>> ^Shepppard:

>> ^blankfist:
So the argument is: "If he had a gun the assailants could've gotten their hands on it."
My response: "If cops had guns the assailants could get their hands on it."
See how dumb that sounds?

Yeah, because it's not like cops have gone through a rigorous training regime for things like handling their weapons.
No, no you're totally right, guy who bought a gun and went to the shooting range twice = Cop.


So, are you now arguing that Constitutional rights to bear arms should only be honored and given to those with state and federal mandated training? Ridiculous. Anyhow, that's not what I was commenting on.

Anti-gun nuts always point out extreme examples of where guns could be dangerous under certain and specific circumstances. They speak with unfounded and baseless certainty that the criminals would be capable of wrestling the gun from the armed victim.

Their hypothesis of danger assumes the criminals are A) confident enough to attempt a retrieval of a weapon from someone's possession and B) extremely capable with a firearm, and that the victim is C) not capable with the firearm and D) not confident and able to command the situation with a firearm in his possession. It's too extreme and far-fetched a set of criteria to be plausible. That's what I was commenting on.

>> ^Shepppard:

>> ^blankfist:
So the argument is: "If he had a gun the assailants could've gotten their hands on it."
My response: "If cops had guns the assailants could get their hands on it."
See how dumb that sounds?

Yeah, because it's not like cops have gone through a rigorous training regime for things like handling their weapons.
No, no you're totally right, guy who bought a gun and went to the shooting range twice = Cop.


I guess Shepppard indirectly answered your question.

>> ^blankfist:

So the argument is: "If he had a gun the assailants could've gotten their hands on it."
My response: "If cops had guns the assailants could get their hands on it."
See how dumb that sounds?


Yeah, because it's not like cops have gone through a rigorous training regime for things like handling their weapons.

No, no you're totally right, guy who bought a gun and went to the shooting range twice = Cop.

I think that everyone would be surprised just how easy it is to become an Armed Security Officer (guard). 40 hour training which includes handgun qualification and shotgun qualification. I've seen a few of these classes, and they are pretty strict, but that is given the place that is providing the training. Zero Tolerance for itchy trigger fingers, and violating the fire line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_guard

Pennsylvania No licensing requirements to be an unarmed security guard. However, armed security guards must undergo and successfully complete a 40 hour training course (including shooting range time) in order to be certified to carry weapons and on watch while on duty under the Lethal Weapons Training Act (commonly referred to as Act 235 certification). Certification involves qualifying on a pistol range, with firing of 50 rounds of .38 cal. ammo. You are also required to qualify on a shotgun. The certification is good for five years at which time an eight hour refresher course must be taken or the certification is revoked.[28]

I'm with overcast on this one a bit. It's perfectly legal to carry a camera around, film whatever and to open carry a gun (in that state). Just because you *can* doesn't mean you necessarily *should*.
Any cop on any beat in any state with any sense of self preservation and duty to protect the people is going to take notice and be suspicious of some dude walking around with a gun in open carry, whether its legal to do so or not. If he had an obvious purpose for the gun such as being at a gun show or near a shooting range or what have you, fine. Ready answer at hand. but he's in a rural area and from the cops point of view is a random person carrying a firearm with apparently no obvious reason for doing so.
Agreed the cop was a bit of a dick and lied about certain things but he was probably just about as nervous as the camera guy sounds, if anything he has a right be be more nervous from some random dude walking around with a gun. He may not have anything solid to make an arrest or anything serious but it IS his job to make sure this wasn't some nutjob walking around that might pull out the gun and start randomly shooting people the second he's out of sight.

I have not seen anny evidence that says owning a gun makes you safer.

I dont have a problem with people owning sawds hunting rifals / guns, but I think if you are cought in the street or public place with one they should be confiscated and you should have to pay a huge fine. unless its in a case and is not laoded / bing transported to go hunting / to shooting range.


this whole debarcale just advertises to the rest of the world and the non stupid Americans how retarded allot of amerce is.

Amerce is so rotten brainwashed from within its ridiculous ,

How could they allow a verified lunatic to enter a shooting range? Jesus Frikkin' christ!

@ dcmisha

I totally agree after looking at the video, he clearly brought his left hand in, which is also a shooting stance, but he does appear to jerk the slide. THe problem is the sound is probably not very well sync'd.

The only possible explanation is that he owns some personal gun he goes to the shooting range with and is all gangster with. I can't imagine on the job he ever EVER did anything involving this kind of slide cocking a semi-automatic. I don't understand why you would need to chamber a round??!! was his life threatened? So even if it was accidental discharge, he still took out his gun and then tried to make sure it was loaded. And then he did holster it right away which is even more a sign of guilt.

What I want to know... Why didn't any of the other cops arrest this Mehserle? I would have. Definately taken his gun away from the moron. Why won't a single cop be a decent human being and arrest a murderer, even if it was accidental.

The game was overall pretty good, but my huge issue with it was that it was so damn buggy.

I broke a door on a house I didn't own in bowerstone by accident, after which I paid for, but before the new front door went up, I realised there was an ally in the back and my dog was barking like mad for there being treasure. I couldn't open the door, only knock on it, so I went out and bartended for an hour to get the funds to buy said house, and once I did, not only did it still not open, the front door never actually came back.

My furniture seller ran out of furniture to sell me, so I had one really nice house and couldn't actually upgrade the rest of them.

The main reason for having a Kid is to hear what he says and be "Overjoyed" when you return home, but when I first met mine, I tried to take him to his favourite place (Temple of light) and on the way there he stopped following me, and now he only stays in town, and never moves or says anything.

My mage got stuck because I had to get his renown up in westcliff, so I played the lute to get people around me and showed off a trophy a couple times, and then decided to go to the Westcliff shooting range. My "Hold A to accept" wouldn't go through, the circle would just fill and nothing would happen. I couldn't move after that, and I couldn't do any emotes. I tried resetting and fast travelling, but nothing works. He's now immobile, can't move, can't attack, nothing.

Also, every once in a while my dog (Who's supposed to be a golden lab) turns blue around his stomache/back but not legs feet or tail.

those are just the first few on a longer list, but Those just killed the game for me, I really expect that when a game that's been in production this long, and been hyped up this much will work properly.

There's nothing really bad about that. Hell, you were watching the government essentially waltzing into people's houses or holding them at gunpoint to take their property. That's pretty powerful stuff and it made me furious when I saw it. I think it is very important though how this was quickly resolved legally, and even followed up later with the Supreme Court overturning the DC gun ban which will make it even more difficult for this type of behavior to occur in the future. Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to own a gun because of this. There *is* something wrong with owning one without knowing how to use it responsibly in my opinion. If you're serious about wanting a gun, and since you said you have never held one before in your life, looking into shooting ranges in your area that let you do some target practice and offer some safety lessons is a good place to start.

In reply to this comment by shuac:
You make good points, Lurch, and I hope you're right.

My original comment (the "which is worse" thing) was less about supporting a ban/tax and more about asking the OP where he stands: subverting the constitution, about which Bush feels he is beyond reproach, or legislating a ban or tax on guns, thus keeping it civil, legal, and most importantly allowing for it to be blocked, civilly and legally. It's a false choice, yes, but then...so is our presidential election. I'm kidding. Sort of.

Jokes aside, watching those vids of New Orleans cops taking guns away from citizens kind of made me want to get a gun. Is that bad?

I think this is a dupe. At the very least, I know several of the individual clips are here (shooting range with 50 cal, girl getting smacked in the head), though that wouldn't count unless they are all here, which they might be. Anyone care to hunt it/them down?

A counter argument can be made that lawful possession of firearms can allow people to commit heinous acts in the first place. The VA killer legally attained his glock, so did the shooter at Dawsons College in Montreal, many crimes committed are committed using guns one legally possesses.

I mean you ever been to the hood? Gun store, liquor store, gun store, liquor store. Gun possession in the ghetto is the reality of the life there, due to social and economic circumstances, anyone saying otherwise should take a drive to Imperial courts in LA.

With regards to a armed militia watching against a unlawful overtake of the government I would like to hear one example when this actually happened? I don't see the Michigan Militia fighting against the tyranny of Bush.

I doubt VA would have been better with more people with guns, young people are hormonal and unstable as it is. I mean Gunrock can say that because well he was in a war, he knowns about watching background, crossfire, proper aim and so on. Most kids, they wouldn't put in the time for that, and would rather go to the shooting range to pop guns like they were gangsta. I think we would alot of people shooting each other and no the shooter.

I still don't understand why people want to possess fully automatic military grade rifles for personal use?

Living in the UK, I have wondered if I might own a gun or 2 if I lived in the US. Here, i have no right to do so. There, I would. Here, I feel no need (but have still used them, out hunting with shotguns, or playing with powerful air rifles when growing up (i was a kid. felt powerful to me, and i respected them), or on a shooting range). I possibly would.

Which is all an aside to saying I concur with the above.

Life is about context. peoples contexts are different. The context of death is for respect.

The scary thing is there are summer camps kind of like this. When I was 7 or 8, I went to the John Birch Society summer camp in North Carolina, which is kind of amusing considering I turned out agnostic and slightly left of center. In case you don't know what JBS is, they're very libertarian/right and religious. There were bible studies and prayer meetings almost every day along with extremely pro-America radically patriotic sessions talking about how the country needs to go back to Revolutionary War ideals. Every other day or so we'd go out to shooting ranges too and fire everything from small caliber handguns to fully automatic assault rifles.

I was 7 years old and I vividly recall firing a .22 Luger handgun, .22 bolt-action rifle, 9mm handgun, .45, and a semi-automatic Kalashnikov. It was a lot like what they show in this video here. They'd even prompt us by saying "Imagine it's Castro out there!" or some other leftist figure from history.

I only went for one summer. I actually quite enjoyed learning how to properly and safely use a firearm and some of the principles of 2nd amendment protections and SAFETY with guns has stuck with me. The rest was far too radical for me, it was like a survivalist militia training camp.

Statistically, this guy is very likely to get hit at a shooting range.