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The Israel-Palestine conflict: a brief, simple history

newtboy says...

Um...no
The Jews that invaded Palestine were illegitimate because they were illegal immigrants invading what was essentially a British 'colony'.
That has nothing to do with the fact that the USA didn't take as many as we might have. Those are two separate wrongs.
Palestine was not invaded because it was 'safer'..it was invaded because they wanted to own it. If it was about safety, they would have illegally immigrated to the multiple neighboring countries, not one single place all the way across Europe....kind of like the Syrian refugees are doing. If the Syrians all went to Belgium, installed their own laws and government supplanting the local Belgians', made the Belgians non-citizens, took their lands and properties, pushed them into one small corner ghetto, then complained about how bad the Belgians are...we would laugh at their faces as we blasted the shit out of them...why did we support Jews doing the EXACT same thing without a gun forcing (edit: most of) them out of their homes like the Syrians had?
Palestine did NOT have a SIZEABLE Jewish population, it was close to 5% before the invasion. It also wasn't closer by far than any other country in Europe. It only made perfect sense because their religious leaders told them to go there and 'take back their ancestral homeland'.

I never said those in the 40's were not that desperate, nor did I ever suggest we 'change history'. You need a reading comprehension refresher. I said those illegally invading in the 30's had little to flee (unless you are saying they had a time machine and KNEW what was coming). I also say those in the 40's after the war and all those coming after that had NOTHING to flee.

The difference being that the Arabs had been there for centuries, living peacefully with a small Jewish population as part of their 'country', yes, peacefully. It wasn't until the Brits ignored their own immigration laws and allowed the Jews to invade by the thousands that conflict broke out. Today, non Jews are not full citizens in the land that the Palestinians lived on for eons, and what's left of the native Palestinians are held in a concentration camp.

If things being bad where you live is a legitimate reason to take another country, all of Africa should be taking Europe today, along with much of Asia. In fact, we may as well forget countries if that's the metric, all countries treat some group poorly.

The invaders gained more land than they had at the outset (they had NONE at the outset, they lived in what had been British ruled Palestine, and was now reverting to Palestinian rule...) but the Jews wanted their own Jewish country and stole it from the people who had never had an army, using American weapons purchased mainly with American money (or given to them for free) while the Palestinians were barely supported by their neighbors, who had never been their allies. It was not "civil war' it was an invasion. Those fighting came from elsewhere to steal the land, it was not just the native Jews fighting, it was mostly invading Jews.

Yes, of course they refused. If Mexico took Texas, then the UN said "OK, it's yours, just don't take New Mexico", yet the Mexicans were already settling in New Mexico with their army protecting the settlements, I really don't think the US would accept the UN plan either. It was ridiculous and a plan based on stealing from Peter to pay Paul back for somethin Ringo stole. WTF?!?

Yes, that counts as 'stealing land' using overwhelming force, then fighting over it, then stealing MORE land, then subjugating and dehumanizing the locals, then stealing MORE land, and more land, and more land, and whining and crying that they're the victims.

The alliance of Arab nations that fought them was much SMALLER militarily, you know this.
When a 'smaller' invading force uses it's international contacts to become a violent racist bully, uses it's overwhelming force to steal land for decades, pushing the locals into the sea or concentration camps, kills tens of thousands and imprisons millions in horrendous conditions for decades and claims they want peace, yes, they need to return all the land they gained with their evil behavior or expect the leftovers of their genocide to strike back until one side is wiped out.

They were not a nation when they did this. They were an invading horde of Europeans trying to create a religious nation on someone else's land.

bcglorf said:

Sorry, but I still can't understand. We obviously don't get to wish away history and just declare America and everybody else should've allowed more Jewish immigration and thus the Jew's that fled to Palestine were illegitimate. If we are wishing, we might as well go all out for an alternate history where Hitler and the Nazi's respected human rights and strove for peace.

Fact is that millions of Jews were trying to flee persecution in Europe(and not just the Nazi's, they were just the worst of the bunch). Fact is that the nations of the world, just like today and always, didn't want to take in nearly that many refugees. They allowed in the smartest and the richest, and that was about the line that was drawn. Truly, I can not blame the still million plus Jews with nowhere to legally escape to choosing illegal immigration to locations deemed safer for them and their families. With Palestine already having a sizable Jewish population and being closer than many other places, it made perfect sense for them to flee there. I really can't see any rational objection to this you've raised save for declaring their situation NOT that desperate or that magically we should've changed history and had everyone else act better, which plainly wasn't something the European Jews could rely upon.

As to theft of land, prior to the total outbreak of civil war in Palestine, it cut both ways. You again seem to refuse to acknowledge this. It was not just the Jews unfairly and violently dealing with the Arab Palestinians, but it was equally Arab Palestinians doing the EXACT same to the Jewish Palestinians. With the British pulling out, both parties were grabbing for land and power. You talk as though the Arab Palestinians were standing there holding out roses and snacks for the Jewish Palestinians only to find themselves shot down for the favour.

After the break out of civil war the Jewish Palestinians and refugees absolutely gained more land than they had at the outset. That is hardly the only time in history that a civil war worked out that way though. More over, when Israel accepted the UN 2 state solution, it was the Arabs that refused, allied with the surrounding Arab state to grossly outnumber the fledgling Jewish state and swore to drive the Jews into the sea. The exact quote is from Azzam Pasha, the Secretary-General of the Arab League, who declared "We will sweep them into the sea". When that war ended, Israel was even larger than when the war started. If that counts as 'stealing' land I think your a little too lose with your definitions. When a much larger alliance of nations tries to destroy a smaller one, is it really expected that the smaller nation return all land it gained as a manner of good behaviour?

Teacher Dancing With His Students Has Already Won 2016

eric3579 says...

It's not so much about the kids although it ends up benefiting them. It's more about good teachers. He teaches other teachers how to teach this way. They come from all over to learn from him at his school. They can then take it back to their classroom and use it. He started off doing this in his own classroom in a public school before he started his academy. It's really all about the teacher. Watch those links i linked, especially the talk he gives. It's really refreshing and amazing imo.

Esoog said:

His school is very impressive, but I wonder if it would scale. Could we do this everywhere? I think we could, with enough buyin from government.

They have a tuition scale: https://fluencycontent-schoolwebsite.netdna-ssl.com/FileCluster/TheRonClarkAcademy/Mainfolder/RCA-Admissions-Class-of-2020-DOWNLOAD.pdf

For a household like mine, its a bit expensive to attend. ~$10,000 a year. I think he's doing a lot of things right for education, but at that price, its simply not scalable. My wife teaches in a low income area where some families can barely afford an $8 t-shirt.

woman destroys third wave feminism in 3 minutes

draak13 says...

It's extremely important to note that, at the collegiate level, it is taught in introductory sociology courses that feminism is exactly what she says it is. Feminism by its traditional definition is actually a pretty crappy thing, which most people from both sexes would agree on in modern times. While feminists have done wonderful things for women's rights, her message of gender equality is really refreshing.

Disturbing Muslim 'Refugee' Video of Europe

shang says...

You wouldn't like my resolution.

Course main reason majority of Americans are against it is our culture and heritage. Americans have never ran. During British rule we didn't run to Louisiana territory begging Spain or France to accept refuges. We took up arms and bled for our land. Patriotism is not bad as political correctness morons try to push.

That's why for us, or many of us, refugee makes no sense. And our forefathers even exclaimed if any Americans became refugees they deserved no country, our creed "give me liberty or give me death!" The 2nd amendment left behind by our founders to ensure a free society.

"We need a revolution every 200 years, because all governments become stale and corrupt after 200 years. " - Benjamin Franklin

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

The word refugee makes absolutely zero sense to Americans. At least me being Generation X and all my generation and older. You do not run you die fighting. The beginning of the Revolution Americans didn't have hardly any weapons, it was sabotage and terrorism and the capture of gun stockpiles by militias the armed the beginning, then France helped supply us.

They should right, but the proof is they are not refugees! That's media political correctness lies. Just as said in that video
Quote by Muslim - "this isn't refugees, this is invasion"
They use political correctness as a shield to get in.

Man Arrested For Trying to Snort Cocaine During Traffic Stop

Making a Jarvi Bench

Drunk UConn Kid Goes Nuts After Being Denied Service

Barbar says...

It is refreshing when you see something like this dealt with appropriately. His last sentence was the best though, "You can't fuckin' touch my neck!". I'm not sure that's a rule, kid.

Smarter Every Day - You won't believe your eyes

dannym3141 says...

I've always said the word genius is bandied around way too much, and this video is a fine example. CRT screens/tvs follow the same idea - individual lights illuminate in sequence quickly enough to form a static picture, each pixel changes very slightly 100 times per second (refresh rate) to give the illusion of the original picture in motion. The CRT beam scans ("rasters") from top left to bottom right (for example) in exactly the same way that the device in the video spins (it rasters in a circle) and however many times it spins per second is the refresh rate.

It's a cool project and his PCB work is nice, and he's done a good job of translating a picture into a timed set of lights. The videographer uses the term genius because he was not previously aware of the long history of rasters. This would be a useful tool for teaching children about the process - CRTs might not be popular anymore, but CCDs are fundamental to (astro)physics, and the principles behind both cover a huge range of potential teaching topics.

nanrod (Member Profile)

worthwords says...

I understand that but people are very bad at doing chest compressions and often because they are too gentle - which this video re-affirms. if it was a few years ago since you did your course this advert might make you worse at your technique.
These events don't time themselves 2 weeks after you had a CPR refresher course.

The lady on the right in this photo is a bit rusty!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-illvh8YyI8A/UfiiMTwYD9I/AAAAAAAAWrQ/pID8Iw9kbKw/s1600/cpr+with+two+women+doing+it+right+dr+heckle+funny+wtf+pictures.jpg

nanrod said:

I'm pretty sure that the message here is not "this is how you do it" but "Go and learn how to do it "

Little Help Needed from Anyone with an iPhone 5 (Sift Talk Post)

oritteropo says...

I did see this, but it wasn't consistent.

When I clicked a few of the images I got mouseover for each of them, but then clicking a second, third, fourth or fifth time did nothing except flash a square around the image... no page load happened.

It wasn't consistent though, at that exact moment I got a message and left Safari to reply to it, and when I went back everything worked. I tried a page refresh, but that didn't bring back the bad behaviour either.

I'm running iOS version 8.4 (12H143), and it's very likely to be version dependent.

Now I'm curious how @lurgee will go!

lucky760 said:

This is what she reported back to me: "On my Iphone 5 the mousover text pops up and I can click. The second time I want to do this it doesn't work anymore. On the iphone of a friend it does not work at all; nothing happens."

Does it do the same for you, that the "second time" (not sure if she means tapping the same hotspot a second time or tapping a second hotspot) you tap it doesn't work anymore?

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll tuck it away as data for my informal survey.

I discovered Kathleen Madigan a couple of years ago and loved her. I don't know why she isn't more well known. I get pretty bored by most stand up -- Louis CK being an exception. Thanks for the link -- I'm definitely going to watch it.

And thanks for taking me at face value. Really refreshing.

Mordhaus said:

I can't speak to the feminist portion of your question. I am not a feminist; more of a humanist, really. I could assume that having a related ideology might make her jokes more palatable, but it would be only a base assumption.

I asked my wife to view this clip on youtube, without reading the comments on this link. She is not a feminist either, so I simply asked her as a woman, did she find this funny? She said that clip was "mildly amusing" but she did not believe me when I told her that Amy was one of the top female comedians right now. Bear in mind that we don't watch cable, only Netflix and Prime, so she has not had exposure to her comedy skits on Inside Amy Schumer.

I do think Tina Fey is funny for the most part. I love Iliza Shlesinger. Kathleen Madigan puts me in stitches. I would say that this clip https://youtu.be/4wzpYDnqhiI is hilarious and meets your aforementioned criteria. The thing is, I personally find that clip hilarious, and I can't really say that about most of Ms. Schumer's work.

MIT Students Predict the Robot Apocalypse

Donald Trump - The opposite of politically correct

bobknight33 says...

For a megalomaniac worth 8 Billion he sure know how to get things done.
Political incorrectness be damned. Refreshing.

The only good thing about him is that he would not be bought by K street.

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Australia Dogs Countdown

MilkmanDan says...

I disagree, because PR rule #1 for politicians / elected officials is:
Suck up to your constituents and tell them exactly what they want to hear.

I'd wager that most Aussies are quite pleased that he didn't fold like a cheap suit and grant a PR-friendly exception to Depp just because he's "some famous cunt". The Aussies I know don't beat around the bush or mince words, which is something that I personally find very refreshing.

heropsycho said:

I think the only way to disagree with Oliver is that you think Barnaby acted like a professional politician in this case. He completely didn't.

This is pretty much a no-brainer to handle politically. PR rule #1 is don't say in a public interview, "We're gonna kill/euthanize/terminate/murder/wax/put down/exterminate/execute/massacre/slay his dogs."

I'm not a politician, and even I know that. Even when he got his way, go on twitter like a vindictive prick? Really, what is he, a 5 year old?!

Black Man Vs. White Man Carrying AR-15 Legally

Asmo says...

Erm, I'm a fucking Australian and even I remember...

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

And for all those people saying "He shouldn't have done that because it's not safe", you do comprehend that you're proving the case these guys are trying to make right? You're openly admitting that the black guy was in grave danger as soon as he walked out in the open with that gun hanging off him, just because he was black.

Not a single comment expressing concern for the safety of the white guy for doing the exact same thing because you all assume that he's a lot safer doing it, right? \= |

If the social experiment of actually taking the gun out and seeing how the cops react isn't legitimate enough, the reaction of posters confirms the results emphatically.

JustSaying said:

That was stupid. Guy could've been shot to death. That ain't worth making a point, no matter how right these guys are.



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