I count it as a hyper generous humanitarian gift given by Palestinians on day 1 that by day 3 (year 10+-) had become an invasion of hostile violent foreigners.

Because I don’t have a perfect solution for a problem no one could solve at the time does not in any way shape or form excuse the hostile invasion or fascist racist genocidal regimes since…
…but my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight, not run off and invade elsewhere. If they had the fighters to take Israel, they had the fighters to turn the war years earlier, but went for invasion and occupation instead.

So, you DO think the people of Haiti have the right to come to your doorstep and toss you in the street. I disagree. I reiterate, not being safe at home is no excuse to go elsewhere and make it’s inhabitants unsafe, especially if those inhabitants had nothing to do with you being unsafe, more so if they actually stuck their neck out to make some of your family safe.

I’ll try to unscramble that…”what would I have the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?”…the native Jews, nothing. They’re citizens. The refugees, refugee camps of a certain size and no over crowding. Once they’re full, go elsewhere. There were other places to go, although limited. The British had an obligation to support the Palestinians and prepare them to run the country, an obligation they completely shirked and instead facilitated the invasion of hostile foreigners while keeping the Palestinians defenseless.

Fuck you 6 million. They weren’t waiting for legal avenues for immigration. Those people for the most part had no option to be refugees or decide a thing, the Germans and Polish essentially woke up one day unable to travel. The people we are talking about had over a decade, and included Germans.

No, my POV relies on the theory that you having a bad time doesn’t give you a license to murder me and steal my stuff and subjugate my descendants horrifically.
Historically many groups have had tough scary times, many ending in actual genocide. Few took that as an opportunity to do the same to another group that was trying to help them out of the tough spot. Zionists did….and with Americans help. I’ll never stop pointing it out.
The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a genocide today. Do they have a right to go invade some weaker nation for their safety? No. That’s not reasonable or acceptable.

I think your POV relies on the theory that, because Jews were being increasingly persecuted in Europe that gives them the right to take a friendly nation by force and subjugate and persecute its people forever…

Maybe let’s try a different tack to common ground.

It feels like the fundamental difference is on the reasonableness of the actions of the Jewish population in the 40s. I count it within reason enough to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a nation, while you count it a foreign invader from day 0(or maybe day 5 or 6).

What would you have had the Jewish European people in the 30s/40s do?

I’d like to rule out ‘wait patiently for legal avenues of immigration’ on account of at least 6million doing that, but…

It depends on the first answer, but if your answer includes the option of seeking refuge amongst the Jewish population in Palestine, then the followup:
What you have had the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?

I kinda feel your POV requires the belief that, again humbly waiting for fair treatment was gonna work out well for them…

In short-The small population of Arab natives along with a native Jewish minority welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the (edit:20’s and early) 30’s while under British rule (but with a date set for their independence by the League of Nations, a date that came and went without ever establishing a Palestinian state). Then in the 40’s (even by mid 30’s)the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally that the Arab natives quickly became the minority, then had all rights stripped by the now well armed invaders that now claimed their land and property…invaders that kept coming by the millions. How is that not an invasion of squatters?
It’s a complete abandonment of the Palestinian Mandate the Brits ruled under, which was allowed internationally after ww1 for the sole purpose of getting Palestine in a position to rule themselves, something the Brits failed to even try then actively sabotaged by supporting the mass immigration of millions of European Jews, and was the biggest possible “fuck off and die” to the Palestinian people that had cooperated fully with the international plan for their independent future that was unceremoniously stripped from them and handed to Israel.
From that point, details don’t matter so much. Invading occupying forces don’t get to whine because the natives won’t just go away and die….at least I’m not listening when they do. Want to stop being attacked, stop murdering innocents and taking land.

I wonder why you think Israel is not so dominant seeing as they already proved repeatedly their military dominance even when their neighbors band together. Not one of the countries you mentioned has an advanced military, they are last gen at best, really two or more generations behind, and have third world resources not trillions to spend. Iraq proved that advanced weapons beat numbers hands down every single time. Unless Iran gets a nuke capable of getting through the highest levels of missile defense on the planet, their “neighbors” (Palestines allies) pose no actual threat to Israel and a pretty minor threat to the expansionist settlers invading Palestine.

I never ignored any rolls of the neighbors supporting, arming, and instigating unrest…but those roles are minuscule compared to the actions of Israel. Nothing recruits for Hamas like the Israeli army. Nothing creates more terrorists than murderous settlers. No other factor has 1% the effect that Israel’s own actions do in creating enemies.
Murderous expansionist settlers should be eliminated with prejudice immediately. They are the biggest factor driving Israel’s murderous regime to murder more innocents.
If Israel acted civilly instead of treating the natives like the Nazis treated them, its neighbors couldn’t easily convince angry teens to pick up guns and shoot Israelis. Give the Palestinians something to lose, or they’ll have nothing to lose, a chip on their shoulder, and a clear enemy responsible for their plight. This is the official recipe for a terrorist.

Blaming the neighbors is like claiming N Carolina is RESPONSIBLE for all shootings in N Y because some guns used are procured there…nonsense. They are complicit, but minimally so. It’s the shooters motives you need to look at, not the store they use. Why are they so ready to sacrifice their lives to just shoot or throw rocks AT Israel (99/100 times hitting nothing)? Because they have nothing to lose but life in an ever shrinking ghetto ruled over by a foreign racist regime that wants them just gone and is more than happy to starve children to death and bomb refugee camps to accomplish that goal.
The neighbors didn’t invade, expel, ghettoize, and gleefully murder the Palestinian people, that was Israel.

Blaming the victims is not an argument that will win many over…and no question the Palestinian people are the TRUE and only victims.

Where are the European countries now…the same ones that facilitated the Jewish invasion should be obligated to enforce the borders, and/or take the Palestinian refugees and free them from the ghetto/prison Israel keeps them in….but none are.

Side note- I keep hearing people who support Palestinians described as anti semitic. It bears noting that European Jews, the VAST majority of Israelis, are NOT Semitic…but all Palestinians are. Being pro-Israel is actually and factually anti-Semitic.

I disagree with you on the "Zionists are all squatters" and related bits, but on the whole you've characterized alot of what is happening correctly. I can not accept though that 1930s and 40s Jewish Europeans seeking refuge amongst an existing community of Jewish Palestinians was the 'invasion' that Arab narratives claim it as.


That's also largely academic in the sense of what will happen. Israel is NOT so dominant that they can easily defeat Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Jordan or Saudi Arabia individually, let alone should they join forces. Perhaps more importantly, regardless of what the true comparison of military strength is, the neighbouring nations mentioned are NOT convinced. Al Jazeera spent the first two weeks after the attack crowing about how this proved how weak and ineffective Israel truly is and harolded the beginning of the end for them.

My two predictions:
1. Israel will continue to do anything they deem necessary to ensure the attack in October is viewed by Iran and the Arab world as another Naqba, rather than a victory.
2. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran and to lesser degrees Jordan and Saudi will continue channeling weapons and support to any and all militant groups near Israel(mostly Palestine) to encourage and ensure they continue launching attacks into Israeli territory in the same continuous effort they have for the last decades.

The worst losers in it, as have been for the last decades you've noted, will continue to be the Palestinian people. Angry young Palestinians will be armed , trained and recruited with foreign money to attack the Israeli 'aggressor'. Thus leading to Israeli reprisal, more dead Palestinians and more angry young recruits.


I think my biggest point of difference with you is I'm not content to ignore the absolutely enormous role of other nations than Israel in the plight of the Palestinian people.

Hamas took over the Gaza Strip after a brief civil war back in 2006 / 2007 . Before that Fatah was a major Palestinian political party that began in 1965 as the Palestinian National Liberation Movement. Fatah wanted to negotiate back to the 67 boundaries.

Hamas – Does not recognize Israel, but accepts a Palestinian state on 1967 borders
Fatah – Recognizes Israel, wants to build a state on 1967 borders






Israel should stop advancing and leave it to the Palestine to find and and capture Hamas.
To pressure this no aid to Palestine. Their desperation will weed out Hamas.

Entirely one sided misleading propaganda.

It completely ignores and glosses over the millions of armed Jewish invaders that took over what’s now the ever expanding Israel, outnumbering the less well armed and unsupported Palestinians, quickly creating an apartheid state with inhuman treatment of the now minority native population displaced by European Jews that had no intention of sharing the land they had stolen from the native inhabitants with England’s and America’s blessing, nor of keeping to the borders they agreed to.

So much history was intentionally deleted or completely misrepresented here it’s more misinformation than informative.
The Palestinian people were subjugated by the Turks, then the British, and now by the genocidal Zionists.

The argument here is like if you imagine America has essentially no military at all having just won independence from Britain in 1948, and the French demanded 1/2 of Louisiana as it was originally a French nation and they suffered greatly in the war, including of course New Orleans, and Canada offered them 25% which they agree to, America said “hell no, why should we hand over our land to foreign invaders?”, and now America is blamed for France’s brutal invasion and unending dehumanization of and inhuman war crimes against and brutal subjugation and imprisonment of the people of the entire Louisiana territory that France now claims, with sights on more expansion.

*lies

No, dummy, learn to read…YOU need a narrative of which the graphic visual death is just an incidental part to not be in flagrant, intentional violation of sift rules.

I personally posted the no snuff rule to your profile page, you know undeniably that you are intentionally violating it because you want to show Muslims acting horrifically and pretend it’s happening in a vacuum by offering no other information besides graphic murders.

You should be banned, you only want to ignore guidelines to try to post your false narratives, usually failing miserably.

That you are fighting to keep this snuff propaganda posted (despite it now being age blocked) despite multiple attempts to ban you for intentional violations of sift rules proves you only come here to abuse and are thumbing your nose at the entire community and our rules.

Again, you should be banned…I’ve never said that before, but you have completely lost your shit and all self control since Trump was indicted.

Without a newsworthy narrative, this is pure unadulterated rule violating snuff.

Even YouTube put it behind an age and graphic warning wall, and they allow anything.

I see the underlying narrative…Israeli=innocent victim / Palestinian=murderous monster. By posting the one sided propaganda put out by the Israeli Defense Force it was blatantly obvious to those of us who can think, and conspicuously absent at the same time.

You know full well I think for myself, unlike you who needs any bit of (miss)“information” you’ve ever thought you had fed to them by hyper biased outlets to even grasp the nonsense you believe. You cannot, not once ever, answer a question about any one of your random claims unless the MAGA machine provides you one…and those are always 100% incorrect twaddle. That’s why you disappear in shame at least once a week unable to defend or even explain your utter insanity.

Yes Bob. I learned to form my own opinions and think for myself in first grade. Critical thinking was taught to us quite young. My school was quite advanced and we won the national academic championship in almost every category every year.
You have yet to try. Take your own advice and learn to think…you need to leave the cult FIRST.

@dag and @lucky760…please add my name to the siftquisition request…this is now undeniably intentional. Rules must matter.

Oh shit!! Sydney Powell has pleaded guilty to election interference and 6 other charges and agreed to testify against Trump this morning. So now the main architect of the fake elector scheme admits they illegally tried to steal the presidency through multiple frauds directed by Trump himself.

Her trial started tomorrow. She must now testify fully and truthfully or she’s going away for decades.

She has the goods, she was instrumental in multiple election fraud schemes for Trump and has the evidence. This is what’s known as a “death knell” (you probably say “death knell”) for Trump and all his codefendents. They should have taken the plea deal for probation like she did…now that offer is likely off the table, they’ve got the #1 perp who has all the evidence, they don’t need the little fish now, or Trump…they can go away for decades now. 😂

EDIT: Trump changed his tune now saying “I’m willing to go to prison to bring democracy back to our country” apparently not realizing he’s admitting he and MAGA are the biggest threat to democracy our nation has ever known. It also ignores that he’s taking tens of millions from his cultists fighting his inescapable future of going to prison to help repair our democracy. He’s at least finally come to the realization that he will spend his final days in a cage….now you just need to realize it.

But yeah…all from reading cereal boxes, so just pretend it isn’t happening.

Bonus- Huckabee Sanders’ “lecterngate” scandal is getting bigger. Now, on top of stealing $19000 for a girls trip and covering it up with a fake lectern purchase, she’s also caught red handed attempting to change public records in a felonious attempt to falsely claim the GOP was reimbursing the state (but emails proved that it was changed well after the theft was discovered.)
There’s also now a bipartisan investigation into anything her back room changes to FOIA covered up, because it’s now clear even to Republicans that she was just hiding her own theft and criminality by removing government transparency.

She’s likely going to be removed from office and charged, just more MAGA criminality.

, MAGA Shaman and the other treasonous idiots, and the morons you post talking about them are your boys, you gullible fool. (Why do you always capitalize the word tool…because it’s your identity?).
😂 You don’t think I’m actually wasting my time watching your idiotic propaganda trolls troll for their home studios, do you? You don’t think I’m gullible enough to believe their conveniently edited sound clips represent reality, do you?
I don’t trust a word a MAGgot says, and it’s never been a mistake to not trust you.
Silly boy. 😂

As far as damage to the nation, Jan 6 was worse. 9/11 brought us together, unfortunately our Republican leader took advantage of that and lied and took us to war with the country that tried to kill his daddy, not the Saudis that attacked our country. The exact same Saudis that Trump now cozies up to and sells classified top secrets to for billions in bribes to his son in law/daughter and rents his properties to at 10 times market value, often renting entire floors for months with no occupants, but no, it’s not a bribe, nooooo. Attacking the wrong people brought us apart again.

Remember, republicans voted to forget 9/11 and its victims, defunding the funds that support and care for them. Jon Stewart shamed them out of their defund 9/11 funds plans. They sure think Jan 6 is more important.

Obama taking out the Saudi leader of the Saudi terrorist organization brought us back together temporarily.

The Jan 6 insurrection and failed coup attempt by a terroristic political party nearly ended America, and has divided the country to near civil war since. Internal terrorist enemies are far more dangerous than foreign powers.

More people died in 9/11. The MAGA response to Covid proved American deaths don’t bother you one whit, completely ignoring the 500000-750000 deaths caused directly by Trump’s lack of policy or support for sane public health measures (turns out he went anti mask after trying one once but it smeared his clown makeup badly and he refused to ever wear one again!).
More damage was done to the union on Jan 6. Well over $500000000 in direct costs for Jan 6 too….before investigations, prosecutions, and incarceration, so make that $750000000 and the continuing possibility of dissolving the Union before it’s done.

Note- I addressed every nonsensical accusation you made. You failed to address any I made against you and instead just whined and rage posted unrelated nonsense. This is typical.

“Both sides to blame”…who last balanced the budget, bob? Clinton.

And who took a surplus that had been lowering the debt and turned it into a doubling of the national debt and recession/depression in 8 short years?
Who just added $8 trillion to the debt in 4?
All Republicans.
The one thing the last 3 Republican presidents have is starting with an economic boom and causing a recession.
It’s just utter nonsense that republicans are better at the economy, they destroy it every single time they get control, then Democrats rebuild.

BTW, @bobknight33…Miami has over double the murder rate of San Francisco.
Jacksonville has nearly 3 times the murder rate of San Francisco and double the national average for car theft.
Tampa is similarly awful.
All worse than SF.
Failed MAGA policies at work. 😂

No sir.
Menendez was caught with cash and gold, seemingly from local businessmen, but not yet a smoking gun proving it was from bribes. Thanks to Republicans rewriting the rules on bribery to protect the Trumps, he got off last time. He might again.

Trump was caught with hundreds of stolen top secret documents after twice swearing he had returned every classified document he ever took….with HIS fingerprints on them, and those of his assistants, foreigners, press, likely even random visitors to Maralago that found them (definitely photos of that). His son in law was caught selling classified info to Saudi Arabia for $2 billion he still has. His daughter took $36 million in bribes from China during trade negotiations she still has. Trump made deals with multiple foreign nations to use his properties at way above market value like the LIV tour as a thanks for protecting the prince from murder charges, many going unused but paid for like entire floors in his hotels rented out for months or years but never occupied by the Saudis…there’s way more evidence of Trump bribery than Menendez, and Menendez is certainly guilty based on the evidence …but with mountains of red handed evidence on 91 charges and dozens of convictions already you still think there’s nothing on Trump, because you refuse to see. There is none so blind..

Hilarious. The left thinks it’s shit doesn’t stink?!? 😂 Just more silly projection, every single accusation is an admission, friendo.

The worst kind of person to hear from is a cultist propagandist that refuses to consider reality if it might hurt their cult or its rapist charity thief, liar, fraud, and total failure of a businessman they call leader (all already proven in court so not libel or slander) and constantly regurgitates the ridiculous debunked lies he’s been told to believe without ever investigating their veracity. This describes you, sir.

Conversely, I posted the news of Menendez being indicted, and showed you how this as yet unproven criminal behavior is treated by the left, like criminal behavior unacceptable in leadership…unlike how like criminal violent treasonous coup behaviors, stealing top secret highly classified military dossiers, attempted election fraud, rape, bribery by foreign governments (exponentially more than here to himself and his family), another attempted election fraud, massive tax fraud, illegally profiting from the office by directing government business to his businesses, stealing campaign donations, etc (91 more felonies and counting) are treated by the right. There’s way more evidence against Trump on each and every one of these charges, and dozens of convictions already, but you just deny it all because it’s inconvenient, not because there’s a shred of evidence to support you.

With infinitely less evidence, the left is calling for Menendez’s removal because even the appearance of impropriety from leadership hurts the nation, but for the right that’s unthinkable, it’s what’s good for Trump that always comes first, what’s good for the individual politician second, what’s good for their family third, what’s good for their donors fourth…the nation isn’t on the list anymore so they intend to shut it down again with no thought to the cost or harm or hardships that will cause.

But let’s get past your complete blind spot about Trump…compare the response to Santos. Now what’s your excuse for the diametrically opposed responses? Why does the right continue to stand with thief, liar, and fugitive Santos when there’s zero question about his guilt on a dozen charges?

BTW- Trump’s lawyer, Habba, says it’s just fake news, not one bit real but a pure fake distraction from Hunter Biden (who himself is a distraction from her client).
So what’s your choice…he’s a total criminal with overwhelming proof or it’s a fake distraction like Trump says?

Wow.
Chesebro, indicted former constitution attorney for Trump, actually hired a court reporter and prepared transcripts of the meetings of the fake electors, and filed that transcript in his efforts to move his case to federal court.
Not smart. 🤦‍♂️

Oooohhh!…another bonus…In his filings to remove his case to federal court, he and Powell have basically claimed they only gave legal advice Trump specifically asked for, so it doesn’t matter that they advised him to try blatantly illegal actions to steal the presidency after he lost the election.
Officially blaming Trump as the master and architect of the highly illegal fraudulent elector scheme to defraud the nation.
The good part is Trump filed the exact same argument in his effort to escape state court…apparently without reading it because he just admitted he was in charge and the one asking how to get away with this election fraud scheme he designed.

a portion of this nation lives in an alternate reality and its completely insane

Jenna Ellis, Trump’s lawyer, sure sounds ready to flip, and she would have some good inside info.

Remember her, she’s been one of the loudest of his lawyers about him stiffing her on her legal fees….like he has every lawyer and most others he owes money to.

Now in an interview she said she wouldn’t vote for him because he’s such a malignant narcissist that he claims to have never done anything wrong in his life.

I wonder what changed for her. She said nearly the same thing in 2016, but then became one of his biggest cheerleaders. I guess you can only get raped by the team so many times before you become disillusioned.

Bonus - Holy sheep shit, Trump’s latest disastrous interview he admitted his lawyers told him he lost and he was doing illegal things trying to overturn the election but he decided if they disagreed with his plan they must be RINOs or just bad lawyers so he chose to listen to other people telling him what he wanted to hear because he had already made the decision himself that he would insist he had won the election early on election eve when less than half the votes had been counted despite his staff and election officials and reality telling him otherwise and insisting he stop.
“You know who I listened to…I listened to myself.”

Basically he just plead guilty to all the Georgia charges on national TV and admitted it was all his idea. I know he’s trying to influence the jury pool, but we all expect him to be claiming total innocence, no one expected him to just admit his total guilt. 😂

Second bonus- it seems that one of Trump’s assistants at Maralago (with no security clearance) was often given instructions and to do lists written on the back of highly classified documents from the whitehouse. Trump was using them as scrap paper to be tossed in the trash after use! She kept them and turned them over to the FBI after the first subpoena (that Trump ignored then fought) so Jack Smith has them. D’OH!