I never explained the 'minor sift war'. I thought maybe some siftectives would figure out the mystery.

In reply to this comment by dag:
I don't get it, but I'll vote for it based on the title. But really- "minor Sift War?" Hyperbole much?

If I was going to nominate for minor Sift War, it would be something like this:
http://www.videosift.com/video/ART-OF-SEDUCTION-Not-Pretty-Really

And a major Sift War would be this:
http://www.videosift.com/talk/TayTV-Situation

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I don't get it, but I'll vote for it based on the title. But really- "minor Sift War?" Hyperbole much?

If I was going to nominate for minor Sift War, it would be something like this:
http://www.videosift.com/video/ART-OF-SEDUCTION-Not-Pretty-Really

And a major Sift War would be this:
http://www.videosift.com/talk/TayTV-Situation

That's funny.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
I beat the 3rd level of empathy just fine, but the boss battle at the end of the 4th level is just impossible without a cheat code.

Look, I never stated that ugly or non-beautiful people do not get any of these same negative treatments, or harrassments... nor did I associate however it is you think I perceive myself with the incidents I reported. I merely offered up my experiences with the matter as a confirmation that the things referred to (mostly the more serious issues mentioned by oxdottir and persephone in their blogs, the harrassment, objectification, etc) are, in fact, not fun.

I also do not think, even for a moment, that men do shitty disgusting things based solely on something I do or the way I look, nor have I ever condoned it, or rationalized their behavior as such... if you would actually read my comment below you would see that. I'm sorry your own outlook on things has prevented you from looking at this any other way, or that you think I'm trying to undermine your experiences with my own, but that was not my intent.

All I meant with that post was for people to stop assuming that the girl in the video was crying for absolutely no good reason, because, I think at least, that she was crying because she perhaps had had similar exposure to sexual harrasment, and I wanted to offer this up as a possibility (because really, having only seen that short clip, none of us can know what she was really crying about). And I would think that anyone who has dealt with sexual harrassment or objectification (pretty or not, or whatever) would agree not to jump to conclusions about her tears because the damage done is very real, very hard to discuss, and very worth crying about.


In reply to this comment by smibbo:
the sexual harrassment you describe happens to ugly women too. it is very insensitive to make the association between your good looks and degrading treatment by men; its NOT a "looks" thing, its a FEMALE thing. I guess i'll keep saying it and you and the other pretty women will keep devalueing my point. I guess its hard for yall to believe ugly women gt harrassed too? They do. Because degrading and devalueing a woman is something "man" does for power and intimidation, not because you're so damned hot he can't help himself. They do it because they are cowardly jackasses, not because you look so great, no matter what they tell you. You give them a kind of "excuse" when you believe they do it for your looks. Stop believing that please, stop giving them that kind of "out" and please stop devaluing other women's experiences by constantly saying that because you're beautiful you get assholes bothering you; all us women get those assholes.

In reply to this comment by raven:
I agree with Kate that it is wrong to assume that the girl in the video is crying over nothing, or she is doing so just because she is beautiful... granted, that bit was lumped together with the other pretty minor complaints by everyone else, but I would think that the mere fact that she is crying is probably indicative that whatever it was she experienced was indeed pretty terrible... because as she said, some comments just do not make you feel pretty, they make you feel objectified, and even dirty.

I'm not talking about the basic, "You're very pretty" kind of compliment, but the kind that borders on, or is, sexual harrassment... you can't know unless its happened to you how terribly frightening and disgusting it is to be trapped in a elevator with a man who can't help but stare lecherously at you, and then ventures to say (true story), "I'd like to fuck you if you let me" Out of the blue, just like that, its terrifying, does not make one feel pretty but rather dirty somehow, and yes, it does bring out tears. Or there are even sometimes worse incidents involving coworkers or fellow students, where the objectification is continuous and after a while it becomes more than tiresome but rather stressful to have them all keep track of what you wear everyday, whether or not it shows off anything, or have them (rather publicly) get a pool going to see which of them will get to fuck you first (not kidding, guys, who are seemingly otherwise professional sorts, do actually do this kind of shit), which makes you begin to hate yourself and not want to go into school or work everyday. I'm not suggesting that this does not happen to those who aren't considered "beautiful" (whatever that cultural construct might currently be), but its damaging, and I can completely relate to where that girl is probably coming from.

Not special sympathy. Just a little empathy, which you and the likes of 'ol Deedub seem incapable of. I don't want to keep this up with you, because I feel for you, in your current state, so let's just agree to disagree, hey?


In reply to this comment by smibbo:
it sounds very much like you are saying being attractive garners special sympathy because the attractive could be attacked and subjected to harm. But if someone is ugly, don't worry about it, they aren't subject to unwarrented attention? Ironic because saying that right there makes you seem completely beliving of the myth that sexual predation is based on looks. Which sounds rather narcissistic. Being subjected to sexual predation of any kind is horrible, I know, it's happened to me even though I'm ugly! surprise surprise. I have plenty of empathy and sympathy for the victims of sexual predation. But don't act like I should hold special sympathy for the beautiful because they might be subject to it.
In reply to this comment by persephone:
You could start to think a little deeply about this statment and ask yourself why life is hard for different people. Then you could try to put yourself in the shoes of women who have been attacked and appreciate that being attractive doesn't always bring good things, or nice attention. Then you will have come a long way in understanding what it means to be someone else. Or not.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

So maybe I just need to stay positive, like you, you smug arsehole? Just kidding.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Wow. That was deep. I hope that didn't hurt your head. I'm kidding.

I appreciate what everyone's saying about it being hard sometimes to deal with being extremely attractive. But, EVERYONE has their own struggles. It's tough to be attractive, it's tough to be short, it's tough to be ugly, it's tough to black, it's tough to be a woman. My point is exactly this: It's tough to be alive and to deal with life everyday. You don't need to whine to each other because we all have our own trials. How do you think it feels to someone who was hit by a drunk driver and lost both their legs to hear someone complain about being attractive.

..and don't give me crap about attractive women being attacked. Ugly women get raped, too. It's a terrible, terrible thing, but it happens to very few of us. It happens to men, women, boys, girls, young, old, ugly, pretty, asian, latino... all kinds of people.

The part that's hard isn't being good looking... it's being alive and staying positive through sickness and health, through thick and thin.

In reply to this comment by persephone:
You could start to think a little deeply about this statment and ask yourself why life is hard for different people. Then you could try to put yourself in the shoes of women who have been attacked and appreciate that being attractive doesn't always bring good things, or nice attention. Then you will have come a long way in understanding what it means to be someone else. Or not.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

i'm glad you got where i'm coming from and were able to put it more eloquently than me, raven. i'm sorry you've had those experiences though; that sucks! i read smibbo's reply to you here just now, and it's a good example of how polarizing this video has been. you specifically said several times in your comment that this treatment by men is NOT based on the "beauty" factor, but it's hard not to get emotional about this stuff i guess.

In reply to this comment by raven:
I agree with Kate that it is wrong to assume that the girl in the video is crying over nothing, or she is doing so just because she is beautiful... granted, that bit was lumped together with the other pretty minor complaints by everyone else, but I would think that the mere fact that she is crying is probably indicative that whatever it was she experienced was indeed pretty terrible... because as she said, some comments just do not make you feel pretty, they make you feel objectified, and even dirty.

I'm not talking about the basic, "You're very pretty" kind of compliment, but the kind that borders on, or is, sexual harrassment... you can't know unless its happened to you how terribly frightening and disgusting it is to be trapped in a elevator with a man who can't help but stare lecherously at you, and then ventures to say (true story), "I'd like to fuck you if you let me" Out of the blue, just like that, its terrifying, does not make one feel pretty but rather dirty somehow, and yes, it does bring out tears. Or there are even sometimes worse incidents involving coworkers or fellow students, where the objectification is continuous and after a while it becomes more than tiresome but rather stressful to have them all keep track of what you wear everyday, whether or not it shows off anything, or have them (rather publicly) get a pool going to see which of them will get to fuck you first (not kidding, guys, who are seemingly otherwise professional sorts, do actually do this kind of shit), which makes you begin to hate yourself and not want to go into school or work everyday. I'm not suggesting that this does not happen to those who aren't considered "beautiful" (whatever that cultural construct might currently be), but its damaging, and I can completely relate to where that girl is probably coming from.

Wow. That was deep. I hope that didn't hurt your head. I'm kidding.

I appreciate what everyone's saying about it being hard sometimes to deal with being extremely attractive. But, EVERYONE has their own struggles. It's tough to be attractive, it's tough to be short, it's tough to be ugly, it's tough to black, it's tough to be a woman. My point is exactly this: It's tough to be alive and to deal with life everyday. You don't need to whine to each other because we all have our own trials. How do you think it feels to someone who was hit by a drunk driver and lost both their legs to hear someone complain about being attractive.

..and don't give me crap about attractive women being attacked. Ugly women get raped, too. It's a terrible, terrible thing, but it happens to very few of us. It happens to men, women, boys, girls, young, old, ugly, pretty, asian, latino... all kinds of people.

The part that's hard isn't being good looking... it's being alive and staying positive through sickness and health, through thick and thin.

In reply to this comment by persephone:
You could start to think a little deeply about this statment and ask yourself why life is hard for different people. Then you could try to put yourself in the shoes of women who have been attacked and appreciate that being attractive doesn't always bring good things, or nice attention. Then you will have come a long way in understanding what it means to be someone else. Or not.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

You could start to think a little deeply about this statment and ask yourself why life is hard for different people. Then you could try to put yourself in the shoes of women who have been attacked and appreciate that being attractive doesn't always bring good things, or nice attention. Then you will have come a long way in understanding what it means to be someone else. Or not.

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

the sexual harrassment you describe happens to ugly women too. it is very insensitive to make the association between your good looks and degrading treatment by men; its NOT a "looks" thing, its a FEMALE thing. I guess i'll keep saying it and you and the other pretty women will keep devalueing my point. I guess its hard for yall to believe ugly women gt harrassed too? They do. Because degrading and devalueing a woman is something "man" does for power and intimidation, not because you're so damned hot he can't help himself. They do it because they are cowardly jackasses, not because you look so great, no matter what they tell you. You give them a kind of "excuse" when you believe they do it for your looks. Stop believing that please, stop giving them that kind of "out" and please stop devaluing other women's experiences by constantly saying that because you're beautiful you get assholes bothering you; all us women get those assholes.

In reply to this comment by raven:
I agree with Kate that it is wrong to assume that the girl in the video is crying over nothing, or she is doing so just because she is beautiful... granted, that bit was lumped together with the other pretty minor complaints by everyone else, but I would think that the mere fact that she is crying is probably indicative that whatever it was she experienced was indeed pretty terrible... because as she said, some comments just do not make you feel pretty, they make you feel objectified, and even dirty.

I'm not talking about the basic, "You're very pretty" kind of compliment, but the kind that borders on, or is, sexual harrassment... you can't know unless its happened to you how terribly frightening and disgusting it is to be trapped in a elevator with a man who can't help but stare lecherously at you, and then ventures to say (true story), "I'd like to fuck you if you let me" Out of the blue, just like that, its terrifying, does not make one feel pretty but rather dirty somehow, and yes, it does bring out tears. Or there are even sometimes worse incidents involving coworkers or fellow students, where the objectification is continuous and after a while it becomes more than tiresome but rather stressful to have them all keep track of what you wear everyday, whether or not it shows off anything, or have them (rather publicly) get a pool going to see which of them will get to fuck you first (not kidding, guys, who are seemingly otherwise professional sorts, do actually do this kind of shit), which makes you begin to hate yourself and not want to go into school or work everyday. I'm not suggesting that this does not happen to those who aren't considered "beautiful" (whatever that cultural construct might currently be), but its damaging, and I can completely relate to where that girl is probably coming from.

Amen to that.

All I heard in that video was "boo hoo, I'm pretty." Who doesn't want to be pretty. Life's hard. Being good looking isn't.

In reply to this comment by LittleRed:
Because I was asked to post here instead...

I'll preface this by saying i've long been a lurker, but haven't felt the need to create an account until this madness started. I, too, am female. I've been told i'm attractive. That doesn't mean I complain about it. In fact, I really don't think it's all that terrible.

Take a look at all of this. Can you find a single woman who hasn't chimed in "Oh no! My life is terrible, too. Other people think i'm pretty!" Look really hard. You'll probably only find one, and that's only because she hasn't been on here in quite a while.

Maybe you should all (with the exception of Smibbo) stop posting about how life is oh-so-terrible because you're beautiful. Maybe the problem is that you need your head examined because you don't have the self-esteem to handle compliments.

I am heading into my senior year of Engineering. Needless to say, i'm one of very few females in my classes. In fact, I was one of three in a class last semester. Conveniently, the teacher always had us working in groups, and never had the girls together. Was it awkward? Yes. Was I hit on? Sure was. But I know how to accept compliments, and don't let things like that bother me.

I have a job where I occasionally use my femininity to my advantage. It makes me quite a bit of money. Do I have lecherous, disgusting male customers? Of course. But I don't go complain to everyone else who is female that will listen.

Yeah, maybe all the boys staring at you does get a little old. Sometimes even irritating. But it's not a problem until you make it into one. And if you can't do that, don't dress up. Stop attracting attention to yourself. Stop trying so hard. Why do you do it in the first place? To feel pretty. Women deny it, but everyone knows it's true.

Stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and stop making such a big deal out of nothing. There will always be someone who finds you attractive. Take it as a compliment and move on.

Thylan, there's no arguing your base point- I agree with you about valueing people's individual experiences - but you must pay attention to the word "value" itself. If Oxdottir puts up a personal experience for dicussion, I see no reason why everyone elses reaction should be criticized. I don't think a one of us said her experience is not "valid". As to understanding, hell yeah I understand what she's talking about!
but the situation is that we're talking about the downside to something that is universally agreed tobe a positive. It is a matter of scale because the human condition itself - frought with insecurity, instability and anxiety, is, as said, HUMAN. It's as if complaining about having to breathe or go to the bathroom; people certainly understand your complaint because we all share those issues, but you won't get much sympathy, in fact you'll probably get some antipathy from those who truly have unusual negative experiences in that realm (someone with a catheter probably won't appreciate hearing complaints about going to the bathroom)

more than anything, I kind of resent the attitude that because seems to be: if you aren't cooing sympathy and holding hands and singing kumbahyah then you are devaluing someone's experience. I'm sorry but as oxdottir's experience is valid and worthy of examination, so is someone elses. To hear the privelleged complain is grating to the unprivelleged, but what I'm saying is that if the priveleged want to be heard and validated, they must put their experience in perspective and be respectful of those they are complainin to. As said earlier when the woman says "It makes me feel NOT pretty, really" the response is "you mean like us UNPretty people feel ALL THE TIME?"
Its hard to feel respected when someone's complaint of hardship is your everyday life. It feels extremely invalidating, in fact. If you want to be validated for your hardship, do acknowledge the contextural perspective of what you describe. Validation won't come if you devalue others with your very statement.

"...and it makes me feel ... NOT-pretty, really." By which she means the way she figures the rest of us feel all the time?

Go explain to the good folks in Sudan that you are struggling with life being too good looking. Yawn.

In reply to this comment by persephone:
Think about what that really means, Fishlegboots. It means these people feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, they can't just be themselves, they can't be real, they don't want to be warm or candid with people too much, because they don't want to give the wrong message.

As far as women go, believe it or not, but they don't necessarily want to be fucked by every dude that comes along.

In reply to this comment by persephone:
Think about what that really means, Fishlegboots. It means these people feel they can't afford to be vulnerable, they can't just be themselves, they can't be real, they don't want to be warm or candid with people too much, because they don't want to give the wrong message.

As far as women go, believe it or not, but they don't necessarily want to be fucked by every dude that comes along.