Romney is such a tool. McCain's no better. How do any of those clowns presume to be presidential timbre. Paul's the only honest one on the stage.

A man that can't admit that water-boarding is torture is a man at odds with reality.

...so that's what water boarding is!

The usage of torture is a strategic failure in the process of information gathering from the enemy.

First of all it assumes that the terrorist organization is a top down informational entity with operational strategy going down to all it's entities. Thus if we capture one combatant in Iraq, we might derive actionable intelligence. That is of course wrong, terrorist organizations operate in cell structures, one cell does not know the existence of a sister cell, this is the viewpoint of the intelligence community post 9/11. This is problematic because it allows the enemy to remain always at large in the political process in Washington, that is why the enemy definition keeps changing, its Osama first, then insurgent forces, then the very broad term of 'Islamic extremism'.

The cell structure thus allows for unrelated parties to assume the guise of representing a greater whole, separate actors can suddenly be part of a larger nebulous whole even though in reality they are not related. This is how Bush in his simplistic assessment of the threats can say there is terrorism from Morocco to Indonesia. In Iraq the US labeled Zarqwi as being an operative member of al-Qaeda, this is beneficial for both sides Osama can claim larger operation status while the US can state that its fighting al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq. However Zarqwi for example did not possess intelligence on operations in Afghanistan, they were not related, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Funny how Osama Bin Laden was called the mastermind of 9/11, in mere hours after the event, what happened to such intelligence gathering clairvoyance?

Looking back at the myriad of enemy combatants captured so far in both Iraq and Afghanistan - we have yet to see any proof of progress with regards to any actionable intelligence being gathered from those sources, because the actors caught were obliviously small fish.

Second it drives away actual informants who would want to switch sides, by creating the 'US against Them' cornerstone the Bush Administration has actually rallied support for terrorist organizations. Operatives who would gain from switching sides would not want to, knowing that they face torture and long term imprisonment. This is how after all these years of war, and "Mission Accomplished", turning the corner, defeating the terrorists: The Taliban control half of Afghanistan and al-Qaeda is reconstituted its strength in Pakistan and Southern Afghanistan.

Third it assumes from the operative viewpoint that ALL enemy combatants would provide under duress reliable actionable intelligence without actually knowing what that could be i.e. we are torturing to find out something we don't even know might exist, the Rumsfled's known unknowns and unknown unknowns - that is of course a logically fallacy. How can you derive intelligence when you don't know what you are trying to get at? This of course translates into increased torture methods against detainees, eventually breaking them to a point where they will tell you anything to get you to stop. Khalid Sheik Mohammad was tortured to the point that he confessed to a whole swell of terrorist plots and acts, intelligence operatives rolled their eyes because it was simply inconceivable that it could be true as it would mean he was in 5 or 6 places at once, there was no concrete evidence to prove it, he was simply saying things to make them stop.

This is dangerous, as its a self feeding cycle, if you torture enemy combatants without a contextual means to an end you would receive all kinds of rubbish, that feeds into paranoia that it's actually real and you then torture even more. Actionable intelligence has a finite time frame, usually less then 6 months, after which the operative in custody is tapped out, the organization would nullify any plans and change their tactics and plans.

Remember that all the so called reliable actionable intelligence for Iraq possessing and developing WMDs came from a single informant. Look where that lead to.

Fourth it loses the sight of how to attain trust, operatives from past conflicts always state that to derive information you must make the actor rely on you, trust in you and eventually befriend you. Interrogators of Nazi war criminals often state how they derived more information in a simple chess game then through torture methods.

Torture is a annihilation of the human spirit, it drives people insane through sleep deprivation, humiliation and water boarding. It nullifies the human psyche into delirium, psychosis and eventual madness, yet we are led to believe that somehow that would prevent another 9/11.

Finally all warfare is tactics, for all of America's military might they were close to defeat by an insurgence that has lapsed back into guerrilla warfare, the tactics shifted. The application of torture would mean the tactics will shift once more.

The question remains - "Is this strategy benefiting our objectives?"

The US administration would of course say "Yes", why wouldn't they. The appointment of Mukasey as Attorney General for the first time showed how abortions and other issues of the previous Justice Department appointments became insignificant, the question was only "Do you believe water boarding is torture?" - It was asked not because it was important as AG but because there are people in the administration who know they have gone too far and are vehemently trying to cover their asses from prosecution. The scandal of Abu Graibh was called as being "a few bad apples", that is of course not true, operational orders came from the top down. The definition of torture rewritten by John Yoo and David Addington. Torture was stricken through Congress, yet it continues through the special signing letters of the President. The public is basically being lied to.

Now American politicians are too scared to stand against it because they lack a backbone and are more worried they might be wrong, fear penetrates the Democratic party while the Republican party is lost after a presidency of fiscal irresponsibility, looming recession, and the 2 never ending wars.

Its not about constitutional rights for terrorists, its about constitutional rights for US Citizens that is under threat. You could find yourself supporting means to an end that will lead into police state.

I don't agree with QM, but I respect that he's direct and honest about his beliefs. What really bothers me are people who will not acknowledge that something as horrible as water boarding is torture.

Endlessly and disingenuously debating the status of these practices is only a distraction from the real issue. The truth is the administration and many of it's supporters believe that torture is useful and acceptable under certain conditions.

I disagree, Israel does not concede land, it paints itself as being the ever ready benefactor waiting for a 'deserving peace partner', while it builds new illegal settlements, asking the Palestinians to sort themselves by which time they claim new stretches of land because lo and behold Israelis live there now.

The problem is not, as Israelis often claim, that Palestinians do not know how to compromise. (Another former prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, famously complained that ‘Palestinians take and take while Israel gives and gives.’) That is an indecent charge, since the Palestinians made much the most far-reaching compromise of all when the PLO formally accepted the legitimacy of Israel within the 1949 armistice border. With that concession, Palestinians ceded their claim to more than half the territory that the UN’s partition resolution had assigned to its Arab inhabitants. They have never received any credit for this wrenching concession, made years before Israel agreed that Palestinians had a right to statehood in any part of Palestine. The notion that further border adjustments should be made at the expense of the 22 per cent of the territory that remains to the Palestinians is deeply offensive to them, and understandably so.

The whole process of Peace in the regards to Israel and Palestine is non-existent, there is a huge imbalance of power that allows Israel to constantly come off as being the retailator of enemy attacks when it stages so many incursion of it's own into Palestinian areas. You claim that they use precision strikes when they form just one component of Israeli occupational strategy which works through road blocks, choke points, incursions into areas, random searches, arrests, house demolitions, removal of citizens, attacking civilian centers. The whole Gaza strip and West bank areas are enclosed open air prisons, movement to and forth is highly controlled.

I don't see how you can reduce this issue to them just needing to get a job and make peace as if violent fighting against Israeli is coded in Palestinian genes, maybe the reasons that attacks continue is because there is actual legitimate abuses that are committed?

Not that this is in any way legitimaizing the terrorist attacks that occur, but after so long I don't see how else the Palestianin people would have not responded.

You mention that Arab countries prosecute Christians and Jews, yet in Iran itself plays host to the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. Iran is not against Israeli people but against Zionism.

Not fair to compare Military prisons to blatant terrorism? So The Decider can pick and choose who he defines as a enemy combatant hold them and torture them as long as necessary with any heabus corpus rights? What of Abu Graibh then? Was that a military prison? Water boarding? I don't understand how degrading our moral standing makes us come off any better. As for the results that this practice produces we are never allowed to know for reasons of national security, yet the government expects us to give them a blank check for everything that they carry out, if we ask too much there 'will be bodies in the streets'.

This is the video equivalent of water boarding.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Darn, I was hoping for O'Rielly. I'd dontate money to see him water boarded.

How is "water-boarding" worse than a choice of jumping off the WTC or burning to death?

"Terrorists represent no country and have no rights under any system of laws; in other words, if you're going to bomb women and children, don't be surprised when you're treated like a chew toy for intel. Anything that saves American lives anywhere from these scum, bravo.

Terrorists have no rights."

These arnt terrorists, they are "suspected terrorists". They recieve no trial, and with the recent laws suspending habius corpus they may not even know what they are being detained for.

Moreso these are citizens of Iraq or Afganistan, and as such they should be protected from such treatment. Im sure I would be a little upset is an arab yanked me from my home, flew me half way arround the world, and tortured me on suspision that I might possibly intend harm on the citizens of there country.

How is "water-boarding" worse than a choice of jumping off the WTC or burning to death?

Spoken like someone who's learned to debate watching Fox News.
I believe that's called a false choice, but thanks for chiming in.

How is "water-boarding" worse than a choice of jumping off the WTC or burning to death?

Terrorists represent no country and have no rights under any system of laws; in other words, if you're going to bomb women and children, don't be surprised when you're treated like a chew toy for intel. Anything that saves American lives anywhere from these scum, bravo.

Terrorists have no rights.

"probably extremely rare"... "it's probably Disney-type stuff. 'Water boarding?' Harsher stuff probably happens every weekend at S&M clubs."

You probably are an idiot. Maybe after you turn 17 and maybe get laid, you will realize what an asshole you've become... probably.

One unnamed U.S. official quoted in the Washington Post stated, "If you don't violate someone's human rights some of the time, you probably aren't doing your job."

However, in its pursuit of total victory at all costs, Japan chose to ignore its obligations under the Geneva Convention of 1929, using torture, slave labor, and other forms of abuse against military and civilian prisoners. After the war, Japan was widely condemned for the inhumanity of its policies, and many Japanese military officers were tried and convicted of war crimes under United States law. One of those war crimes was an interrogation practice markedly similar to what we now call waterboarding. Japanese interrogators covered the prisoner's face with a cloth (Our CIA uses cellophane.) and then poured water on it to create the sensation of drowning, and one Japanese doctor was sentenced to 25 years in prison for that and other abuses.

The National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture, in Chile, issued a report in November, 2004 describing the use of the “submarino” in the early 1970s. One account reads: “Man, detained in September 1973: . . . [T]hey put cotton in both eyes, then adhesive tape on top, and a black hood tied at the neck, they tied my feet and hands tightly and they plunged me in one of those 250 liter barrels of oil which contained ammonia, urine, excrement, and sea water; they submerged me like this until my breath couldn’t hold out, nor my lungs, and they kept repeating this again and again, along with blows and questions, this was what they called, in [the world of] torture, the famous submarine.”

Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment signed by US in 1994:
[I]n order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering and … mental pain or suffering refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from:
(1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(3) the threat of imminent death; or
(4) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality.

"The moment you allow torture to take place, expect the same to happen to your own combatants."

Who did journalist Daniel Pearl torture to earn his slow beheading by koranimals?

Torture by American forces is probably extremely rare. Considering all the wussies begging for terrorists to be given American legal protection as if they were jaywalkers, it's probably Disney-type stuff. 'Water boarding?' Harsher stuff probably happens every weekend at S&M clubs.

If a koranimal knows when an ambush on American troops will take place and torture is the only way to get that information...grab your ankles, Achmed.