One of the most basic rules is that the largest ship ALWAYS has the right of way. The reason is fundamental physics, the larger the ship, the more momentum it has meaning stopping or turning it is going to take much longer. A small boat like the one here doesn't get by hit a large ship like this unless it gets too close ON PURPOSE.
A boat that much smaller could literally run circles around the larger ship all day long and no matter how hard the larger ship tried it could never ram the smaller boat, it's just too slow and unwieldy by comparison.


Actually, if you watch this footage and the footage from the Bob Barker closely you'll see two things occur: in the video from the Shonan Maru, you'll see the water at the back of the Ady Gil churn just before the impact; and in the video from the Bob Barker, you'll see the bow of the Ady Gil lurch out of the water and move forward a bit.

Now I'm not a marine expert but I can tell you from the fair amount of boating I've done, both of those factors imply that the Gil throttled up just before being hit. My take is that they wanted to be hit and moved the boat into position to be struck.

Also the Ady Gil, formerly Earth Race, was designed as a highspeed craft, so it's very likely that even at "idle speed" it moves through the water with some vigor.

The footage from the Barker is also rather deceptive, because it appears to show the Shonan Maru turning toward the Ady Gil, but what is actually being seen is the camera angle change as the Barker sails forward and pans the camera to the right of the scene. You can tell this is what is occurring because the Gil's profile changes as well.

Idling?? I see it moving against another ship, and a big one. Not that I know much about ships, but if I was the one on the small high-tech touch-me-and-i-will-break-down ship, I would have steered away from the big i-eat-whales-for-breakfast ship instead of "idling" against it.
>> ^Sagemind:
Captain Watson said the Ady Gil was idling in Antarctic waters (...)

>> ^Sagemind:
Captain Watson said the Ady Gil was idling in Antarctic waters when it was suddenly rammed by the Japanese ship Shonan Maru, which was providing security to Japan's whaling fleet.


Seriously, could a ship that size sneak up on you and "suddenly ram" anybody with half a brain? And if getting hit by the firehose (prior to being "suddenly rammed") wasn't incentive enough to get out of the way, fuck 'em, i say.

"Thanks to a $1 million donation from its namesake, US multi-millionaire Ady Gil, formerly known as Earthrace, the Ady Gil has become the latest addition to the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's protest fleet". I quote Linda Carel: "(do you) you support the Japanese fisherman illegally shooting pregnant mother whales with spear guns that explode inside of them…in an area named a sanctuary by the IWC, which Japan refuses to abide by? Why would they? It serves them to refuse to recognize this sanctuary… the fish are so plentiful - they come to what they think is their safe haven to give birth to their calves." Whaling is wrong - especially in protected waters - so these people should be applauded for braving the harsh conditions and putting up a fight. >> ^westy:
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
1.5m dollars on a boat...the true spirit of the modern conservationist movement.

lol yah if they had any brains they would have gotten say 20 cheep boats that way they could scare whales of from all the whalers.

The $1.5m, 79 foot long 'stealth' boat Ady Gil sank after the collision in Southern Ocean but its six man crew was rescued uninjured, said Captain Paul Watson, founder of the radical environmental group Sea Shepherd.

Captain Watson said the Ady Gil was idling in Antarctic waters when it was suddenly rammed by the Japanese ship Shonan Maru, which was providing security to Japan's whaling fleet.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/video-stealth-boats-bow-sliced-off-in-whaling-clash-2001210.html

-taken from Demon_ix's accidental dupe of this video - I didn't want this info to be lost.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'whale wars escalate, japanese, whaling, southern ocean' to 'sea shepherd, ady gil, ship, trimaran, japanese, whaler, whale wars, collision' - edited by Sagemind

Who is this "Gil" asshole? He makes the Olbyloon look good by comparison. Threatening to kill Sarah Palin and using the "tea bagger" line in less than 20 seconds? Dealing with a real class act here.

Thank you. You are truly awesome!

In reply to this comment by Ornthoron:
>> ^vairetube:
I didn't know bob newhart played the trumpet so well ~2:48

That is Lew Soloff, one of the worlds loudest trumpet players. The second soloist is Branford Marsalis on soprano sax if I'm not mistaken. I own the live album this is featured on, and it seems to be recorded directly from the mixing board of this particular performance, as I recognize the solos and even the accidental feedback towards the end.

*promote

>> ^vairetube:
I didn't know bob newhart played the trumpet so well ~2:48

That is Lew Soloff, one of the worlds loudest trumpet players. The second soloist is Branford Marsalis on soprano sax if I'm not mistaken. I own the live album this is featured on, and it seems to be recorded directly from the mixing board of this particular performance, as I recognize the solos and even the accidental feedback towards the end.

*promote