I did shooms a couple times before the Emerald Dream opened up and welcomed me in. Also recommend doubling up on psychedelics if you're in it for more than just some breathing walls and lights flickering around.

People talking about its poor flavor in the face of cosmic awareness? Sometimes you gotta float out in the negative zone and wait your turn while the real shit gets done. But you need nega bands, motherfucker! You can't construct nega bands with 5 grams of some shitty questionable mushrooms. Complain after 3 times that, some weed, and I don't know, LSD? At least it's not peyote. Yuck. Shooms just taste like stale cheese crackers.

peyote's a helluva drug.

First time this quote wasn't preceded by crap tons of peyote.

I guess I am having difficulty squaring two of the things you've mentioned. If a devout Muslim barber can refuse to serve women and this is not seen as discrimination why can't a devout Christian refuse to participate in a gay wedding and get the same respect from you?

As to the idea that religious rights, or rights of conscience are subservient to rights of physical attributes or genetic predisposition I need more convincing. The Civil Rights Act doesn't favor one over the other. Religion ranks as an equal with race, color, sex and national origin. How are physical rights "more protected?"

An instance comes to mind where someone's religious rights are actually weighed as more important that your physical rights. Members of the Native American Church may legally use peyote. You and I will be arrested.

I see the argument of conscience vs. genetics upside down from where you've landed. So does the State of Oregon. Did you know, that if there is no reconciliation between the bakery and the State then State will move to 'rehabilitate?' Because something must be defective in the bakery owner's mind they need to be 'rehabilitated.' That is chilling. The very idea that your thoughts could be somehow suspect indicates that the State has concluded that thoughts are incredibly important. Because thoughts lead to behavior. Not only do they not want you behaving in a certain manner, they don't even want you thinking it. I reference 1984 and Animal Farm.

I am not sure that people know what they are asking for when they back this kind of intrusion. It might seem right to them at this moment, but when their counterparts are are in charge (because the pendulum swings), it makes one wonder what thoughts will be in the dock then. How will that law be used to root out contrary thinking then? I want to be free to think what I want to think. I want the privilege of being right and the privilege of being wrong. I also want you to have that privilege, as well.

As I have mentioned before, I think these laws are blunt. While I agree that people should not be discriminated against and I practice that in my own life, what is to stop the members of Westboro Baptist Church from showing up at a bakery run by gays and demand they cater an anti-gay event? How can they refuse since they already cater other events? We have opened the proverbial can of worms

If that's the case, then there's no point continuing this conversation

okie dokie
>> ^messenger:
@<A rel="nofollow" class=profilelink title="member since January 21st, 2011" href="http://videosift.com/member/shinyblurry">shinyblurry
If that's the case, then there's no point continuing this conversation. As a bible literalist, you decided before the conversation began what your belief was going to be at the end, so this is not really a meeting of intellects --both open to new ideas-- but a clash of one such intellect versus a skilled defender of tautological dogma, which, sadly, is unresolvable because such dogma, by its own definition, cannot be challenged from within. The fact that you say you derive your faith in the word of God from the word of God itself is exactly what I mean.
You say that if someone truly tries to reach God, he will. That's true in that person's mind. It's also true that if you really try to reach faith in the Jewish version of God, or try to find "true connection with the universe," or go on a spirit walk with peyote to find your spirit guide animal, or meditate on a fire until you begin to see the God within it, and do so with a sincere heart, you will be able to succeed in any of those things. The only question is, do you feel more kinship with Christians or Jews or hippies or Native Indians or stoned camper? That will determine which way you feel most comfortable accessing the same experience of connection with a higher power.
So while you're seeking the truth, consider that the way you found your good spiritual feeling isn't unique to the Church -- that's just where you happened to find yours first.
And finally, you really don't understand science if you don't think evolution is a scientific theory. Any theory that is arrived at through following science is a scientific theory. That's a definition. The only reason atheists (I'm using the term broadly here) seem to care about that particular theory is that we noticed Christians were attacking it. The only reasons Christians were attacking it and not any other scientific theories is simply because it exposes a flaw with your faith's creation myth, which has dire implications for the rest of the stories in that book.
Peace.

@shinyblurry
If that's the case, then there's no point continuing this conversation. As a bible literalist, you decided before the conversation began what your belief was going to be at the end, so this is not really a meeting of intellects --both open to new ideas-- but a clash of one such intellect versus a skilled defender of tautological dogma, which, sadly, is unresolvable because such dogma, by its own definition, cannot be challenged from within. The fact that you say you derive your faith in the word of God from the word of God itself is exactly what I mean.

You say that if someone truly tries to reach God, he will. That's true in that person's mind. It's also true that if you really try to reach faith in the Jewish version of God, or try to find "true connection with the universe," or go on a spirit walk with peyote to find your spirit guide animal, or meditate on a fire until you begin to see the God within it, and do so with a sincere heart, you will be able to succeed in any of those things. The only question is, do you feel more kinship with Christians or Jews or hippies or Native Indians or stoned camper? That will determine which way you feel most comfortable accessing the same experience of connection with a higher power.

So while you're seeking the truth, consider that the way you found your good spiritual feeling isn't unique to the Church -- that's just where you happened to find yours first.

And finally, you really don't understand science if you don't think evolution is a scientific theory. Any theory that is arrived at through following science is a scientific theory. That's a definition. The only reason atheists (I'm using the term broadly here) seem to care about that particular theory is that we noticed Christians were attacking it. The only reasons Christians were attacking it and not any other scientific theories is simply because it exposes a flaw with your faith's creation myth, which has dire implications for the rest of the stories in that book.

Peace.

>> ^MycroftHomlz:

As a physicist, I am utterly confused how quantum mechanics plays a role in determining random differences between humans. I think probably chaos is more at work here.
It seems like the rest is conjecture. Even twins sometimes turn out very different. I highly doubt that two people with different genetics when subjected to the same environment and conditioning will arrive at the same end state. There are just way too many variables to assume that that is always true.
>> ^kceaton1:
...True, free will has and will always be an utter joke. People claim they would not do something in someone else's shoes, but if you impose the same biology and conditions--YOU WILL do EXACTLY the same thing (except for random quantum mechanical variations). In fact when it is said and done your mind will be indistinguishable from theirs...



Well to be honest when I wrote "quantum mechanical fluctuations" I'm talking about extremely small scale instances that get "measured" slightly differently (I explain a tad further down below). As particles have a pesky nature of doing two things at once or being measured somewhere else than expected or acting different than expected--it's even been shown to a limited degree that quantum mechanical effects like the dual slit experiment, entanglement, and superposition/duality may have some large scale implications (large scale meaning, the size of a few atoms or a molecule). Anything that would have large scale influences would have to be akin to "The Butterfly Effect". Repeating an event over ,as far as we know, can't be done "perfectly". Hence, the only reason I said fluctuations--yes, folks they would "most likely" be incredibly negligible. Give it 10 billion years then we might have something to talk about (like the small-scale setup at the big bang basically determining the layout and setup of the Universe as we see it now).

Second, what I mean by "wearing someone else's shoes", is to show that that this line of reasoning is impossible as we understand physics and neurology. In my opinion it also shows a very large lack of empathy or understanding in someone. At the least they do not have a good grasp of multiple subjects and how they interrelate; especially concerning the sciences.

I'm saying we would take whatever constitutes "the soul" and stick it in the baby. From my understanding and point of view, as I don't believe in a magical source of self that exists at any level. This would mean, literally nothing changes. Then let things go from there; this really is a time-travel experiment. This is a ludicrous idea. Experience and time, what we face and our decisions, our neurons and their connections and the chemical composition and topography of the brain IS our soul. If you switched places, you WILL be that person; as you don't exist. In your example the other twin would have to literally occupy the exact time and space as her twin--which can't happen; it's untestable. It's a thought experiment. Quantum mechanics would by definition require some changes to occur if "the test" is possible to be created by us--we would change things by interfering in any way.

Only someone religious could ever find a separate or different answer.

I'm talking of a literally switch not a philosophical attributed example (like religion) or a biological test and study of nature/nurture. It is ludicrous, as everything we know about our psyche shows that we experience reality as a type of delusion (practically the only way to describe our reality, psychologically speaking) which can be changed by a great many factors (your biology, drugs, or any interaction). When we communicate to each other (and this is what makes humans so important on Earth and different) we are able to communicate and describe across that sensory and brain created "delusional" void. What can and does get across IS also immense: our experiences, our own point-of-view, our senses, our own delusion. Then we can compare and make a determination of what constitutes reality by ourselves or in a group. Even if someone is high or I should say using anything that will change perception or alter senses, they/we can tell that there is a change through internal logic and experience a new "delusion" or perception. Some religions see this as a way to communicate divinely or likewise; i.e. examples like Native Americans and peyote. It's THE supreme attribute and ability we have as humans as well as "old world" monkeys. They seem to also, "possibly" grasp this "void" and how that barrier can be crossed too. A VERY limited version of ours, however.

We have found ape fossils that suggest that there may've been apes in the past that had I.Q.s in the 300 range. But, without the ability to teach each other, in a very complex manner, they were useless and died off. The fact we can retain old knowledge and teach and re-teach, write it down, save it to a drive, etcetera is the reason why we prosper with a smaller I.Q..

I hope that's much clearer. Or at the least helps. Some is meant for general consumption by others.

/One thing. If you're a physicist as you say, please tell me you don't think "chaos theory" or something akin to it, works on any other level than "maybe" (as we don't know yet) the quantum mechanical level. Everything that is bigger than a particle has very straightforward understandings. Otherwise, we'd have nuclear reactors blowing up everywhere, planes falling out of the sky, etc... Even people would start doing things "for no reason" except: well chaos theory made me do it. If you're talking merely about small-scale interactions still bigger than an atom, then still if you had the detectors, math, and "layout" ready beforehand you'd be able to "predict" an amazing array of things.

The only reason it seems chaotic is sensory and theory deprivation. The main forces of physics (weak/strong/electromagnetism/gravity/pluswhatwefind) describe actions very well. Especially, when we build it.

//Sorry, I think that may be a little too adversarial, but chaos to me is just a lack of "x"--whatever your dealing with.
///Lastly, (a bit more about above) the brain is amazing, but I definitely know I do not even come remotely close to being able to claim I've made a choice due to free-will; modern psychology is starting to understand that this is a fallacy of perception--The Matrix got one thing very right (as much as I hated the second and third shows, THIS was a great line that bears repeating and understanding): It's not the choices that we make that should surprise us, it's why we made the choice in the first place. Free-will is used best with LOTS of pre-planning and thinking ahead; most choices are made for you already. Understanding the way the human brain is doing the stuff it's doing is showing us that "WE" or "ourselves" have a great ability to take horrifically misunderstood or saved-sensory information and make it fit what we want it to fit. It's our rational ability that is the amazing and saving grace for us, or we would ALL be truly mad and lost in our own delusional worlds--each person seeing the world immensely different; like people with illnesses/on drugs/ or having a true mental illness do.

It should be noted that other people can also act like drugs, illnesses, senses, and other type affects on you. Hence, religions do very well at self sustaining belief and manipulation; this goes for all group-think.

A bit long, but this is a subject that I'm impassioned about and I do hope some take it to heart and understand it's implications and ramifications as they're far reaching. It has brought me great peace to know I found some truth in this life. I also have peace in what I would say is my spiritual health (psyche, but more general--including memories and thinking). Losing faith with nothing to use is an extremely disheartening event; I know. Science and understanding helped me transition immensely. I know many others that did not have this to use; I'm not kidding when I say that all sciences and math comes to me easily--many I know don't have this ability. It caused me to fight lies, fear, misunderstandings, and ignorance with patience and the ability to never give up. Truth has one great quality in that it is a lot like water. It finds every nook and cranny on a rock. It goes everywhere and ultimately will collapse and destroy anything that isn't waterproofed and all it needs is time. Ideas are the same, but truth is like water. If you find someone that is willing to at least ask a question of you, that is the half way point. Point them in the right direction and time will cause the change, but they must be curious, steadfast, and ready to question the questions.

Adults are the most lost. With my understanding of the human mind it makes perfect sense why they are the hardest to change. It may eventually be shown that it's impossible to reach everyone, physiological and psychologically speaking. Their own neural pathways and memories literally make it impossible for them to make that change or escape their own delusion, their current mind/brain has no way physically to do it--maybe with drugs or surgery--extreme, I know, but this also goes for chronic depression, mania, and SO MANY other type of conditions.

/Wow, that covered a lot of ground--heavily edited in a few spots for better clarification or expansion of a notion that needed some meat to be understood correctly. Tom Cruise is a moron who may be like what I said in the last point (unfortunately). I hope this is more informative than derisive as some points will be no matter what.

WARNING: Meant to be long and informative.

Peyote or DMT, like this would feel, always figured I have.>> ^BoneRemake:

>> ^Throbbin:
This is what I always figured Peyote or DMT would feel like.

feel ?
no sir, when you are on the drug, you would feel it, this, this would equate to what you might experience visually, to be in that head space, that .... realm. you cannot compare physical with watching a video.. although I understand what you may of meant, I disagree with the way you framed your sentence.

>> ^Throbbin:

This is what I always figured Peyote or DMT would feel like.


feel ?

no sir, when you are on the drug, you would feel it, this, this would equate to what you might experience visually, to be in that head space, that .... realm. you cannot compare physical with watching a video.. although I understand what you may of meant, I disagree with the way you framed your sentence.

This is what I always figured Peyote or DMT would feel like.

I am extremely sure my cartoons I posted around town offended its followers, WHICH for a fact I know 18 hours after being posted where still up . In a redneck hick Alberta town they are still up. even when I juxtaposed Islam as being as false as Christianity; and the fact I wrote the manufacturer of the religion was high on either shrooms, peyote or hash/cannabis.

at 2 am on the 20th I put up a drawing I did... More then just a stick man, I made a pretty funny cartoon. Then at 12 pm when I seen that one was still up I drove to the other town bulletin boards and posted the other Cartoons I drew. Most where offensive because they where of Mohammad explaining how drunk/high/peyote binge he was on when he created a religion he called "Islam"

So I hope I can rest my head easy knowing I did my anonymous part.

^I'll remind you as well, that the man who offers the observations above, has let his own guard down with regard to character and right conduct on this site and all of the motherfuckers I poked and prodded deserved it, including myself-I don't hate you thinker247....I hate your mother for having you.

Now see, that is what is known as a joke, son. Not to be taken as a personal attack....I am simply pushing the buttons you have offered me to initiate a response. My suggestion is that you get out more, maybe get a real person to have a relationship with, perhaps volunteer down at the children's hospital, maybe read a few books without the aid of a computer monitor, join a softball team....exercize?? I dunno, try some fucking peyote with a shaman who can help you find your power creature..You are a child-

>> ^Doc_M:
OK, I will grant that some psychedelics have a tendency to "open minds" but the fact is that they biologically work by damaging the brain's cognitive functions. They take one the single most amazing machine in the known universe and put holes in it like swiss cheese. This is not a good thing, but no one can deny that those holes have a way of letting unique thoughts in. I've experienced it and I'll admit it.
>> ^EndAll:
"Drugs have their advantages, but understanding reality is not one of them."
I didn't watch the video but I wanted to respond to this ^
I actually think certain drugs are very instrumental in helping to understand the true nature of reality. Many, many people have had mind opening experiences on certain psychedelic drugs that have changed their lives completely. I think some drugs can take us beyond the five-sense reality into what lies behind it. Reality is subjective. My reality is mine, yours is yours - what's true for me might not be true for you. But I have found certain drugs to make me much more in tune to what's going on around me; my reality.


The cool thing about psychedelics, Doc_M is they don't require a lot of use to get what you need out of them. Furthermore, I'd like to see some documentation backing up the claim of natural psychedelics' damaging effects on the human brain. That's mushrooms, Ibogaine, salvia, opium, peyote, marijuana, hell throw in LSD for good measure. And I'm not talking short term, I'm talking permanent damage to the brain's cognitive functions.

"Oh we've been around for some time and there's a good chance that the kronospussiden n' blankfuck's drug a choice and frequent be cock!"

-Peyote Growers of America