I like Koko, but am wary of company that can pull one's arms out of one's sockets.

>> ^budzos:
It's also a compound term. Gorillas are now well-known to create their own compound term from two previously unrelated concepts, which is fairly definitive example of linguistic cognition. Funnily enough the compound terms created for things the gorillas dislike usually involve feces.


Note to the keepers, no German porn DVDs

>> ^Boise_Lib:

>> ^rottenseed:
intelligence is a spectrum

single-celled organisms-->bacteria-->people from Arizona-->...-->cockroaches-->...-->gorillas-->dolphins-->humans

Now, now rottenseed. There are smart people in Arizona--and Idaho.


The "smart" people in Arizona are the exception, not the rule. There's something about desert dwelling people in general. I think the sun does something to their brain (at least during the summer).

>> ^rottenseed:

intelligence is a spectrum

single-celled organisms-->bacteria-->people from Arizona-->...-->cockroaches-->...-->gorillas-->dolphins-->humans


Now, now rottenseed. There are smart people in Arizona--and Idaho.

>> ^bareboards2:

My favorite Koko story....
"They" say that gorillas don't actually use language, they are mimics and learn "make this sign, get this".
The scientists were concerned about Koko's mental health, so they put a rhesus monkey in with her, for company. Koko did NOT like the monkey -- loud, stole her food, etc. She would sign "feces monkey" when she saw it -- in other words, called the monkey a "shit." She made that up to describe her feelings.
We are an egocentric species, thinking we are so different....


It's also a compound term. Gorillas are now well-known to create their own compound term from two previously unrelated concepts, which is fairly definitive example of linguistic cognition. Funnily enough the compound terms created for things the gorillas dislike usually involve feces.

My favorite Koko story....

"They" say that gorillas don't actually use language, they are mimics and learn "make this sign, get this".

The scientists were concerned about Koko's mental health, so they put a rhesus monkey in with her, for company. Koko did NOT like the monkey -- loud, stole her food, etc. She would sign "feces monkey" when she saw it -- in other words, called the monkey a "shit." She made that up to describe her feelings.

We are an egocentric species, thinking we are so different....

>> ^quantumushroom:

Don't show her Rise of the Planet of the Apes!


I think I'll suggest that to them.

What, no upvote qm? Don't you like the cute, signing gorilla?

I really love the paintings that Michael did before he died.

http://www.koko.org/world/art.html

The lines were probably spelled out in some jibberish to help Conan pronounciate them, but he did end up actually making sense (kinda) in finnish. Remember the pretty Estonian girls saying "kaksteist kuud"? For an English speaker you could spell it "cocks taste good" to get almost the same pronounciation.

Here is how the lines would be spelled in Finnish:

Huomio Suomen televisiojohtajat! Täällä minä, teidän punatukkainen jumala Conan O'brien! Vaadin, että Conan-sarja lähetetään Suomessa! Ellei, sieppaan teidän koko sillivaraston ja annan sen ruotsalaisille ravinnoksi! Teillä on kaksikymmentäneljä tuntia blaa-blaa-blaa-blaa...

Can you read it now? Could Coco?

>> ^BicycleRepairMan:

That didnt sound anything like Finnish, can someone from Findland determine if he actually read the correct thing in Finnish? If he did, its pretty impressive either way, because Finnish have an insane amount of double consonants (and vocals), so its hard for any non-finnish person to read out loud, even for a joke.

In reply to this comment by EDD:
Also see my all-time favorite (and terribly underrated) example of animal emotion on the Sift:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Koko-and-All-Ball


i loved that. thank you for sharing

Also see my all-time favorite (and terribly underrated) example of animal emotion on the Sift:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Koko-and-All-Ball

Dang! I didn't know Koko the clown had so much soul.

>> ^BillOreilly:
I felt the same way when Obama was elected.


Awww...poor guy. I guess Bill-o, the conservative ape, is sad because he lost his little buddy, All GOP, when it was run over by the Democracy Truck!

Poor Koko, at least he'll still have his nipples

>> ^imstellar28:
Two animals can either breed or they can't

Mules can VERY rarely breed with horses, and we only know this because we force them to associate in captivity. How do you intend to exhaustively determine if any other great ape species CAN (not does, CAN) breed with humans? What if it's possible with chimps, say 0.003% of pairings, would that mean that chimps must be given full legal rights? If it it does why? If it doesn't why not?

Do you think bipedality is arbitrary?

Bipedal also has gray areas, but even if it did not it could still be arbitrary relative to rights or moral relevance. If you can explain WHY or HOW bipedality is relevant to sentience, then it would not be arbitrary.

There is only one sentient species on earth. Do you argue that?

Yes, you have an A=A argument here. If you define sentient as human, and say humans are sentient it is mathematically valid, it just does not happen to be meaningful. Until you can point out WHY we can call humans (all humans?) sentient, then you have not really said anything.

What makes you morally distinct from a fetus, or koko the gorilla? If you can't answer that question, in a way that works for the general case, your assesmet of who is morally relivant is completely arbitrary, which is fine with me, since that was my point to begin with.