That's true for a post industrial POV.
When machines already exist, and you just need energy to get things moving.

The energetic concerns of bygone eras were :
Whale oil, and later kerosene. For lighting. (note: back then, a day's work would only buy minutes of light)
Firewood, and later coal. For heating.
Manpower was the only energy user when it came to food production.

Early machines such as the combine were horse drawn, and did not need an energy architecture in place. (ignoring "food" as an energy)

Later machines used steam power, and hence could piggy back on the already existing wood/coal energy architecture (in turn stimulating it to grow larger).

Once the machinery industry was established, and the revenue generation was in place, it was possible to invest in improvements and alternative energies - ultimately leading up to oil burning machinery being common.

In any case, historically, industrialization drove the energy industry. (As it should, why have an industry to produce a product (energy) that isn't needed?)
And industrialization depended on a conducive society. A place where an inventor could own his invention, and could sell it, allowing things that were no more than ideas or garage trinkets to transition into products - which in turn place demand on other resources such as [forms of] energy.

In the past, there was nothing, so everything was build from the ground up. Industries grew out of nothing, they weren't established up front.
Modern times are different, where you have investment capital from entities who's entire existence revolves around investing, and you can front the establishment of an industry in the calculated hope of future demand.
(Granted, lords/aristocrats had a hand in industrial investment. Just not the kind or scale that you can see today.)

What you say applies a bit later, when industrialization was already well under way. Like when Thomas Edison used investment capital to fund power plants and an electrical network, in order to power the first [practical, but not 'first'] light bulb in New York.

-scheherazade

Now I'm bored.

The universe does revolve around me!

On rewatching I think there is a simpler way to state my point. The dillema as outlined is aerial bombings 'outside a battlefield'. If it the region were declared a battlefield, bombing the enemy would be considered part of prosecuting a war and not require individual warrants issued from a court for each combatant identified and targeted.

For all intents and purposes, places like tribal Pakistan and Yemen ARE open battlefields, but it's not considered polite to the local leadership to say that or make that declaration. To me it seems a lot of the issue revolves entirely around this compromise where the Pakistani military agrees to let us operate as though it is an open battlefield in an all out war, just as long as officially and publicly we never call it that. I agree the compromise is stupid, but I disagree that with choosing to no longer treat the region as a battlefied, I prefer openly calling it what it is and embrace that yes, we absolutely are waging acts of war against these militants and you can pick which side you want to be on in the fight.

What's I was more surprised by was that 33% of Europeans didn't know the earth revolved around the sun. Just wow.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth/

And people wonder how 25% of Americans still think the sun revolves around the earth. Ah yes, herein lies the explanation. Such genuine, complete, and absolute TERROR at the idea of anything even approaching critical thought that it means even attempting to use rationality on any subject is taboo. It's sad. More than that it's terrifying because those 25% (and these people) get to help decide on the fate of so much that is important through voting. Or at least in theory they do. *sigh*

Our justice system is fucked. Before it SCREWED me and dropped the charges, I was a relatively harmless person. Time served HAH. That's the joke that we call justice.

Lock you up with hardened criminals and then put you on a list. My god. It's horrifying. Absolute tyranny to truth and justice. It's all wealth control. We live in a money machine and when we cease to be profitable, we are driven to depression and addiction, beaten, and then put through the revolving door of incarceration.

My HATRED for this system is unending.

Has it EVER been right? I have my doubts. I believe this world to be a sham.

Lead Launcher
Palm Cannon
Thumb Buster (.45 revolver)
Gut Cutter
Blue-steel hole-filler

This is the most cartoonish gun I've ever seen.
I want a revolver in that caliber.

If i'm mistaken, The two in power have made it so that there is no possibility to have a third party in the USA. Unless majority of people is behind this third party, it will not gain those privileges that are granted in almost every other democratic country to all parties. As it is now, you are forced to campaign without any visibility and you are not allowed to enter debates.

IMHO, it is not democratic if you have only two options. Yea, it beats the dreaded one-option million-to-one but it's still just one step towards democratia. Without a third option what you see in the USA is exactly what was to be expected.

With three or more parties, the changes of reaching optimal solutions increase and the changes of corruption decreases. With two, it seems that corruption is as high as it would be with one-party systems.

Solutions: make campaigns funded from the public funds and outlaw any kind of private funding. Make this option available to ALL parties and give all of them equal chances. Dismantle "lobbyism" and stop revolving door completely.

I'm glad we can all get so wrapped up in this one case of violence and continue to ignore the day after day violence, intimidation, and gang warfare that happens every day, all day, throughout America.

It is summer now. That means the local ER is full of people who have been beaten, stabbed, or shot. Some are gang members. Others live on one gang's block, so when they cross another gang's block they will be beaten or shot simply by association. This continues during the school year when kids who walk to their underfunded schools are scared to cross rival gang's turf even though they are not in a gang.

I know only by proxy via my fiance, who is a resident at the county hospital, just how prevalent this kind of violence is.

Then you hear on NPR that kids as early as nine years old are "saving" to buy their first revolver for as little as $25 dollars on the street.

Still, lets ignore all that and focus on one case in Florida with facts that remain unclear...

TYT is a complete waste of time. Even when they are more or less right in principle their reasoning, eloquence, and tone leave much to be desired.

Revenge Synonyms;
noun. vengeance - retaliation - retribution - reprisal
verb. avenge - retaliate - wreak - requite - pay back

Your "arguments" revolve around semantics, and glib statements.These, my friend, are not an arguments at all. I have defended my position, whereas you have nothing to offer in serious defense of yours. At best your "views" are fluffy, idealistic nonsense, which only reflect how you think justice would be best served. Get into the real world. You could start by asking the victims of serious crime whether they are happy that the criminal who killed a loved one will be allowed back into society. Get some coherent, rational, factual information about peoples views on crime and punishment, and then try and debate. In the mean time, stop wasting my time with any more puerile comments (you can use your dictionary to look up puerile).

@bareboards2
my comment was not really directed at you my dear.i painted my premise with a broad brush that expanded from this thread and addressed something i have found to be more and more practiced on the sift.

you posted your reasons why you used the ignore.
to get rid of the "rabble" and make it easier to read posts you enjoy.
now if that means posts that you agree with or dont find offensive ..well..that is kind of my point.

and you are so right.we all have a right to our opinion and in my opinion to sequester posts you disagree or find offensive is intellectually weak.

@VoodooV you literally just made my entire point by your post and i dont know if that was on purpose or by freak accident.

while i agree with your assertion that @shinyblurry tends to wade in the copy/paste waters and he dwells in circular logic land.you have to give the boy props for lending a perspective of a christian fundamentalist on a mainly secular left site.

that boy can rile you all up like a stick to a hornets nest.which is endless entertainment for me.

but lets change that paradigm shall we?
why dont you head down to your nearest baptist church and hand out fliers concerning evolution to the congregation and tell them god doesnt exist.

then maybe you would know what it feels like to get blasted by all sides at once.while shiny lacks in clear debate skills.you gotta admire his courage.

as for @chingalera seeking attention.
i dunno.
maybe you are right.
but the real question is how did you come to that conclusion?
by what means did you discern his intentions?motivations?
crystal ball? black magic? a little fairy come by and whisper in your ear?

no.
you used your OWN subjective understanding.your OWN experiences to presume the motivations of another sifter.
thats weak sauce and you better than that.

and then..finally..you ask for a daddy to come in straighten out the people who you:disagree with.argue in a way you dont find constructive (but may be they do).derail threads that maybe you would have enjoyed more if those pesky kids hadnt messed everything up.

the world dont revolve around you so get over yourself man.for fuck sakes!

i was sincere when i said i love your commentary because i truly do.
smart,witty and you usually have something to say.i ADORE your commentary but you are being self righteous on this thread.

i did something very similar last week to @renatojj and he called me out.he was right and i was wrong.

stop trying to impose your ideals of what constructive participation is based solely on your own and limited understanding.
this is not your sift but rather OURS and things will become chaotic at times.

the sift is organic.
allow it to metamorph into whatever it will become.
we do not need a big daddy to direct where it goes and thats the beauty of this site.

the irony in all this exchange between you and i is that i feel you have something to say and have always admired that about you.
allow other people to have their say as well.

While it's interesting that there's a TV spinoff revolving around SHIELD, one thing that TV execs have been known to do is make series that drag on. Stuff like this needs to be story driven... and there needs to be a conclusive end when the season or series is up.

Definitely something to watch for. But not something to keep watching if it goes beyond 2 seasons or 26 episodes.

I thought the worst was that Smallville episode where they had entire episode plot revolve around kryptonite stride gum

What's hilarious is that they seem to think we don't notice it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9tniqYCJj8

*discard per DMCA - copyright infringement reported by Revolver FIlms Limited