Just wrong huh, Ok then this is gonna be fun.

Firstly I was answering the question posed by Russell Brand "Is Fox News more dangerous than ISIS?" Which any reasonable person, especially those who have had a family member blown away in Iraq recently can say NO They are NOT.

Second Point, was it Fox that was convincing the American Public of WMDs and warmongering, or was it everyone? There wasn't a channel you could find that wasn't fully behind the government because that is what they do. In this area Fox isn't special, you could've turned on CNN and MSNBC at anytime and seen a 95% to 5% reporting in for the war and against.

Also the fact that the public was much of a factor in the run up to war, not as much as you'd think. There was simply a lot of ambivalence but support for our troops. Due to the fact that we have an all volunteer mercenary force it's just a lot easier to ignore that Johnny is being marched off to war. It's not right, it's just how it is.

In conclusion, Fox, the News Network isn't worse than ISIS. They're just not, end of.

EDIT: Also it doesn't seem like I should have to point this out to people but I guess I do. Russell Brand is a funny comedian, he is not fucking Noam Chomsky. He isn't around to provide cogent analysis and if I met him I would agree with some things he says and destroy him on his ridiculous hyperbole. He's not meant to report to us in an honest way, that's not what he does that's not what he's known for. Look for people like this to inject insight into the discussion and you get exactly what you deserve.

[Hook]
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over (bend over)
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over (bend over)
Party’s over, it ain’t over
Try to make a bad memory over and over
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over (bend over)
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over (bend over)
Party’s over, it ain’t over
Care to find a single piece of me, game over
Hangover
Hangover
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over (bend over)
Hangover, hangover, hangover, hangover-over-over
Care to find a single piece of me, game over

[Verse 1: Snoop Dogg]
Drink ‘till you’re drunk
Smoke like a broke stove
Don’t quit, take flight
I can’t remember last night
It’s aight, this the life of a superstar
Sci-fi with that boy trooping hard, couping cars
Snoop be hard in the paint
Drink another cup until I fall flat
All lead and then some
1-5-1, done dilly
Really for sure that
I’m throw back intoxicated
Change over, game over, hangover, faded
Body shed, miss

[Verse 2: PSY]
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe catch a lady by the toe

[Pre-hook]
(Take a shot!)
Drink it up and get sick
Bottom’s up, get wasted
Pour it up, drink it up, live it up, give it up
Oh my God, dammit, there’s the fucking limit
Pour it up, drink it up, live it up, give it up

But I can’t stop
Making bottles pop until the wheels fall off

And I can't quit
I wake up in the morning do the same shit
Wake up in the morning do the same shit

[Hook]

[Bridge: Snoop Dogg]
Waking and baking, shaking the flees
Caking and baking, raking the cheese
Early in the morning in the bathroom on my knees
Tipping and dripping, flipping the flow
Whipping and dripping a drink on the floor
This is the only way that I was taught a long time ago
Seoul, Korea, you’ll see a G-a like me-a
Never would there ever be another like he-a
G-A-N-G-S-T-A, nothing left to say
I done smoked my whole day

[Verse 3: Psy]

[Pre-hook] + [Hook]

[Bridge]

[Hook] + [Pre-hook] + [Hook]

"I know shit is very complicated and the answers aren't easy, but we can EASILY do better than this."

Sigh.

And who, now, tell me, are the "good guys" in Syria? We can't even get aid into the country; when we do, where is it going? Is it being diverted? Into whose hands? Is it feeding the troops, on either or both sides, who, rejuvenated by supplies, rally to fight and make it worse for everyone else?

The collapse of the Cold War has let the repressed sectarian and religious hatreds of a hundred years or more (the Serbians still fixate on a glorious defeat that happened in 1389...I'm not kidding) boil over across the planet...

This and the Norwegian bus stop advertisement for Syrian aid are amazing pieces---and I applaud them...

Two random factoids I can't quite resolve in my head:
1) American's think we spend 25% of our national budget on foreign; we actually spend somewhere between 1.5% and under 1 % depending on how you include certain payments (the Nordic countries embarrass us by spending 2-3X as much as us as percentage of GDP)...and

2) It is pretty much a demonstrable fact that we are now living in the most peaceful time in human history. How horrifying it must have been to live in any other time---
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence

sanctions could only bring a new cold war like state of affairs, not a resolution of this crisis. I believe Putin won't recall troops from Crimea until he plays that card at the negotiating table, probably demanding Ukraine abstains itself from any alliance with NATO or some shit like that ...

Yeah and I agree that's how to keep it in the news and be responsible with the information. I'm saying that I don't give a shit anymore, I'm tired and cranky and I want all the information dumped, like a nuclear fucking bomb. I want everyone in government to get scared enough of their population that they barricade themselves and lets have a decade of fucking War trying to lynch every one of those mother fuckers.

I'm sick of it, release all the spys names all over the world, all the troops positions. Fuck them, fuck everyone, let's finish this shit.

The ostensible use, for all armies, is smoke generation for obscuring a target/concealing your own troops from folks not using advanced technology to look through your screen.

But.
The WP's antipersonnel capability is always there too.

Spoiler, Hitchens 'wins' the debate. I can't honestly say I've watched or listened to a debate between him and anyone were that did not seem to be the case. As often is the case though too, his grandest victory is understated, brief and easily overlooked.

Ritter thumps hard on the absence of WMD in Iraq to condemn the invasion, which on it's surface seems a strong argument. Hitchens casually references an unwillingness to be lectured on WMD's by those who cautioned against invasion for fear that Saddam would use those WMD on US troops. Scott Ritter went on Crossfire before the invasion to state that Saddam could easily reconstitute his chemical weapons and invading was too risky.

Wow, she really had an "adventurous youth".

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Support-The-Troops

Support The Troops! has been added as a related post - related requested by ChaosEngine.

No way-That story made international news and a whole lotta folks lost face-That was rarity of justice. For every one that gets caught, as the saying goes...

The stories of the invading Japanese army's machine-gun barrels distorting from the heat as they tried to gain an advantage over the advancing Chinese troops and they, "Just kept coming?"
There's your analogous scenario.

ok.
i am reading your response.
and trying to follow your logic..
it is..confusing.
i do not mean that in a critical way.it literally is confusing.

so let me understand this.
you think that because people pointing out the hypocrisy on american foreign policy somehow translates to a moral relativism in regards to assad?
that one is more evil than the other?
and to point to one means to ignore the other?

ok.
which one is MORE evil:
1.the assad regime which has been brutal on its own citizens.beheadings,executions in the street.the people are in a constant state of fear.
this is a common tactic for brutal dictators.fear and intimidation and when then start getting out of control? killings and maimings.of the public kind.
assad has been on the human rights watch for decades.
he is a monster.
or.
2.america and britain have been sending weapons and training a weak rebel force (for the past few years btw).after the outbreak of violence of the arab spring and assads decending hammer of escalating violence the rebels find their ranks being filled by alqeada,muslim brotherhood and other radical muslim factions.
which has the culminative effect of not only creating the civil war but prolonging it.
death tolls of innocents rising.
displaced syrians in the millions.

which of these two are "more" evil?
both caused death.
both caused suffering.
or do you think training and arming rebel factions which only serves to prolong the conflict less evil?

while evil is an arbitrary and subjective word the answer is BOTH are evil.
on a basic and human level BOTH bear responsibility.

let us continue.

now america has had a non-interventionism policy so far.just supplying training and weapons and prolonging the civil war and henceforth:the violence,death,maiming and suffering.

then two things quietly happened.
syria russia and china (iran as well) began talks to drop the petrodollar AND assad refusing a natural gas pipeline through syria (probably in order to not piss off russia).

when you realize that americas currency is almost solely propped up by the petrodollar,the current white house rhetoric starts to make more sense.

this is why evidence on who is responsible for the chemical attacks is important because the united states government used THAT as its reason for NOT entering the conflict (even though it already was involved,but not directly).the united states didnt want to get directly involved.
until the pipeline and petrodollar talks started to surface.

and then as if by magic.
a chemical attack is executed.
now assads army was winning,on all fronts.
why would he risk international intervention if he was winning?
now i am not saying that dictators and tyrants dont do dumb things,but that is dumb on an epic level.
doesnt make sense.
doesnt add up.

so the whole drumbeats for war now.
which were non-existent a month ago...
are all about "humanitarian" and "human rights" and a new "axis of evil".

bullshit.plain and simple.

this is about oil.
about the petrodollar.
this is about big business.

bryzenscki called this 20 yrs ago in his book "the grand chessboard"

and that is my counter argument.
and by your last post on my page i think you agree in some fashion.

now,
let us discuss your "final solution".
oh my friend.you accused so many of being naive.
reading your conclusion i can only shake my head.
not that i dont appreciate your time or that i dont see maybe why you feel that way.
i just dont think you grasp the enormity of it and have listened to one too many of the uber-rights "paper tiger" argument.

if we choose the path you think is the best to put assad on his heels.
america launches a limited strike on assad forces.
and lets say those strategic targets are 100% incapacitated (unlikely,but this is hypothetical).
what then?
have you considered what the reaction of russia,china,iran,saudi arabia, might be?
because according to international LAW,without a united nations concensus.russia and china AND iran would have the right to step in,set up shop and tell you to go fuck yourself.they would dare you to cross that line.
and what then?
do you cross it? and under what grounds?
you have (and when i say YOU i mean america) already disregarded every single policy put forth in regards to international law.the irony is the you (america) were vital in the creation of those very laws.(we rocked that WW2 shit son).

so pop quiz jack.what do you do?
do you really think you can ignore russia and china?ignore the international community?
do you really think the american government gives two shits about people dying in another country?
(checks long list of historical precedent)
not..one..bit.

here are the simple facts.
YOU are a compassionate human being who is outraged over the suffering and execution of innocent people.
YOU.
and i and pretty much everybody with a soul and a heart.
but YOUR argument is coming from that outrage.and man do i wish i was your age again.
god i admire you for this alone.
but the simple,hard and ugly fact is:
this country is about its own business of empire.
they could not give a fuck who is dying or being oppressed,tortured or enslaved.
i will be happy to provide the links but please dont ask...i dont wish to see your heart break anymore than it already has.
you and i live under the banner of an empire.this is fact.
this empire only cares about its own interests.

so let us talk about the very thing that is the emotional heart of the matter shall we?
the syrian people.
how do we alleviate their suffering?
how do we quell the tidal wave of dying?

a limited strike on strategic targets would help the innocents how exactly?
by bombing them?this is your logic?
or is "collateral damage" acceptable? and if so..how much?
do you realize that there are no actual 'strategic targets".assads troops are embedded just as much as the rebels are.
so..where do you hit for maximum effect?
and how many innocent deaths are acceptable?
and if the goal is to weaken assads forces,to level the playing field,wouldnt this translate to an even MORE prolonged conflict?
and wouldnt that equal even MORE innocent people dying?

this scenario is WITHOUT russia,china or iran intervening!

you are killing more and more people that i thought you wanted to save!
what are you doing man? are you crazy!

so i ask you.
what are your goals?
is it revenge?
is it regime change?
do you wish to punish assad?

then assasination is your only true option that will get the results you want and save innocent lives.

in my opinion anyways.

this is why i choose the non-intervention or the negotiation route.
yes..there will still be violence but only to a point.
when negotiations begin there is always a cease fire.
in that single move we stopped the violence.
this will also have the effect of bringing other international players to the table and much needed food,supplies and medical for the syrian people.

all kinds of goodies for the syrian people who are in such desperate need of help.
wanna go with me? ill volunteer with ya!

so which path is better for the syrian people?
a limited strike which at the very least will prolong this vicious civil war.
or negotiations which will bring a cease fire,food,water,medical help,blankets,clothes and smiles and hugs for everyone!

are ya starting to get the picture?

i have lived on three continents.
met and lived with so many interesting and amazing people.
learned about so much and was graced and touched in ways that are still incredible for me to explain.
and you have got to be the most stubborn mule i have ever met...ever.

but kid.you got some serious heart.
so you stay awesome.
namaste.

*edit-it appears assad may be the culprit.syria just accepted russias offer to impound the chemical weapons.so we know they have them.lets see what the US does.
i still think you are going to get your wish for military action.so dont be getting all depressed on me now.

we're definitely not shrinking the military. It's just that a lot of the money gets shunted over to the private contractors. more than what goes to the troops themselves probably. The contractors get to buy homes in Dubai, while the troops themselves are stuck in the trenches.

Here's the long-list from a famous -hacked-to-bits and otherwise forgotten document's grievance rider which seems a poignantly appropriate reason enough to want to shove a vote up someone's ass and rotate it:

Of King George:

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Someone needs perhaps to revise the list and start hoarding ammunition and conscripting, because methinks the "vote" be fast-resembling, fuck-all. I don't vote and I am damn sure not going to be quiet any time soon...Average Joe and Jane voters have already effectively been "opted out."

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Great post - good discussion.

Maybe they also hate us for our hypocrisy. Supporting autocratic leaders like Saddam and Mubarak with money and weapons - while spouting the virtues of democracy. That certainly bugs the shit out of me.

George Washington, Woodrow Wilson and Ron Paul would like to see the US disentagle from foreign entanglements - close bases, pull back troops, stop military support.

At first, I say Yes! Then I think about it ... Nature abhors a vacuum. In a unipolar world, what happens when the pole removes itself from the game?