I also had some abdomen pain, but not as much as I do now. It's hard to say if the stomach expanding or the loss of appetite was the first symptoms. I went to my gastro doc first thinking it might be something celiac related, but when it kept getting worse I went to a doctor at austin regional clinic. He said it sounded like a gallbladder issue and sent me to the sonogram. Now I have to go back to the gastro doc on the 28th, which I was lucky to get thanks to how covid is hitting all the docs, and see if we can drain the fluid.

I'm hoping it doesn't start hurting to the point where I have to go to the emergency room and get it drained before then. It's just crazy, my mom died in 2019 from liver/kidney failure but she was in her 60's with many bad habits. I'm only 48 and other than being overweight I don't, I quit smoking many years ago and I almost never drink, but here I am. Now I have to wonder if having covid before I could get vaccinated accelerated the failure.

Anyway, I'll post when I know more. Just really down atm.

If I quit smoking and a week later I died in a car crash, I'd be pissed!

I've said before in other comments that earth is home to many worlds. Each of us creates our own world with what we know or don't know. Some know they are artists. Others don't know or don't believe it.

Since the bible has been the biggest stumbling block on earth ever created, religions have been created that separate us. Don't get me wrong. I have been an atheist. I was raised as a Catholic and had to go to church every Sunday. I hated going because it was so damn boring and confusing.

Love on the other hand was something different. Something I could relate to just by some of the hot babes that were in my classes in school! I could feel the love there. But my love was limited. I hated being kissed on the cheek by Aunt Mary because she always got lipstick on my cheek and her breath stunk. Pretty shallow, I know.

Stick with me here.

It's been said or at least I've heard, God is love. That was simple. Brief. But it was also puzzling. Is it God or is it love. Which is it?

The only way it made sense to me was, God is the character name of the person reading the book. I don't need to believe in God. I just need to believe in myself. That helps me believe in others.

I learned that by losing someone I love.

Since then people tell me I should stop smoking cigarettes. I tell them that if I quit smoking today and then die in a car accident next week I'm going to be PISSED!

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one -John Lennon


All alone, or in two's
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands
The bleeding hearts and the artists
Make their stand
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall

Isn't this where

-Songwriters: Roger Waters

He's just presenting the science, he's wasn't involved in the research he's talking about.

But it's true, once you break the addiction cycle, cheese is no longer appetizing. It's very similar to quitting smoking in that sense.

If you wanna quit smoking, buy a proper vaping kit (not the sort they sell at the gas station or likely anything a tobacco company makes), cut down the nicotine level bit by bit over a month or so (but don't let it drag out too long) until you're at about 1 or 2 mg a day. Then stop.

It's pretty easy if you do it right. The vapor makes all the difference. The gum and patches don't work, you need the instant absorption you'll only get through your lungs.

If you don't want to quit smoking, don't.

My mistake, it was from another thread....
http://videosift.com/video/Taking-Personal-Responsibility-for-Your-Health
The link...http://thatnerdysciencegirl.com/2015/11/13/the-case-against-dr-michael-gregernutritionfacts/

I was wrong, he only implied the WHO said that, using their announcement to make the false analogy. Smoking increases your chances of cancer by >2000%, eating processed red meat daily increased chances of colorectal cancers by 18%. They are in no way equivalent...but he claims they are, and goes even farther by saying that switching to a plant based diet is equivalent to quitting smoking, ignoring that the paper he references only contains results based on processed/cured red meats, and ignoring the 2000%vs18%, and ignoring the far more deadly cancers caused by smoking. That's a hell of a lot of extreme exaggeration and misrepresentation for one sentence.

I don't see a linked site.

And in regards to the WHO "saying" that going vegetarian (he more likely said plant-based vegan, but I'm too lazy to look around), I don't remember where he said that, but if the WHO didn't outright say that, maybe it's just a matter of logic that if they say quitting smoking decreases your likelihood for premature death by X% and going plant-based decreases your likelihood for premature death by >=X%, then effectively they are "saying" that.

But this is all speculation, because I have no idea which paper/video you guys are talking about.

Explain how that differs from what I wrote. When he says that, it's clear and incontrovertible that he means to imply that switching from a non plant based diet to a plant based one offers the same health benefits as quitting smoking...which is a bold lie. Do you disagree?

2000% increase in cancer rates VS 18% increase is in no way equivalent, so still a bold faced lie....and it's not 'plant based vs meat based' in the studies he references, it's really processed food vs non processed foods, a fact he repeatedly misrepresented and intentionally so....so again, bold faced lies.

Are you watching these videos via the enigma encryption machine? Because he does not say that.

He says "Plant based diets may now be considered the nutritional equivalent of quitting smoking."

If you eat fresh vegetables, fresh fruits, whole grains, and fresh non processed hormone free meats, all in moderation, you'll be healthier.

Hilarious that you start by lambasting him for eating vegan but poorly, then instantly forget what you said in paragraph one and lie that a vegan diet is automatically better...It's simply not that simple.

Eating healthy is healthier than not. That's the best you can honestly say.

Nutritionfacts.org is run by a lying, constantly exaggerating quack that's been repeatedly debunked for making things up and cherrypicking data and studies to fit his preconception and further his movement. He said the WHO said going vegetarian is equivalent to quitting smoking.....it's a lie, they said no such thing or anything close. The science says eating processed meat daily increased cancer risk for colorectal cancer by 18%, and smoking increased cancer risk by 2000%. Not equivalent at all.
Downvote for fibbing about science and for hyping a liar.

I think @transmorpher is either being a little deceitful or has completely confused himself, so I'd just like to make a few points clear:

Dr. Neal Barnard is the person who said "plant based diets (quitting meat) is the equivalent of quitting smoking."

I can find no evidence of the WHO referring to Dr. Barnard's study or any other work. They certainly would not condone that statement because it is bullshit science as previously stated.

Dr. Barnard appears on the website Quackwatch which aims to "combat health-related frauds, myths, fads, fallacies, and misconduct." Quackwatch is well respected, except amongst quacks.

To summarise, this means that he is quoting a study written by a known quack, and using the WHO statement on carcinogenic effect to support it. There is no scientific basis for using the WHO statement as confirmation of Dr. Barnard's quote about quitting smoking (see previous comment). It is Dr. Barnard who refers to the WHO, not vice versa.

It also means that there is only one person and study saying that it is more healthy to quit meat than smoking, as far as i can tell. Perhaps other studies say the same thing with different wording and I can't find it - but the onus is not on me to find the evidence, it is upon you to supply it.

A report that places chicken nuggets, turkey slices and bacon in the same category as cigarettes and asbestos is NOT equivalent to saying that quitting meat is the disease and mortality equivalent of quitting smoking.

That is patently absurd, and demonstrates what happens when someone tries to apply the scientific conclusion of a study to ...everything else. Scientific studies have a particular scope. They should state clearly within the study the limits of what the information can tell us.

1. How much of those meat products must you eat vs. how many cigarettes do you have to smoke? If i quit having one slice of bacon a week, I will not be healthier than if i quit smoking 10 a day.
2. The meat products you refer to make up only a small fraction of the meat based produce that is available. You might as well say "krokodil is bad for you, so stop taking your insulin."

I expect you to admit that the bit from the comment quote (put in bold) is wrong.

OK, so cured meats cured with nitrates are now classified carcinogenic, but non cured meats, and meats cured without nitrates, salt, or smoke only "may" be slightly carcinogenic...or may not. So still, not all deli turkey, not all chicken nuggets (I make them at home from whole chicken with no preservatives) or bacon (I had some uncured bacon a few years back...it sucked, but it does exist)....so not ALL processed meats are in that category, and certainly not all nuggets, sliced turkey, or bacon...so exaggeration, even if you wish to say it's only exaggeration by omission of detail.

Because he strongly implies it's because they are meats, says "The World Health Organization recently published a report that puts chicken nuggets, deli turkey slices, bacon and other processed meats in the same category as cigarettes and asbestos: known carcinogens" without explanation, and extrapolates to imply that all meats are as carcinogenic as habitually smoking processed tobacco cigarettes.

In terms of disease, overall danger to a person's health, and morality, it's completely inaccurate, and grossly misleading. A processed plant diet (the norm) can be FAR worse for you and the environment than a sustainably raised, non processed meat based diet (which is not the norm). It's not cut and dry, details matter.
"The International Agency for Cancer Research (IARC) used clearly defined guidelines to identify hazards (qualitative evaluation), i.e. whether an agent can cause cancer, but IARC does not assess level or the magnitude of risk.
Even though smoking is in the same category as processed meat (Group 1 carcinogen), the magnitude or level of risk associated with smoking is considerably higher (e.g., for lung cancer about 20 fold or 2000% increased risk) from those associated with processed meat – an analysis of data from 10 studies, cited in the IARC report showed an 18 percent increased risk in colorectal cancer per 50g processed meat increase per day. To put this in perspective, according to the Global Disease Burden Project 2012, over 34,000 cancer deaths per year worldwide are attributable to high processed meat intake vs. 1 million deaths per year attributable to tobacco smoke."
source- https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/11/03/report-says-eating-processed-meat-is-carcinogenic-understanding-the-findings/
So, smoking =2000% greater risk, eating meat daily-18% greater risk....so not honestly equivalent by any stretch.

I would agree that switching from a processed meat based diet to a non processed plant based (not even necessarily pure vegetarian) diet, in general, might be equivalent to quitting smoking (but smoking how much, and smoking what, depends on MANY variable factors, and it appears it's generally equivalent to smoking <2 cigarettes per week, while breathing air in most cities is equivalent to smoking a pack a day).

But the WHO report does in fact put chicken nuggets, turkey slices, and bacon into the same category(Group 1 carcinogens) as cigarettes and asbestos, because they are processed meats.

He's just saying what the report says, so I don't understand how that can be exaggeration.


"plant based diets (quitting meat) is the equivalent of quitting smoking".
In terms of disease and mortality that is completely accurate.