>> ^chingalera:

all 144, 000 of em!! I'm FUCKED


That's misconceoption but i'll let it slide this time.. I'm ex JW and i've never seen these clips before.. It's a bird.. It's a plane.. No, it's Jesus! .. superangel..

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:

Well, I guess it's as plausible as any of the other accounts.


Yes !

>> ^Skeeve:

Agreed, for the most part.
He obviously has talent, but to be a great artist one tends to need life experience (often of a darker nature) and that is something he doesn't have.
It should come with time though.
As for why we haven't seen a Mozart, etc. in hundreds of years, maybe its because the great artists of our time aren't composing classical music (which tends to cultivate the misbelief that it is somehow superior). Now, I'm a fan of classical music, but listen to While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Gimme Shelter, or All Along the Watchtower and tell me you don't feel as moved as when listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or The Marriage of Figaro.
>> ^TheFreak:
Bullshit.
Try listening to Jay Greenbergs Symphony no 5. It's horrible.
It's an unorganized cacophany. One moment it sounds every bit like an action movie score then immediately it swings the other way and you'd think you were listening to the music from a 30's cartoon. There's no rhyme or reason behind any of the sounds you hear, no progression, no building of emotion, no story being told, no subtlety or purpose...just great big sloppy swipes of an oversized lyrical paintbrush.
That 60 Minutes segment describes Jay's early and enduring interest in writing music. I believe that's about the only element of the story that's not pure hyperbole. From listening to his music you can tell that he has obviously learned a great deal at a young age about arranging orchestral music. He has knowledge. What he lacks is everything else necessary to create great music.
Boys his age do one thing with great expertise and skill....masturbate. And that's what "Blue Bird" is doing with his music...masturbating all up in your ear holes.
Jay Greenergs interest and dedication to study clasical music composition, as well as the encouragement he's received, has brought him a long way. The real shame is the uncritical feedback he's getting from the people around him. Without anyone to tell him that his music is ham fisted and clumsy there's every likelyhood that his narcisistic self appraisal will lead him to nothing.
Jay Greenberg has demonstrated an impressive ability to learn how to compose in a classical style. It remains to be seen if he can turn that technical skill into artistic achievement.



Brilliantly said. If you really listen to some music of "recent" times, it can be amazing. Gimme Shelter is a perfect example. Listening for the voice cracks when the lyric is being yelled "rape! murder!".. I could reel off an entire bunch of pink floyd songs that i think are on par with classical music.

I think that the reason there were "more musical genius" around back then is for several reasons - what else was there for an intelligent and interested young person to do then? Let's face it, the most interesting thing around back then was a piano. We have more instruments now, the world is more connected, we can sample each other's music and combine it. There's too many reasons. And you died by the time you were 40, so when else were you gonna do your burst of creativity if not from a young age?

Agreed, for the most part.

He obviously has talent, but to be a great artist one tends to need life experience (often of a darker nature) and that is something he doesn't have.

It should come with time though.

As for why we haven't seen a Mozart, etc. in hundreds of years, maybe its because the great artists of our time aren't composing classical music (which tends to cultivate the misbelief that it is somehow superior). Now, I'm a fan of classical music, but listen to While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Gimme Shelter, or All Along the Watchtower and tell me you don't feel as moved as when listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or The Marriage of Figaro.
>> ^TheFreak:

Bullshit.
Try listening to Jay Greenbergs Symphony no 5. It's horrible.
It's an unorganized cacophany. One moment it sounds every bit like an action movie score then immediately it swings the other way and you'd think you were listening to the music from a 30's cartoon. There's no rhyme or reason behind any of the sounds you hear, no progression, no building of emotion, no story being told, no subtlety or purpose...just great big sloppy swipes of an oversized lyrical paintbrush.
That 60 Minutes segment describes Jay's early and enduring interest in writing music. I believe that's about the only element of the story that's not pure hyperbole. From listening to his music you can tell that he has obviously learned a great deal at a young age about arranging orchestral music. He has knowledge. What he lacks is everything else necessary to create great music.
Boys his age do one thing with great expertise and skill....masturbate. And that's what "Blue Bird" is doing with his music...masturbating all up in your ear holes.
Jay Greenergs interest and dedication to study clasical music composition, as well as the encouragement he's received, has brought him a long way. The real shame is the uncritical feedback he's getting from the people around him. Without anyone to tell him that his music is ham fisted and clumsy there's every likelyhood that his narcisistic self appraisal will lead him to nothing.
Jay Greenberg has demonstrated an impressive ability to learn how to compose in a classical style. It remains to be seen if he can turn that technical skill into artistic achievement.

@Lawdeedaw: if you're trying to convince me that JW are not like other religions, and don't take people's money in exchange for superstition and lies, you're going to have to do better than that. For the little I know of that strain of christianity, it's all about eschatology, in-group vs. out-group, obeying the Watchtower's authority, etc... basically your run-of-the-mill diverging christian sect.

I'm glad you had a good experience with them, doesn't make their ideology any less poison than 99% of religion out there.

OH, AND I FORGOT. THEY DO NOT PASS AROUND A COLLECTION PLATE BEFORE, AFTER, OR DURING SERVICE. They have a small box for those at the back of the room that they mention once after the session. They actually cater to poorer people. And, they build most of their churches and projects themselves. You won't find a mega church in their ranks--although all their craftsmanship is top of the line.


>> ^hpqp:
I think the Buddhism you like is the philosophy. As for the Jehovah's witnesses, ugh. From what I've gleaned off the interwebs (in only a few minutes, so I could be wrong), they seem to wait for you to grow old and senile, then suck you dry (If I were you I'd keep an eye on my mother). Moreover, people who work their whole lives for the "brotherhood" apparantly get no social security, often work voluntarily for no wages, and are left hanging when they get old.
About their publishing market: http://www.freeminds.org/organization/business/how-the-watchtower-was-financed-pre-1990.html
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
But I will upvote this on one condition hp. Religion is far different than organized religion and "other" religions. Buddhisim (My pref) is nowhere near a money pit. I doubt Hinduism is either. Amish? Jehovah's Witnesses? (My mother's prefs and damn close to a loving fellowship. They are pretty meek believe it or not.)
Change the title a bit to reflect that and I will hit that blue arrow faster than you can say "Rich on pastor."
Ps.
I don't believe anyone should have tax deductions...not since money can be "funneled" around.

Jehovah's Witnesses are rather nice. Growing up, when I was dragged along by my mother to 100 different sects, all but one repulsed me. And that was the Witnesses.

The problem for them is that they have no allies whatsoever. They preach true love (Even to their enemies) and staying away from government because it is all corrupt (They even prohibit voting.) So other Christians hate them and make fun of them (And spread lies on the internet about them.)

They don't do holidays or other "fun" stuff. So most common people disdain them.

They are very serious about their religion. Which means non-believers disdain them as cultish.

More things they do/don't believe.

They do believe that the woman is a guidance for her husband and that the husband is head of the house. He should respect, lead, treasure and provide for his wife. They do believe in loving everyone. They take back members as many times as that member shows effort to live a wholesome life. But they won't tolerate drugs, violence, etc... They do believe homosexuality is a sin (Which is about the only thing they are truly ignorant on.)

They don't believe God will burn you in hellfire, or that you are too far to save. They don't promote backstabbing, loose morals or lies (How uncool is that?) They don't yell and speak in tongues, jump around or poke dolls.

In many ways they are a very good religions group hpqp, from those I met. They saved my mother's life when she should have been dead years ago from suffering. They gave her hope. And the fact that they are mocked actually makes me mad. It seems the truer you are to "Christ" the less respected you become. Ironic.

And yes, they are mostly elderly folk. However, a large number are youthful, powerful builds that are carpenters, artisians, etc. And their younger women are very attractive too.

>> ^hpqp:
I think the Buddhism you like is the philosophy. As for the Jehovah's witnesses, ugh. From what I've gleaned off the interwebs (in only a few minutes, so I could be wrong), they seem to wait for you to grow old and senile, then suck you dry (If I were you I'd keep an eye on my mother). Moreover, people who work their whole lives for the "brotherhood" apparantly get no social security, often work voluntarily for no wages, and are left hanging when they get old.
About their publishing market: http://www.freeminds.org/organization/business/how-the-watchtower-was-financed-pre-1990.html
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
But I will upvote this on one condition hp. Religion is far different than organized religion and "other" religions. Buddhisim (My pref) is nowhere near a money pit. I doubt Hinduism is either. Amish? Jehovah's Witnesses? (My mother's prefs and damn close to a loving fellowship. They are pretty meek believe it or not.)
Change the title a bit to reflect that and I will hit that blue arrow faster than you can say "Rich on pastor."
Ps.
I don't believe anyone should have tax deductions...not since money can be "funneled" around.

I think the Buddhism you like is the philosophy. As for the Jehovah's witnesses, ugh. From what I've gleaned off the interwebs (in only a few minutes, so I could be wrong), they seem to wait for you to grow old and senile, then suck you dry (If I were you I'd keep an eye on my mother). Moreover, people who work their whole lives for the "brotherhood" apparantly get no social security, often work voluntarily for no wages, and are left hanging when they get old.

About their publishing market: http://www.freeminds.org/organization/business/how-the-watchtower-was-financed-pre-1990.html

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

But I will upvote this on one condition hp. Religion is far different than organized religion and "other" religions. Buddhisim (My pref) is nowhere near a money pit. I doubt Hinduism is either. Amish? Jehovah's Witnesses? (My mother's prefs and damn close to a loving fellowship. They are pretty meek believe it or not.)
Change the title a bit to reflect that and I will hit that blue arrow faster than you can say "Rich on pastor."
Ps.
I don't believe anyone should have tax deductions...not since money can be "funneled" around.

@dystopianfuturetoday. It's all you've spoken about for two months. And peddling it like some pushy Jehovah's Witness handing out copies of the Watchtower isn't going to get me to read it any faster.

Here's a few tips you can use that may help your sales approach:

1. Try not to talk down to people when pushing your religious memorabilia. Others may misread your self-proclaimed brilliance as the unrestrained ego of a self-centered fuckhead.

2. Pick an appropriate time to work in the sale's pitch. Not every conversation or thread is the right moment to spread the gospel. You have to discriminate so you can seize the right moment to make the convert. Maybe a video on Obama's aggressive warlust isn't the right time to blame the ills of the world on Milton Friedman?

3. Make the conversion process a dialogue, not a monologue. Fun fact about people: they like to feel they're being engaged and not just talked at. Even though you may be right about everything because your bible says you are, you don't want others to think you're just a prickish, arrogant, insufferable, egomaniacal, self-important cocksucker who enjoys attacking those who challenge your unshakable, inerrant belief system.

KnivesOut?

Ah - my mistake. It was a reference to your comment, BRP.

What they did was to ask an honest question: WHY? it wasnt a pleading whimpering "ooh please dont attack our precious,frail belief/disbelief!" Quite the contrary, they wanted him to elaborate and explain why.

No - I understood quite clearly what they were saying. Their central argument was that it is wrong to impute the harshest condemnation possible on a person when you know next to nothing about them. In other words - exactly what I said... "why are you thinking bad things about us just because we believe something you don't?"

Like your rather arrogant claim that Mark, surely a dedicated Christian if there ever was one, had no idea what "true faith" was, and that you could tell us.

Christ's message in the New Testament is not complicated - and it is wholly void of instances where he marched up to someone he didn't know and told them they were eternally condemned. True Christianity (faith) does not involve such things. The guy was out of line, and out of step with true faith. That's a fact.

Its all based on arbitrary interpretations of mistranslated text, and a good chunk of wishful thinking. Your true faith is probably blasphemy to mark, who knows?

Well - I don't (and didn't) presume to say that I had all the answers. I confined my comments about the caller & hosts to the topic at hand. In the end, I can think of no instances where Christ would have done what the caller did. It is far more likely he would have dropped a fantastic parable that encouraged repentance and good deeds in opposition to just relexively following dogma. In fact the parable of the watchtower comes to mind.

Lastly, Please dont make the false comparison suggesting MSNBC is the "FOX news of the left". Its not. Its biased as hell, but its nothing like fox. It doesnt pretend to be balanced, it doesnt systematically lie and distort and its hosts are not insane conspiracy nuts. Compared to FOX, MSNBC is actually fair and balanced.

Totally disagree. MSNBC & Fox are peas in a pod, just on opposite sides of the pod. MSNBC doesn't lie & distort and it's hosts aren't insane? No offense, but only a person who had been braised for decades in the bile of liberal bias could possibly think that.

Et tú, NicoleBee!?

In reply to this comment by NicoleBee:
^I never got that either. I didn't find the themes of the ending particularily surprising or out of place at all. Loves me some BSG - glad I finally went through the series.

There was plenty of supernatural hints, but they kept it ambiguous enough that it made sense. The end betrays that completely. The constant involvement of prophecies, Baltar as Jesus was nicely tied up to be a massive hoax, and that would have made sense, instead it doesn't!

Raaaaaage! *smacks head on the table*

>> ^EDD:
>> ^dag:
Makes me miss BSG- but then makes me remember the betrayal of the creators at the ending. Deus ex machina FTL.
(no, this nerd has not forgiven)

dag, if the ending was the first time you noticed there was a teensy bit of supernatural and the 'divine' involved in the story, you might as well have not been watching at all. This nerd is at a loss as to why all the numerous allusions about the constant involvement of a god or gods in human and cylon plights were OK for you and others (gwiz among them, prominently) until the time came for the story to end. Then it's deus ex machina all of a sudden.

>> ^dag:
Makes me miss BSG- but then makes me remember the betrayal of the creators at the ending. Deus ex machina FTL.
(no, this nerd has not forgiven)


dag, if the ending was the first time you noticed there was a teensy bit of supernatural and the 'divine' involved in the story, you might as well have not been watching at all. This nerd is at a loss as to why all the numerous allusions about the constant involvement of a god or gods in human and cylon plights were OK for you and others (gwiz among them, prominently) until the time came for the story to end. Then it's deus ex machina all of a sudden.

Google-fu suggests there are no lyrics for this puppy on the intertubes. This is what I've cobbled together so far. It'd be cool if you lot (i.e., my adoring public) weighed in with your own comments as to what certain words or phrases might be, since as you'll see there's plenty of holes left when the song goes fast:


I've been workin' on a watchtower
Been haulin' up that molten lead
[Blue] fingernails 'n bleedin' gums for me

I've lost my hair and I've lost it all
Watchin' those lead drops fall
No bigger paycheques and some ... you see

Twelve toxic years in this bump and grind
The seventy-five feet I leave behind
Cursin' dreams and lead and ... and ...

If it wasn't me, it'd be my son
If it wasn't him, it'd be someone
His life wouldn't be any brighter than mine

Been working on a shot tower
Been haulin' up that molten lead
...

[breakdown!]

Twelve years ... from Griffintown
... me all around
... put me down

Tried to talk...

Seventy-five plus...
...
... bring me down

Brother was a constable, he ... he was a priest

My sister was conscripted for

...

Been working on a watchtower
Been haulin' up that molten lead
It's blue fingernails and bleedin' gums for me

Let's dance with the angel of death on this earth
Let's dance ...
Let's dance ...
Let's drink to the boys that we all left behind
Let's raise another bucket of death up the vertical line

... heard a sound

... near the hot-dog stand

... clean up all that mess

No sovereignty or work for you this year

... rushin' home

Let's dance with the angel of death on this earth
Let's dance...
Let's dance...
Let's drink to the boys that we all left behind
Let's raise another bucket of death up the vertical line

Let's dance, let's dance, let's drink
Let's raise another bucket of death up the vertical line

... from Montreal, I've never seen those lead drops fall
But it's blue fingernails and bleedin' gums for me

all in all it was alright.......his all along the watchtower solo made me wanna vomit though