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What is the impact of the Keystone Pipeline decision?

Stormsinger says...

Actually, there are quite a few politicians who know things beyond talking points. The key is that their knowledge is about the things that they personally care about. Warren and finance, Franken and net neutrality, etc.

What makes it look so bad, at the national level especially, is that they are expected to have views on everything. And let's be honest, nobody is knowledgeable on every subject, but any national politician cannot actually admit that he doesn't know something. So they make something up, or try to slide by on vague generalities. And sure, some of them are being vague in order to avoid putting their actual unpopular stance on record, or just because they're idiots. But don't let the rightwing memes get to you...not all politicians are stupid or corrupt. Many or most of them at the national level, but not all.

eric3579 said:

Ugh, listening to politicians regarding issues like this seems like such a waste of time. I'd prefer if i could hear the pros and cons by someone less biased. I trust nothing these two say. As if politicians know anything beyond talking points. I hate having to try and dissect and pick out good information from bullshit.

grumble grumble

eric3579 (Member Profile)

radx says...

Not a single amendment to the Net Neutrality bill passed, so we're stuck with a piece of shit legislation full of loopholes.

What you hear is the sound of my forehead slamming into my desk, repeatedly.

"Stupidity of American Voter," critical to passing Obamacare

lantern53 says...

Net neutrality is not bureacracy?

It is now, at least in the US. The gov't just decided to regulate it, which means we'll soon have a Dept. of the Internet.

I understand that some bureaucracy is inevitable. Again, bureaucracies are made to grow and grow and grow, which is what we now see in the US. It's large centralized power, which was not the intent of the founders.

Also, I don't see much benefit from socialized medicine. It only feeds the debt, which will be unsustainable. This is a concern since Obama has added at least $8 trillion to the debt in his 6 yr reign.

But I know with socialists...debt is just something invisible, or we'll let our great-grandchildren deal with the collapse.

"Stupidity of American Voter," critical to passing Obamacare

ChaosEngine says...

Net neutrality is not bureaucracy, any more than "not allowing organised crime to extort people" is.

Obamacare obviously has some significant overhead to it, but as the system beds in, people will streamline it and make it more efficient.

The majority of the world has found that some bureaucracy is a reasonable price to pay for the benefits of socialised medicine. It's never perfect. The question is whether you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

No-one is arguing for "large, unwieldy debt-ridden monstrosities", if that is happening, then measures should be put in place to deal with that. But in a country of 320 million people, some bureaucracy is inevitable.

lantern53 said:

I think gov'ts are quite essential. My problem is with bureaucracies...the first priority of which is to grow and grow and grow and grow, which means debt and debt and debt and debt.

But if you think large, unwieldy debt-ridden monstrosities are good for anyone....well, everyone has an opinion.

"Stupidity of American Voter," critical to passing Obamacare

Preservation - People Being Covered in Gallons of Honey

radx (Member Profile)

Net Neutrality Battle Rap

eric3579 says...

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

So the FCC won't let me be
They want to stack the deck for the ISPs
but we've got a couple of tricks up our sleeves
It's far too important to leave to police
it could lead to the streets
a breach of the peace
and even decrease our freedom of speech
there's never been a bigger reason to read up
and see what's agreed 'cause of greed for the green and deceit
The greener the leaf, the sweeter the tree
the quicker they'll chop it down and leave nothing but tree stumps; debris
the damage is done, no refund received
see, the thing about net neutrality
is unless you get huge salaries
? the paramedic won't rescue casualties
' til they've seen to the rich next dude's allergies
they'll prioritise cash over content
wanna send one bit? That's one cent
What nonsense, man it's scaring me
a planet of plenty's selling scarcity
Innovation paved the way
Now invaders are paying to take it away
but they ain't gonna make it today
! Letting that happen's a major mistake
If Lessig was rapping he'd tell you the same
LETTING THAT HAPPEN'S A MAJOR MISTAKE
Tim Berners Lee baked us a cake
and they've taken the cherry.. AND THE CAKE
discrimination is happening today
to blacks and to gays and to packets of data
though ethically they're exactly the same
so Oi, we're not gonna stand 4 it m8

U WOT?
THE FOK U SAYIN BRUV?
U WOT M8??????
! THE FOK U SAYIN BRUV
U WOT?
FAK OFF U ARSEHOLE!

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

I'm from the place John Oliver came from
but no matter where you live you should be singing the same song
at long last, I'm putting Comcast on blast
'cause they never learn their lesson like they're in the wrong class
well I'm the professor and I'm setting you with one task
Get them knocked back like a shot glass
Straight in front of me's a cable company
The way they're behaving's unbelievable
Comcast is in league with the devil
and it's pissing me off, I'm not even American
! Take a peek, see from the evidence
Netflix had to pay a fee to get better links
it's a shakedown, communication breakdown
There's a bully in the playground
I had enough of that at school, won't lay down
lay a finger on me, you'll be laid out
You'll be laid out
You'll be laid ou
You'll be laid out
You'll be laid out
lay a finger on me, you'll be laid out

The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back
The world wide web is under attack
They're taking it away but we're pulling it back

Taking it back, we're taking it back
We're taking it, we're taking back

Comcast put him on hold until they closed

Sniper007 says...

Anything the government does will be the worst for the end consumer, and benefit practical monopolies like Comcast. It's like trusting the FDA to regulate Monsanto for the good of the people. The FDA = Monsanto. Literally, they ARE the same PEOPLE. So it is with any "net neutrality" falsely so called.

For example: http://consumerist.com/2014/08/12/comcast-spending-110k-on-award-dinner-for-current-fcc-commissioner-doesnt-understand-why-anyone-thinks-thats-a-probl
em/

SquidCap said:

And you are trusting these guys to provide equal access to all sites on the internet, to handle net neutrality without regulation? Yeah, all regulation is bad cause without regulation you always get the best service, right?

Comcast put him on hold until they closed

SquidCap says...

And you are trusting these guys to provide equal access to all sites on the internet, to handle net neutrality without regulation? Yeah, all regulation is bad cause without regulation you always get the best service, right?

Zawash (Member Profile)

Collegehumor Breaks Down Net Neutrality

RFlagg says...

Ummm... I'm confused. Does Trancecoach and others like him think that Netflix doesn't pay to access the Internet? That Google, Amazon, Netflix and the like all have a free access pass to the Internet? Or when they say "In other words, people who stream video should pay for it, and not the people who don't." are they talking about end users and not the companies paying millions to access the Internet already? Or are they confused on other aspects?

Perhaps some aspects of this video confused them...

Right now if a person pays $45 a month for 15Mps they should expect all that content delivered to them at 15Mps. The way the ISPs want to rig it, is they want to go to Netflix/YouTube/Google/Amazon and other services and make them pay extra to get to that 15Mps. If Netflix doesn't pay then the ISP slows that content down to 10Mps, even though the end user is paying for 15Mps access. They aren't coming to the end user, yet, and having them pay extra for streaming access as shown in this video, though I'm sure they'll triple dip that too eventually. (Another problem I have with the video, beyond suggesting they'll just charge the end user extra, is that Netflix and others are willing partners in this scam, when Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix and all the others have been the biggest ones to support Net Neutrality and are fighting against the cable companies, while the video seems to suggest they'll handing the money over willingly.)

And if they mean the end user... then a person not streaming and only needing access to basic text and web stuff can get the basic 3Mbps option for only $30 or 2Mps option for $15. Streaming users do pay extra already. They pay for the extra bandwidth... if all you do is browse Facebook and tweet and the like and are using the 15Mbps or higher plans than you are an idiot. The end users do pay. As do the content companies like Netflix and YouTube/Google, Amazon and the rest...to the tune of millions a year. Yes, the content itself is far more expensive. For Netflix streaming a movie is cheaper than sending the DVD, postage is semi-cheap, but the people cost a lot. Still, they pay to access the Internet just like everyone else. Nobody is getting a free ride. This is just the ISPs trying to double, and potentially triple dip fees, and Net Neutrality seeks to stop them from double and potentially triple dipping. Bad enough we have to put up with banks double dipping ATM fees...

Big companies like Google, Netflix, Amazon and the like can potentially pay the fees if they have to. The question then becomes can sites like videosift pay whatever ComcastWarner, Verizon, AT&T want? I know my little blog couldn't pay extra... not that my site's users would need more than the 3Mps plan, if that, to access most of the content... save of course when I embed a YouTube video I made.

TLDR: The end user already pays extra if they stream above and beyond what an end user who doesn't stream pays. Also Netfilx, Amazon, Google and the like all pay millions to access the Internet, they don't get their access for free. What the ISPs want to do is tell Netflix, if they want to reach that customer who's paying $40 for 15Mps access at the full speed that consumer is already paying for, then Netflix has to pay that consumer's ISP in ADDITION to the costs they are already paying. If they don't pay, then the consumer is given that content at a slower speed than what they are paying their ISP to get it at. The ISPs are trying to double dip, and someday may triple dip. Net Neutrality would stop the ISPs from doing that.

Collegehumor Breaks Down Net Neutrality

MrFisk (Member Profile)

Collegehumor Breaks Down Net Neutrality



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