What kind of bullshit is this?
Any of these crimes he claims are happening would be incredibly easy and simple to verify, yet we have zero evidence that it's true, not a single case.
If people were being bussed from poll to poll, you can be guaranteed it would have been recorded and reported. Sanders people were on the lookout for just that kind of thing.
Having a fake ID card doesn't put your name on the voting rolls, so his contention that people are getting fake IDs and voting with them is patently ridiculous.
The only thing this video proves is that democrats can be idiots too, and can make idiotic claims just like republicans.

It could possibly be a state specific requirement I have not bought firearms in another state. NJ has VERY heavily regulated gun laws.

If they wanted to implement some of the laws we have in NJ in other states, again, I'm fine with that. Just not citizen to citizen. They should have to own a Firearms ID card before you can sell it.

I want to believe there are ways to defeat it democratically but the only way to get enough power in the system in my opinion is to already be wealthy. Perfect Timing is this video: http://videosift.com/video/Wall-Street-Deregulation-Coming-Soon-TYT

Democratically elected democrats voting AGAINST banking regulation? What the what?

Also about the "war" that's exactly the point I'm making. There wouldnt' be any "army" for America to defeat. It would just be it's citizens. There doesn't have to be a "military victory" for the insurgents. My point was that insurgents on their own preventing people from going to work, causing problems with the nations banking systems, whatever, would be enough to make all the wealthy people who run things much worse off. Then that would make the government much worse off because those wealthy people would simply relocate their businesses to more stable environments.

I don't think the US will become a dictatorship. It's going to be a plutocracy. That's all it is now and unfortunately the way it looks all it will be going forward for a very long time.

I hope I'm proven wrong I just don't see any hope anymore personally. I'm not going to rise up or whatever against the government because my life is pretty okay. But I also won't be fed garbage from the the world and told it's ice cream and be forced to look back at the world and say "GREAT ICE CREAM!"

If you are truly curious I hope you'll read everything.

TLDR Post Inc:

It's basically pragmatism and the slippery slope. You're making a registry of all the citizens who own guns. I mean have you ever applied for your firearms license before? Have you ever purchased a handgun? It's pretty crazy.

I wanted to purchase a handgun about 10 years ago after I got held up. It took me over 6 months to get my permit. Then it took me about another month to be able to purchase a handgun.

The Process:
In order to get your firearms id card you have to apply for it. Part of the process involved me having a sit down "evaluation" with a detective that was basically an interrogation for about 30 minutes.

Then once that detective says "this guys not crazy" He takes his form and all my information and mails it to the FBI. Then I had to wait about six months for the FBI to say "this guys not crazy and/or a terrorist.

When I have my Firearms ID card I can buy a shotgun or a rifle if I want that's no problem. But if I want to buy a handgun (which I did) I have to go back to get a handgun permit. Luckily since I was applying for my firearms permit they also gave me one (read one) permit to buy a handgun. I could buy one handgun; If I wanted more I had to apply for ANOTHER permit. Not another Firearms ID Card just another Handgun permit.

So I take my permit and I purchase said gun. I can't purchase the gun after 5:00 PM because the NIC office over at the FBI closes and they have to call it in. Even AFTER they call it in I still had to wait like 6 days before I could pick it up.

I receive a copy of the permit (and a receipt) , the dealer gets a copy, and the last part gets sent to the FBI. Once the FBI confirms they have a copy of the permit (which includes the serial # that is on multiple parts of the gun) then and only then am I allowed to pickup my firearm.

So even if I sold it to someone everyone would know know who it belonged to beforehand.

I'm not sure how much more gun control you can have. The "gun" that needs the most "control" are handguns because they are used in almost all gun related crimes if you look at the stats.

I wont' get into hypothetical situations about how citizens could perform those checks or whatever. I just want to show how regulated things are already. The idea that I could purchase like 10 handguns and then re-sell them all to someone else and NEVER have it traced back to me seems almost impossible. Heck I doubt I could even get approved to own that many handguns!

Also:

I'm not a "giant conspiracy" kind of person. But I feel like with the way government has been going with Guantanamo, stop and frisk, not really enforcing a lot of anti-trust laws, not really prosecuting some of the big banks responsible for what happened, etc etc etc I just feel like there really an upward swing for government control and collusion with protecting their own interests and not the interests of the people.

I don't see the government as an instrument of the people anymore it just seems to be wealthy people patting each other on the back.

What happened in Boston really upset me where people were just pulled out of there houses at gunpoint because there "could be" a terrorist nearby.

I believe that Obama has a good reason for trying to put these tools in place and he has no motive behind it he is just trying to protect the American People in his own way. But I don't believe gun control will help at all and all it will do is put more of a hindrance on law abiding citizens. I'd equate these laws to Anti-Piracy solutions? Ala Sims3 and Diablo etc etc. It just punishes the actual customer NOT the criminal.

If you told me there was a way to ensure program the registry of gun owners could only be searched if the striations from a bullet were scanned that was used in a crime or something like that I'd be fine with it. But there really is no way to do that.

Sorry it was long but it's not really something I can just say something short.

I'm sure people will says "Well what are your guns going to do against tanks and helicopters and xyz xyz". First I'll point to Iraq and Afghanistan and how well those "wars" went. Everyone can agree it was a disaster and we probably made a lot of terrorists by just killing people innocent or not. The same thing would happen here in America.

Would the government actually TRY to take over? I don't' believe so because it's not in our best financial interests. Everyone wants to stay wealthy and some sort of civil war would be horrible for our economy. But I believe over time constantly just eroding our rights will just lead to that. People got pulled out of their homes at gunpoint and screamed at by police in boston and they were just like "Well the police are just trying to keep us safe!" I just find that creepy.

There's a saying blah blah blah doesn't go out with a bang it happens with a whimper. I'm not going to make myself look smart by googling the quote.

Anyway that's my whole post sorry if it's long but I'm tired. I would have put it in the discussion section but I'm not at the appropriate star level.

There may well have been evil intent in these voter ID laws, and in fact, they may be doing their best to reduce the voter rolls with unfair voting hours. I'm not defending those tactics.

$30 every few 5-10 years is trivial by any measure. However, in researching the topic, I discovered that in Wisconsin, you can already get a free ID for voting purposes: "If you are a U.S. citizen, will be at least 18 years of age by the next election, and would like a Wisconsin ID card to vote (although it's not currently required), please check the ID for FREE box when completing the MV3004 (Wisconsin Identification Card (ID) application) or when applying online" http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/drivers/apply/idcard.htm

In the case of someone who does not have a birth certificate, there are processes in place to resolve that. You do not lose your identity when you lose your identification papers, it's just a pain to fix it. In this case, the state lost the papers, and it is the responsibility of the state to re-certify the birth of the person in question. Most likely it can be done with a court appearance and a few sworn statements, if there's no other way of proving identity.

Even if the intent behind this bill is evil and unjust, the requirement of identification at the voting booth is neither unreasonable, nor unjustly burdensome. The _burden_ is the same for everyone, a half-day in the DMV.

You're simple, vapid, and shallow. Are we having a dialog yet?>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Here's a quick quiz... Two activist groups are accused of being "astroturf". One is the Tea Party - which is accused of being a bought & paid for astroturf campaign of the right. The other is Occupy Wall Street - which is accused of being a bought & paid for astroturf campaign of the left.
Occupy Wall Street is guilty of documented cases of arson, assault, drug use, drug dealing, fraud, murder, public disturbance, rape, sexual assault, sedition, suicide, theft, vandalism, property destruction, bigotry, police harassment, and various other felonies and misdemeanors. The Tea Party is guilty of ZERO documented cases of any crime. Sounds like OWS is far more similar to the Taliban than the Tea Party.
The simple fact is that neolibs want a bad guy to demonize. Neolibs and leftists in general are simple, shallow, and vapid - very much like Sorkin and his on-air wet dream that he calls a 'show'. To these narrow-minded creatures, it is unacceptable to see honest, well-intentioned, reasonable everyday citizens opposing their radical agenda items. The Tea Party as a whole has been inoffensive and has as simple, basic message: cut spending. They aren't racists, or violent. They aren't anything close to the Taliban. But truth and reality don't matter to blinkered neolibs who NEED... who desperately CRAVE a man in a cloak with a twirling moustache to hate...
Can't these 20 million disenfranchised voters just pay 10 bucks or so to go get a photo ID that would allow them to vote?
That's not the point. A large portion of the so-called 'disenfranchised' are illegal aliens who should not be allowed to vote. Voter ID laws prevent illegal aliens from voting. Such a simple, common-sense law cannot be allowed by the liberal left as they'd lose out on literally millions of illegal alien votes. Protesting voter ID laws has nothing to do with "disenfranchisement". It has everything to do with preventing illegal voting activity - which all civilized nations do rigorously. I have to have a voter ID card to vote, and display an ID. It in no way disenfranchises ANYONE except those who shouldn't be voting in the first place. Everyone who should legally be allowed to vote already has all the ID that any ID law requires.

Here's a quick quiz... Two activist groups are accused of being "astroturf". One is the Tea Party - which is accused of being a bought & paid for astroturf campaign of the right. The other is Occupy Wall Street - which is accused of being a bought & paid for astroturf campaign of the left.

Occupy Wall Street is guilty of documented cases of arson, assault, drug use, drug dealing, fraud, murder, public disturbance, rape, sexual assault, sedition, suicide, theft, vandalism, property destruction, bigotry, police harassment, and various other felonies and misdemeanors. The Tea Party is guilty of ZERO documented cases of any crime. Sounds like OWS is far more similar to the Taliban than the Tea Party.

The simple fact is that neolibs want a bad guy to demonize. Neolibs and leftists in general are simple, shallow, and vapid - very much like Sorkin and his on-air wet dream that he calls a 'show'. To these narrow-minded creatures, it is unacceptable to see honest, well-intentioned, reasonable everyday citizens opposing their radical agenda items. The Tea Party as a whole has been inoffensive and has as simple, basic message: cut spending. They aren't racists, or violent. They aren't anything close to the Taliban. But truth and reality don't matter to blinkered neolibs who NEED... who desperately CRAVE a man in a cloak with a twirling moustache to hate...

Can't these 20 million disenfranchised voters just pay 10 bucks or so to go get a photo ID that would allow them to vote?

That's not the point. A large portion of the so-called 'disenfranchised' are illegal aliens who should not be allowed to vote. Voter ID laws prevent illegal aliens from voting. Such a simple, common-sense law cannot be allowed by the liberal left as they'd lose out on literally millions of illegal alien votes. Protesting voter ID laws has nothing to do with "disenfranchisement". It has everything to do with preventing illegal voting activity - which all civilized nations do rigorously. I have to have a voter ID card to vote, and display an ID. It in no way disenfranchises ANYONE except those who shouldn't be voting in the first place. Everyone who should legally be allowed to vote already has all the ID that any ID law requires.

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>> ^MarineGunrock:

It's only sane to think that one should have to prove eligibility to vote in a certain district.

Sure, but why does the proof have to be a driver's license or state ID?

Right now in Ohio you can use any photo ID (including things like student ID, or employee ID badges), or alternatively you can use a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or any government document that includes your name and address.

They want to change the law here as well, so that it has to be a driver's license, state ID, passport, or military ID.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
It's not really a roadblock, though. ... Drivers licenses and ID cards come at a price, but where ever this is gives the ID FOR FREE if you need it to vote.


Again, it most certainly is a roadblock. First, you need to know about the change in the law, apparently at least 2 weeks in advance. Second, you need to get the documentation required for a state ID, which may require a trip to the courthouse and more fees. Third you need to find the time to go stand in line during business hours on weekdays, which isn't even easy for someone like me with a flexible work schedule, a car, and no kids. Fourth, you need to fill out all the forms, answer all the questions, and know that the only way to make it free is to check a special box on the application form, because they won't tell that to you.

Oh, and the next bit of news I've heard this evening is that now Wisconsin (which is where this is from, BTW), is now closing down the DMV's in 10 districts, reportedly mostly the ones in heavily Democratic districts. To compensate for the reduction in service, they're lengthening the hours of DMV's in some other, more Republican, districts to make sure Republicans don't have any problems voting deal with the overflow...

For the most part though, my question is what problem is this supposed to solve? In Ohio there have been next to zero cases of even attempted voter fraud, and none successful.

Surely you concede that doing this will result in some people, who are eligible to vote, trying to vote legally, will be prevented from voting. Why is that necessary?

Even if I assume this is being done out of real concern about fraud, this is like arresting everyone in a neighborhood because someone thinks maybe someone in there could have committed a crime, even though they don't have evidence to prove that a crime was even committed in the first place...

Seems pretty silly to me. You need a mailing address in the district and state in which you're going to vote. So.....if they mail you a one time use card that they collect when you go to vote with enough information to match it up to a state issued form of a identification. What else needs to be done?

If they use your social security number you can't run around and vote all over the place turning in those one use cards from multiple addresses. They either don't mail to multiple addresses for one SSN or they catch you using multiple mailed cards on the same SSN.

Getting a state ID is pretty painless (not a driver's license but just an ID card).

Seems like they are adding cost, hurdles and what not to discourage people from voting. There has always been a healthy group of people who can vote but choose not to vote, whom also never get picked for jury duty (in my area at least). So.......if it works similarly they are also cutting down the people who will be selected as possible jury pool members by discouraging them from voting because they seem to pull it directly off the registered voters lists.

Can't think of a good reason why they would make the process so labor intensive. It's not like DMV/BMVs and what not don't get a shitload of people already going in for various reasons....can't think of a single time I haven't had to wait in line. So if the ID is free, they are adding a lot of unnecessary work versus using records they already have to mail out one-time use cards or some other form to at least verify the guy receives mail at that address.

It's not really a roadblock, though. It's only sane to think that one should have to prove eligibility to vote in a certain district. Drivers licenses and ID cards come at a price, but where ever this is gives the ID FOR FREE if you need it to vote.

boring, they all had answers to her questions and the tape stops when he explains the process which she sums up as unreasonable.

Her arguments all lead to the answer that you need to prove who you are, and if you can't you can't vote... it seems like people might have trouble with it but there are avenues to seek.

and of course its an extra step (which may keep people from voting - although i know i register to vote and get an ID card sans picture via a website for my county...and i absentee ballot anyway), but thats obvious without the video

she must have a new computer!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Id Card Printers, Hid Proximity Cards, HID Proximity Card, Evolis Printer, video' to 'redacted' - edited by KnivesOut

Maybe it's your use of punctuation or lack thereof. Maybe it's the use of Fragmented sentences but I can't understand jack shit that you wrote.

I've been part of crowd control, and it's impossible. But how about a peaceful mob, impossible too?

Even a peaceful mob can be troublesome to deal with. It's not because they are all angry at something. Half of the time it's because the majority of the mob is fucking confused, caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, or hangers on to something they shouldn't be hanging on to.

The chaos that you see? It's a mixture of a few people who know what they are doing, and a many more people who are just caught up in the bullshit.

I see something wrong with this video. Police officers who are not identifying themselves. Perhaps it's just in the United States but an Officer must identify themselves during an arrest. How else will the rest of the public know that they are officers of the law? A coat, or jacket isn't going to cut it. That's why cops have badges and ID cards.

>> ^packo:

>> ^Boise_Lib:
>> ^mentality:
Was this before or after the protests turned violent on Saturday, including the torching of 2 police cars? If this is somehow linked then the arrested deserve no sympathy.

"Somehow linked"? How about if the only link is in the cop's minds?


so the trial must happen before the person is in custody...
GREAT
I'm gonna become a criminal then, because thats in NO way enforceable
ESPECIALLY when dealing with mob mentality
have you ever had to deal with a mob? I have... how do you tell exactly which ones can come up to you and talk cordially, and which ones are going to start something? and then isn't that decision all in your MIND?
simply put you can't
these cops don't think every individual in the mob is going to start something, but mob mentality takes over, and things can get out of hand real quick...
i see nothing wrong with this video
especially since there are no surrounding facts/information to support this
just because we want the police/government to act reasonably means we don't have to be held to the same regards... OMG, police taking away people in a mob! POLICE STATE!!! POLICE STATE!!! is an unreasonable viewpoint given the content of this video

Maybe they'll integrate a bomb into the cards, so when the state decides you're an enemy they can just press a button and the card will explode and kill you! Or maybe there's a camera installed, which will record everything you see and say! They might even import the mind reading and altering devices used by every other county which has ID cards!

We already have Drivers Licenses (or State ID if you don't drive) and many other identification types, such as passports. And you need these to get a job. Like Paul says, the problem is failure to enforce the laws we already have in place. Although I don't subscribe to Paul's fearmongering in this case, I think a national ID card is a waste of time and will not solve anything.

For this meeting specifically, it was just a proposal and nothing serious is happening yet. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20000758-38.html)