"In addition to 'teaching', an educator also needs to be a leader, a negotiator, a salesman, a disciplinarian, a politician, an administrator, a motivator, a receptionist, an advocate, a librarian, a manager, a public relations agent, a psychologist, an entertainer, an accountant, and for some students, a parent. If you are a music teacher, you get even more hats - arranger, copyist, bus scheduler, event planner, fund raiser, critic, graphic designer, contractor etc. (Running a high school band is like running a business, complete with a board, fundraiser income, expenses, employees, audits, etc.)"

lol

I studied to become a teacher once, and I do not agree with the conclusions of this video.

Choice in schools is not solving the problem, there will still be areas with bad schools only and therefore children not learning; choice in schools is centralising, not creating equal education for everyone. It works for a small country like Belgium, but not for a country which is spread as thin as the US.
What I've learned from personal experience when studying English and geography and pedagogy to become a teacher, and studying other countries' educational concepts, is a combination of: long and good education for the teachers, in pedagogy, classroom-management, and their subjects; alongside good pay and a long probation-period (2 years +) under elder teachers and federal performance-evaluators.

Plus, there's cultural factors: As we all know from GOP-debates, there is a strong anti-science bias in large areas of USAmerica. And due to the melting-pot/salad-bowl mix of American citizens, there's, brashly put, this.

I often wondered what Nazis thought of public schools. Finally I can put that aching suspicion to rest.

>> ^blankfist:

I often wondered what Nazis thought of public schools. Finally I can put that aching suspicion to rest.

........ are you seriously calling me a Nazi?

In my experience what matters most is the administration; because if you can't control your classroom then real learning time gets cut to next to nothing.

I've been on both sides of the fence in that regard.

I've sent kids to the office for spitting on each other and throwing things across the room and had them sent right back to class after 5-10 minutes. What kind of message does that send to the rest of the class? "I can do anything I want, and I wont get in trouble for it even if I end up in the principal's office." And when you can't effectively discipline students in a classroom (if the principal doesn't matter, why should the teacher?) it quickly turns into chaos. (See school @ 3:30 in the video)

That's not to say it's completely unmanageable (I've called home, held students after class even when they refuse to stay by physically blocking the doorway, talked to coaches, etc) but when they know there will be no final consequence the result is a lot of what you see in this video (and those kids were ON camera).

However, I've also have tremendously supportive administrators who knew that taking a hard line on many discipline issues solves a lot of problems, leads to more respect for staff in general from the students, and creates a better learning environment overall. (See school @ 4:30 and the school @ 9:45) <<< ONE GOOD PRINCIPAL MADE THAT DIFFERENCE
It's hard to imagine how anything can get done in the 3:30 school but I PROMISE you, I've stepped in for teachers who had poor classroom management skills, I promise you those kids would turn around if they were given appropriately significant consequences.

*education

Dude, enough of the creepy ex-girlfriend routine. So I booted you from my Facebook account. Who cares? Get a life.

>> ^blankfist:

"In addition to 'teaching', an educator also needs to be a leader, a negotiator, a salesman, a disciplinarian, a politician, an administrator, a motivator, a receptionist, an advocate, a librarian, a manager, a public relations agent, a psychologist, an entertainer, an accountant, and for some students, a parent. If you are a music teacher, you get even more hats - arranger, copyist, bus scheduler, event planner, fund raiser, critic, graphic designer, contractor etc. (Running a high school band is like running a business, complete with a board, fundraiser income, expenses, employees, audits, etc.)"
lol

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Dude, enough of the creepy ex-girlfriend routine. So I booted you from my Facebook account. Who cares? Get a life.


Some ego you got there, bud. This song ain't about you.

@blankfist
Teaching is one of the few things I think really can not be understood in theoretical terms. I thought I was fully prepared for my first teaching job after student teaching, but they don't tell you that some students will challenge your authority, some have parents who don't care, some have parents who think their children can do no wrong, some will miss class constantly, some will refuse to learn, some will disrupt, some will lack confidence, some have horrific home lives, some are extremely forgetful, some lie about being extremely forgetful, some never eat, some come to class hopped up on RedBull, some are homeless, and some, are so far gone they are nearly unreachable.

In a class of 25-30 you can hope for 5-10 'vanilla' students who have problems that are easily manageable. The rest are the ones you always work towards the best for, but that work must always be balanced so that it's of minimal detriment to said students' classmates.

It's a very difficult job and your callus remarks have made me respect you less.

@JiggaJonson, teaching can be tough. As tough as any job. It's difficult to gauge opinions when people work in the industry or have at one point, because naturally there'd be a bias. I have no doubt the majority of teachers are great. But the system isn't great.

And then there are those who put teachers near sainthood. I had a number teachers I've looked back on fondly and think they were a great influence. But I think anyone of us can say that of just about any profession most likely.

Narcissistic personality disorder

Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which people have an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves.
Causes, incidence, and risk factors

The causes of this disorder are unknown. An overly sensitive personality and parenting problems may affect the development of this disorder.

Symptoms

A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation

Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals

Have excessive feelings of self-importance

Exaggerate achievements and talents

Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love

Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment

Need constant attention and admiration

Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy

Have obsessive self-interest

Pursue mainly selfish goals

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/

@blankfist

I apologize if this sounds discourteous or vein, but no. Teaching is not as tough as any job. It's tougher. The number is high in this quote but I think he nailed it on the head here:

"If a doctor, lawyer, or dentist had 40 people in his office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer, or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them all with professional excellence for nine months, then he might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job." ~Donald D. Quinn

About charter schools. If they have to kick someone out, guess where they go? Back to the public schools. At public schools, we have to take EVERYBODY.

Are you guys talking about me?

I just thought you might be talking about me.

I'm not a teacher. I don't have any thoughts or views on this, but I went to school so I thought you might be referring to me.

So thanks for thinking of me in regard to this. But I'm really super busy right now doing really important other things with more important people in my awesomely high powered job.

So, enjoy your little discussion.

>> ^JiggaJonson:

@blankfist
I apologize if this sounds discourteous or vein, but no. Teaching is not as tough as any job. It's tougher. The number is high in this quote but I think he nailed it on the head here:
"If a doctor, lawyer, or dentist had 40 people in his office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer, or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them all with professional excellence for nine months, then he might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job." ~Donald D. Quinn


I think administrators and bureaucrats have ruined the school system not the teachers. But, to say your teaching job is tougher than other jobs is an appeal for emotion. And honestly there's no research that proves that.

I know people who work a fucking lot. And I mean no less than 13 hour days, and sometimes up to 36 hours nonstop. I'd say their jobs are pretty tough.

>> ^DerHasisttot:

>> ^blankfist:
I often wondered what Nazis thought of public schools. Finally I can put that aching suspicion to rest.
........ are you seriously calling me a Nazi?


No. But your "culture" was. And in the last 200 years, too.

You should learn about throwing stones in that glass house of yours, SS.

@blankfist

Research that purporting that teaching is a difficult job based on 6 criteria. I suggest the whole document but here's the jest of it.
______________________________________________
---------->Societal Attitude:
The participants in this study believed that the attitude of society toward the teaching profession was unfair and detrimental to their overall functioning. They did not believe that they were valued, despite their advanced levels of education. In a recent nationwide survey of over 11,000 teachers and teacher candidates, Henke, Chen, Geis, and Knepper (2000) found that only 14.6% of the teachers surveyed were satisfied with the esteem in which society held the teaching profession.

--->Denise, a high school English teacher addressed the issue of respect:

"There is a lack of respect for teachers. It's not just the money, but also the attitude I get from administrators and politicians that teachers are trying to get away with something. We have taken these cushy jobs where all we have to do is stand up in front of a bunch of kids and BS for a few hours, and only work ten months of the year, at that teachers have it easy! Every time we ask for something (like, in my county, that the county pay our contribution to the state retirement system, for example), they make us out to look like whiners - give 'em an inch; they'll take a mile. The truth is, though, that teachers care so deeply and work SO much beyond our "contract hours." I can't tell you how many come in for weeks during the summer, as I do, and take on clubs after school (for which we are not compensated), and work during vacations. This lack of respect for teachers gets me down."
______________________________________________
---------->Financial Issues:
On top of the perception that they are not being valued by society, teachers are notoriously underpaid in our country. Four years after their graduation, Henke et al. (2000) surveyed a large sample of college graduates between 1992-1993. They found that the teachers were tied with clerical staff and service workers for the lowest salaries. A recent report from the American Federation of Teachers (AFT, 2000) found the following to be the case for the 2000-2001 school year:

For new teachers, the $28,986 average beginning salary lagged far behind starting salary offers in other fields for new college graduates. For example, accounting graduates were offered an average $37,143; sales/marketing, $40,033; math/statistics, $49,548; computer science, $49,749; and engineering, $50,033.
The $43,250 average teacher salary fell short of average wages of other white-collar occupations, the report found. For example, mid-level accountants earned an average $52,664, computer system analysts, $71,155; engineers, $74,920; and attorneys, $82,712.
The majority of the participants in this study related that they were simply not paid enough to live comfortably. They drove old cars and lived in inexpensive apartments. Others struggled to save enough money to buy a home.

--->Calvin, a high school science teacher, talked about his pay:

"I love teaching, but I don't know if I love it enough to deprive my family and myself of necessities. I have a baby and another on the way. I can't see how I can ever save enough to make a down payment on a house, even with a second job in the summer."
______________________________________________
---------->Time Scarcity:
Many new teachers were physically and emotionally fatigued to the point of exhaustion. They reported that they worked long days at school, and then took home lesson plans to create, papers to grade, and parents to call. They also worked nights and weekends on school-related work.

--->Jessica, a high school math teacher:

"I work 70 hours a week, and after 3 years it's not getting any better. When Friday night rolls around, all I want to do is fall asleep at 8 p.m.! Obviously that doesn't lead to a very exciting social life, or much of a "life" at all, if I can hardly stay awake long enough to go out to dinner with my friends and family. Even at holidays there are always papers to grade."

--->Fred, a high school English teacher also had difficulty with the amount of time required to do his job, pointing to the effect the time constraints had on family relationships:

The time commitment is the worst. During my first two years of teaching I worked 70-80 hour weeks, including time worked during the school day, in the evenings and over the weekend. Time commitment varies with the subject taught and with experience, but this aspect of the job nearly ran me out of teaching on several occasions and I witnessed one great new teacher leave teaching for this very reason. "It's my job or my marriage," she explained. "I never see my husband, and we're living under the same roof."

______________________________________________
---------->Workload:
The data reveal that it is nearly impossible for a conscientious teacher to complete all that is expected of them in one school day. At the high school level, teachers were teaching five or more classes in a traditional school, and three in a block schedule school. For each class this meant that the teacher's task was to design a complete lesson lasting at least one hour. This lesson had to follow the state curriculum, be engaging and interesting to students, and include various components as required by the school district, such as a warm-up, class activities, and homework. The teachers wanted to use outside resources such as the Internet to connect the material to real world applications. Additionally, they reported that there were often several special needs students in the class, and each of them needed some special accommodation. They found that planning was not a trivial task; it took several hours to design one effective instructional plan.

According to the teachers in this study, class sizes were another difficult feature of the teacher's day. In public high schools, most class sizes ranged from 25 to 35 students for a total of 125-175 students in a traditional school, and 75-105 in a four period block school. Henke et al. (2000) reported that the average number of students taught by secondary teachers each day is 115.8.

--->Abby, a high school history teacher explained the effect of large class sizes:

"Imagine any other professional trying to deal with the needs of this many "customers" at one time. If a physician were seeing patients, and grouped this many together, it is readily apparent how ridiculous it would be to expect her or him to address the needs of each person. The same is true for teachers.
Each student is an individual, with needs and issues that must be addressed. In a class period, the teachers expressed frustration because they could not address the needs of 25 or more students. "

--->Gina, a former high school science teacher described the variety in her workload as well as in her students' abilities:

"What I least expected was the amount of paperwork I had to do. Grading papers, progress reports, parent conferences, English-as-a-Second Language, exceptional students, ADD paperwork, and even work for absent students seem to take more time than "teaching."

To compound the issue, teachers also related many learning issues, where students had questions or misunderstandings that could easily have been cleared up with a few minutes of one-on-one time. They also reported discipline issues that got more serious when they were not addressed. Some students were bored. Some lacked basic skills and could not perform without help. In general, the teachers expressed being frustrated because they are educated professionals who could address these issues, if there were time to get to everyone. There was simply not enough time to address the variety of issues that simultaneously too place. Farkas et al. (2000) reported that 86% of new teachers report that the change most likely to improve teaching is reducing class size.

--->Eva, a high school English teacher summed up her frustration with large class sizes.

"This was not a matter of poor time management; it was a matter of too many students with too many needs and one harried teacher trying to be superhuman. There were times that I had a great lesson plan, only to have it totally derailed because of one or two students who needed individual attention and could not get it."

The total number of students that this professional was expected to evaluate, plan, and care for each day was as many as 150.
______________________________________________
---------->Working Conditions:
School administrators varied in their support of young teachers, and many teachers reported that this support was inadequate. The new teachers felt that they were evaluated and judged, but they would have preferred real feedback and suggestions for improvement of their teaching. They felt that they were often not supported in discipline issues or in conflicts with parents.

--->Carol, a former high school math teacher:

"I was very frustrated with the lack of support from my principal/administration in that after three observations I never got any feedback either in written or verbal form. I never really knew how I was doing. I felt I was doing a good job, but did not think the administration cared one way or the other."

--->Fran, a high school mathematics teacher expressed a need for more funds:

"Teachers should be given all the supplies that they need - $25 is not enough! At all other jobs that I have worked at, whatever you need to do your job is provided."
______________________________________________
---------->Relationships with Students and Parents:
A common problem reported by beginning teachers was student apathy. Many of the novice teachers reported that students had no interest in learning. In addition to attendance problems, a number of students often came to class without pencil, paper, and textbook. It was difficult to force or entice them to participate in classwork, and virtually impossible to get them to do homework.

--->Owen, a former high school mathematics teacher, was frustrated by his students' apathy:

"The vast majority of my students had no interest in learning math and I quickly tired of trying to force them (or entice them). They refused to bring paper or pencil to class, refused to do homework or classwork, and frequently came to class late or not at all. Most of them, to my great surprise, were not at all belligerent or confrontational about their refusal to do anything in class; they just had no intention of working at anything."

--->Mattie, a former high school history teacher, could not deal with the frustration:

"I just became very frustrated teaching to a class of 20 students and about 5 were interested or at least concerned with their grades. I decided not to return, because I was so exhausted and depressed at the end of the year. I just couldn't see "wasting" my time in a classroom where the kids don't care about themselves or what you're trying to accomplish."

--->Eugene, a former high school math teacher, also reported problems with apathy:

"I was frustrated with the apathy of the students. Many days I felt as though I was standing up there talking to myself. It was the longest year of my life. I was an emotional wreck because I felt as if the kids/parents didn't care enough to try or participate."

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^DerHasisttot:
>> ^blankfist:
I often wondered what Nazis thought of public schools. Finally I can put that aching suspicion to rest.
........ are you seriously calling me a Nazi?

No. But your "culture" was. And in the last 200 years, too.
You should learn about throwing stones in that glass house of yours, SS.

My culture, if one only sees the german aspect, was culturally way more unified (although split up in many countries) over the last 200 years than the USA. Nazis were fewer than 10% of those 200 years. The germanic peoples as a whole are referenced as early as 100 AD.

And because you're such a *---------------------------* and call me a Nazi and then SS I would very much like to see you hobbled as I can't fly over to the USA and *-----------------* personally.

These are words that I would not call anyone unless I was 99& sure that this was their ideology, because it fucking hurts to be called NAZI AND SS if you know anything about history.

As a nazi German, I don't approve of hobbling children.

>> ^blankfist:

@JiggaJonson, teaching can be tough. As tough as any job. It's difficult to gauge opinions when people work in the industry or have at one point, because naturally there'd be a bias.


And people who haven't worked in the industry don't have a fucking clue just how tough it is...

This German and sometimes Narcissist asks if we can please keep the discussion on topic.
Thank you for your support.

Don't blame teachers, kids are idiots.

I just wish schools and universities would all install phone blockers already... The smart phone is worst thing to ever happen to education


aside from no child left behind...

>> ^residue:

I just wish schools and universities would all install phone blockers already... The smart phone is worst thing to ever happen to education

aside from no child left behind...


Schools you may have an argument (not much of one, this is just a modern version of whatever was the major distraction 30 years ago, let's be real here), but universities? Where adults voluntarily attend a learning facility? Mental idea.

It's not mental at all. If you're paying me to teach you, you need to trust that I know what's best for you and to give me the chance to teach you as well as I can. That means turn your stupid phone off for 50 minutes. It would be like complaining to alcoholics anonymous that you can't drink beer at the meetings even though you're a paying customer.

What do you suggest about exams? Should college students be able to use their phones during exams?
>> ^dannym3141:

>> ^residue:
I just wish schools and universities would all install phone blockers already... The smart phone is worst thing to ever happen to education

aside from no child left behind...

Schools you may have an argument (not much of one, this is just a modern version of whatever was the major distraction 30 years ago, let's be real here), but universities? Where adults voluntarily attend a learning facility? Mental idea.

@residue

I have several reasons as to why banning mobile phones at UNIVERSITY would be a bad idea and should never happen. However let me fully recover from being speechless - the alcoholics anonymous thing coupled with the phones in exams thing caught me by surprise. Exams are an individual test of the skill of a person using only their brain and whatever limited resources you provide, it has no place in this discussion and if you're an educator, you should know that. Let's not waste time with nonsense like that or frivolous analogies.

So, mobile phones are RIGHTLY removed from exams and they ask people not to use them in lectures because if you're making noise, or shining a bright light sometimes, it is distracting to your peers and the lecturer (which impacts on other students); one's own careless mobile phone usage hinders the learning of other students. Careful use of the internet on my mobile phone in physics lectures really helps me understand things at times - not to mention reminders and schedules for assessed work or reading.

At a university you are an adult, you've volunteered to attend, it isn't a school any more. Lecturers are not teachers and teachers are not lecturers; there is a world of difference. The lecturers at my university would certainly agree that it is not their job to make you learn, whilst school teachers have the harder job in that they in a way DO. Uni students are already interested by dint of asking to be there, school students are forced there by law and attend all subjects, not their favoured one.

Not to mention that university policies are DICTATED by students. The universities know that student satisfaction is what can make or break a university's reputation - especially for newer universities (ie. not historic establishments). I'm a student liaison for my course, meaning i go to question and feedback sessions from the students to the lecturers. One thing that gets lecturers listening is when you imply that a lot of students have a bad opinion about something. We've had many policies changed in the first year which has improved our ability to learn and solved many problems. Why do they care? Because if student reviews are bad, they slip in rankings, their uni appears less desirable. Almost all students would hate a policy of mobile phone bans, so you can see how it would go down.

"I know best how to teach students" is an old fashioned and i would even say negligent line to tow. I do not intend that to be an insult, i've tried to be quite polite here and have a civil discussion but i believe this is true based on my experiences. One of the key focuses of our lecturers is that lectures can and should be tailored to best deliver the course content to those present, that is why our lecturers offer us key choices and respond to our feedback, and i believe that is why our university's physics department is growing and becoming world renowned. I think that in all walks of life, it is wise to always be open to adjustments or improvements, and to never ever think that you have finished learning.

This is not important but i feel i should offer this information - i have a teaching family (30+ years in teaching, all of them), school teachers but no uni lecturers. My opinions on schools comes from my life with them and my uni opinions comes from my involvement with my uni. I hope it is at least an "educated" opinion, no pun intended.

/walloftext, sorry, but i did try to present my ideas and opinions well for you.

Imagine my surprise when I stumbled across this, after reading this blog:

From Sept 2011 issue of Harper's Magazine. Excerpt from an article entitled Getting Schooled. Emphasis mine.

"My point here is that even under ideal circumstances, public school teaching is one of the hardest jobs a person can do. Most sensible people know that. Anyone who claims not to know that is either a scoundrel or a nincompoop; or, to put it another way, a typical expert on everything that's wrong with American public education and the often damaged children that it serves."

@dannym3141 Thanks for the thought-out response, I can tell you have strong opinion on the topic of education and I appreciate the discourse. The AA analogy was not meant as a strict analogy between the services rendered in their respective classes, it was meant to imply that just because the majority population in a voluntary environment wants to do something doesn't mean it will be beneficial to them in the end. In this case the restriction placed on drinking beer at an AA meeting is very similar to phone usage in large classrooms in that it is detrimental to the student and everyone around them.

I do understand the desire to quickly check something online for clarification (terms perhaps) BUT there are a lot of studies that indicating that the increased availability and instant gratification of just googling something to remember a term is harmful for long term retention. There are also multiple studies indicating that ability to multitask also goes way down despite the common misconception that constant usage of mobile devices enhances that ability. In a classroom environment, say your physics class, I would highly recommend that if you are confused on something to ask your instructor to clarify or provide context or examples of confusing topics or terms rather than looking them up.

Now, let's be a little more realistic here and point out that there is no way that everyone on their phone in class is using it to help them learn. Most of the time they are texting, twittering facebooking, etc. which is a waste of time. First of all, I want to say that I don't care, you're paying, you can do what you want, and at some level I do agree with that, but the problem is if you are anywhere near another person, which is hard to avoid in a classroom, you are almost certainly distracting them. In my large lectures, everyone on a laptop has to sit in the back so they aren't bothering the people behind them. Phones are a bigger problem since everyone has them and the addiction to the stupid things is such a distraction to them personally just because of constant desire to just check something real quick.

Anyway, there are legitimate ways around this and I employ them. The key is to keep them engaged so they are too "distracted" by learning to bother with their stupid phones. Basically, strict lecture is broken up by multiple class exercises. Drawing things, predictive demos, retrieval practices, think-pair-share, wall walks, conceptest, etc. etc. Ways to make them engaged and THINK about learning instead of just sitting there hearing things all day. These are effective teaching methods and help to keep students motivated and entertained.

As far as actually implementing a blocking system, I know it's not going to happen (for all the reasons you described), but to argue that you should be able to use your phone in class if you like will never be something I'm on board with. Laptops are theoretically being used to take notes (even though they usually aren't) but a phone has no place in class unless it's being used for some form of directed classroom participation (clickers, specific apps, demos) because you can't do anything constructive with it that couldn't be done better by student-teacher interaction. Question is asking is also better than quick checking a phone as other students also benefit from the clarification of something that was probably not explained very well.

I guess if there is a silver lining it's that the constant use of phones has forced a lot of educators to adjust their teaching to adapt to the problems that were always there but were less obvious without the visual clue of students playing on their phones. Before they were daydreaming, now they're playing on the phone. The main difference, from my perspective, is that daydreaming doesn't distract your neighbor, but your phone does.

Thanks for the responses, I'm always open to opinions, especially when they're wildly different from my own.