That is much more honest a commercial than I was expecting. I'm sure there may have been a little whitewashing. I'm sure if you go into a McDonald's with a camera crew and let them know you are the director of marketing for McDonalds Canada you are going to get a pretty well made burger. But all in all, this was much more straightforward than I expected. And they have received +1 goodwill.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

I think your unemployment office offers a pretty good slice of the overall picture, at least where female employees are concerned. My theory (if you could call it that) is that women take those jobs because they're used to being underpaid for shit work. They're also used to being treated like shit by people they serve, and to society having a negative view of them in general. And I'm not talking about the experience of a lot of todays pampered little princesses. I'm talking about a deeply embedded genetic instinct. Perhaps the situation of the black employees could be similar.
One thing's for sure, the women in the office you go to aren't there because of some female affirmative action plan, and yet they're still out of balance with the local population.

It's a possibility. And I can't prove one way or another as I could never find any specific information on what I'm about to repeat from others.


The state I am in requires people to work for their food stamps, medical coverage for their kids, any cash they may receive towards rent and other costs. They are called "Work Experience Program" (WEP) workers. When they are categorized into that program, they are basically required to work a fixed amount of hours each month or they get cut off to some extent. For single women these hours are drastically less (I would guess half or more) if they have kids because they would rather them be with their kids than have to pay for daycare. For instance some guy told me he was laid off from a job working for the county, they refused to pay unemployment and they could do so by law. So he didn't have any unemployment to buffer him while he looked for work and he had to go on welfare. Since he was married and had 2 kids, he was eligible for medical coverage on the kids, food stamps, and cash to help cover costs. For that he had to work something like 150 hours each month at Goodwill as a "WEP worker". So basically he was working a full time job and he told me it worked out to under 4 dollars an hour if his kids didn't need any medical stuff...which I will admit medical coverage could be a huge cost if his kids had something bad happen. So there's incentive to find work if you're a man because you're basically getting screwed hard for your time, but you're also required to work so many hours it's hard to find time to look for work unless you do it at night. He said they scheduled hours for him and he could miss hours and make them up on the weekends and sometimes in the evenings, but only if they had work for him and only if he got permission. Otherwise he fell short on his hours and would be potentially booted.

So for a single mother, these hours are cut down to half maybe more because they are expected to work only if they have someone to take care of their kid or while they are in school allowing for time for them to be there when they leave and be there when they get home. Which if they are forced to ride the bus, their hours are going to be even shorter of actual "work". But they would still get the same benefits as the married man from above. Now......there's another program I've heard about from my parents where one of their renter's claimed to be in it after she alluded otherwise. And it was semi-confirmed by a friend of my dad whose mother gets a home health care provider provided to her by the state.

I don't know the name of the program, but it basically puts single women receiving welfare into the role of home health care provider to some degree. Where they go to the senior citizens houses and stay there some portion of the day for some period of each week. Where they do some picking up, organizing, make sure the senior citizen is generally OK as far as they are able to determine and help them with tasks they might be able to do. The friend of my dad...his mom's home health care provider overdosed on pills while she was at his mom's house. Died on the couch. She called him up and told her the lady was dead on her couch and called 911 to tell them...then went to bed. There are suspicions of mine and my parents that these ladies steal drugs from the old folks and use em or sell em....they had problems with a lot of "visitors" at their rental when a lady there claiming to be a "home health care provider" on her application but then later admitted it was a government program...no idea what it's called. I have never heard of a man being in or being asked to be in this program.

So...they have programs which seemed to be tailored to women. I am more likely to believe that they also give preference to women in hiring. I will tell you one thing I did see while I was at those offices though. Young women especially if they are in fairly attractive get treated poorly by a lot of the women there. They also never once had any sort of training program, employment hunting assistance (beyond searching on their system yourself), or anything else to offer or suggest to me when I asked. But I heard them repeatedly tell women they offer programs to help find part-time work....if they are successful or not, I have no idea. I don't know if preference is given to people who have kids or not....didn't go around asking everyone if they had kids.

Did I say the rhetoric is something that sells and is required? It seems when Olbermann went against the grain, it went against him.

I do not know why he was let go, but I am sure that first part of peace and goodwill over money did not help...

>> ^gwiz665:

In violation of NBC news' guidelines which MSNBC is exempt from. This is just posturing by boss Phil Griffin who wants to show who's boss and maybe win goodwill from the other side.


Except Griffin isn't part of doing anything yet, and won't be for another 6mo. This is all old NBC guys, no giant fox/republican conspiracy to be had. Sorry to burst your bubble.

In violation of NBC news' guidelines which MSNBC is exempt from. This is just posturing by boss Phil Griffin who wants to show who's boss and maybe win goodwill from the other side.

I've been let off a few times(I've also never run into an asshole cop in Maine) and was immensely appreciative, as I'm sure the drivers in this video were. This guy could have shown some decorum and gotten the exact same message across without reinforcing all those blatantly cliche'd stereotypes people have of cops and making every other cop look like a fucking imbecile by extension. Assholes like this unceremoniously throw at that goodwill that other professionals in their field have worked so hard to build up with the general populace right into the pooper.

Them getting off without a ticket should not be contingent on him therefore having the right to act like an unimaginative troll. I've had some hilariously sharp cops in the past who were intentionally trolling but doing so ironically, really laying it on thick to the point where there's no question they were taking the piss, and it only further endeared me towards them. This guy though is nothing if not sincere in his absolute dedication to being a giant douche.

@Pprt Well, that's an easy one - sympathy. If they said "we're going there to provide weapons" or something similar, the boat would have been leveled and no one would be taking their side - or far fewer at least. It is conspicuous that we got all that video from the one boat, when it was an entire flotilla (I think people have been playing too much Mass Effect, why not just call it a fleet?). I'm am also suspicious of the video black-out on the Israeli side, of course, they would do far better by playing with open cards, but then so would the US and that's just not gonna happen.

@theali Illegal? What law covers that? "International law" only covers the people who have agreed to it or those who wish to make friends with those who follow it. If I make a "law" that you can't smoke in my house and you still do, I can throw you out - but if I make a law that no smoking can be done anywhere, no one is going to follow it - and they shouldn't, unless they want to be on good terms with me.

Attacking in international waters was indeed a bad move and it's already cost Israel bucket loads of goodwill, although technically the Mediterranean is not "International Waters" (only the Barcelona Convention covers it and that's only for environmental issues.), since the borders are right up to each other - I don't know who has jurisdiction where the attack happened, though.

An illegal act of war - well, depending on who's laws and really, the war was there already. They've been fighting since Israel was made and before.

My point is still, the people on the flotilla should, and likely did, see it coming and they went ahead anyway. If they want to run into the wall, the wall does not carry the sole responsibility when they get hurt.

Anyway, great big mess. It's not going to end until people stop thinking the land is holy - as always, religion is to blame.

Sorry reposting with some edits...

Ok ok, I get that Islam is as fragmented into as many factions as Christianity is, but the simple truth remains; Islam is evolving into a death cult. Never mind the original tennets of peace and goodwill that Islam was founded on. They are just becoming the biggest bully on the playground that can't take criticism or have their territories or ideas impugned in any way. There are way too many Muslims that subscribe to the return of the Mahdi theory and that it can be sped along by creating chaos and death in the world. They also believe that they will be not held accountable for the suffering and even rewarded for the death of non-believers. Even one Muslim who subscribes to this thinking is too many, and free nations need to take as stand against the hate bred by "the truth of Sharia law" as this man puts it. All nations ought to be standing against any hate bred by inflamed ideologies in order to serve their neighbors and protect their hard won common good. Europe is being overrun by this aggressiveness and The US is quaking in it's boots over it (just look at the security paranoia in airports if you don't believe me). Censors remove TV shows that hint at even a small displeasure at the faith that has such contempt for the west (ie. Southpark, not my favorite show but still.), removing the right to speak out against such ideals. I say wake up free nations and be strong against such wantonly hateful ideals. They are a crime and deserve no equivocation.

Ok ok, I get that Islam is as fragmented into as many factions as Christianity is, but the simple truth remains; Islam is evolving into a death cult. Never mind the original tennets of peace and goodwill the Islam was founded on. They are just becoming the biggest bully on the playground that can't take criticism or have thier territories or ideas impugned in any way. There are way too many Muslims that subscribe to the return of the Mahdi theory and that it can be sped along by creating chaos and death in the world. They also believe that they will be not held accountable for the suffering and even rewarded for the death of non-believers. Even one Muslim who subscribes to this thinking is too many, and free nations need to take as stand against the hate bred by "the truth of Sharia law" as this man puts it. All nations ought to be standing against any hate bred by inflamed ideaologies in order to serve thier neighbors and protect their hard won common good. Europe is being overrun by this aggressiveness and The US is quaking in it's boots over it (just look at the security paranoia in airports if you don't believe me) and censors remove TV shows that hint at even a mall displeasure that the faith that has such contempt for the west (ie. Southpark), removing the right to speak out against such ideals. I say wake up free nations and be strong against such wantonly hateful ideals. They are a crime and deserve no equivocation.

http://lyrics.wikia.com/The_Weakerthans:Sun_In_An_Empty_Room

Now that the furniture's returning to its Goodwill home
With dishes in last week's papers, rumours and elections, crosswords, an unending war
That blacken our fingers, smear their prints on every door pulled shut
Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage deposit

Take this moment to decide
If we meant it, if we tried
Or felt around for far too much
From things that accidentally touch

Hands that we nearly hold with pennies for the GST
The shoulders we lean our shoulders into on the subway, mutter an apology
The shins that we kick beneath the table, that reflexive cry
The faces we meet, one awkward beat too long, and terrify

Know that the things we need to say
Have been said already anyway
By parallelograms of light
on walls that we repainted white

Sun in an empty room

Take eight minutes and divide
By ninety million lonely miles
And watch the shadow cross the floor
We don't live here anymore

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1126056.html

One of the obstacles to applying the discovery to all forms of cancer is that the medicine is registered as a patent of an American pharmaceutical company. Tel Aviv University's technology transfer company, Ramot, has secured a usage patent enabling it to develop the drug to treat only breast cancer.

The future development of the drug depends on the goodwill of the American company, or on another company developing a similar substance.

"We really want to develop this drug, but there are some completely non-scientific obstacles," Cohen-Armon said. "I hope the research doesn't fade away because of that."

Uh, abortion jokes.. fun.

I hope choggie will see this as a gesture of goodwill and will behave here in the future. If he does not, the ban is not far behind... again.

Blankfist, that was exactly the kind of thing I wanted to avoid, which is why I tried to kill the poll. I have not been involved in all the things that happened behind the scenes, so I don't think it's fair to punish me for whatever he has done. I only have knowledge of what has happened plainly on the site and I think he did less "bad" than captainplanet420, to take an example. My view can certainly be misguided, I won't deny that, but I did the poll in the best intentions.. and killed it when people started harassing me about it.

I hate drama, but it seems to surround me lately. That'll learn me for putting my junk into a hornet's nest.

>> ^RhesusMonk:
Someday I'm going to write a long treatise here about why this song and this story have very little to do with god's grace and being connected through JC. This is about awe and gratitude. Christians believe there is some force that is doling out goodwill and that we are unwitting and undeserving of this goodwill, unless we respond in a Christian way.

I read a great quote recently: "Christian is a wonderful noun, but a terrible adjective." I have to agree. I think the feeling you're describing, the feeling hinted at by Phipps, is transcendental. As Newton emerged from his cabin that day, and heard the dirge rising up from the hold, something in his brain clicked. No doubt, "Unknown" was sold into bondage exactly on schedule, and so the song did not save him in a meaningful way, but unbeknownst to him, that song did have an effect. Newton began to reconsider his role in things, and left the slave trade. He was a vocal proponent of abolition in England. It would be many, many years before he would put pen to paper and write out Amazing Grace (he experienced his conversion moment in 1748, and composed AG between 1760 and 1770) but nevertheless, the wordless song never truly left him. He chose to share its melody with those who'd never set foot on a slave ship, and found that, somehow, the effect was sustained.

Now everything I've just mentioned can be looked at in a non-Christian context, and it would remain true. It should be said, though, that the presence of Christianity and its memes made it easier for Newton to become aware of just how far he'd strayed in his life. Given the number of unrepentant slave captains who called themselves Christians, it does not necessarily follow that Newton's salvation was due to his turn to Christianity, but it certainly helped. And it also helped all the slaves who would have found passage in the hold of his ship, but did not, thanks to his conversion. Again, Christianity didn't do it, but it was a 'hook' upon which Newton could hang this unsettling feeling in his belly.

Kurt Vonnegut notes much the same in a speech he gave at Clowes Hall in 2007. He starts by pointing out that, while Marx said that 'religion was the opium of the lower classes', he should have been taken literally. Opiates were a wonderful class of drug that numbed the pain, and who knew pain better than the working classes? He continues, "The most spiritually splendid phenomenon of my lifetime is how African-American citizens have maintained their dignity and self-respect, despite their having been treated by white Americans, both in and out of government, and simply because of their skin color, as though they were contemptible and loathsome, and even diseased. Their churches have surely helped them to do that. So there's Karl Marx again. There's Jesus again."

I guess the question is, could John Newton have composed Amazing Grace without believing in the Magic Man Who Lives in the Sky? Maybe. Probably. But it certainly helped.

And seriously, Pennypacker, I've seen your posts elsewhere, and they are always lengthy and difficult to understand the point. And you actually try to drown out the person who was present at the recording, who appears to have valid/interesting information. You offer anecdotal evidence to counter other peoples anecdotal evidence, and then denounce the use of anecdotal evidence. I struggle to see the value in your arguments; it seems like you just prefer to be as contrary as possible, but emotionally neutral, which is really boring to read through.

As a born and raised Mormon, now atheist, I can say this is appears pretty accurate for a fast and testimony, and the whole point of the meeting (since the church's early days) is to allow the congregation their opportunity to be heard. There is a distinct desire in the church to have it appear 'democratic', when it's really just a token gesture ("All who approve say 'aye'" to confirm member positions; in my 15 years no dissenters). While it is uncommon to see someone comment politically, it's a perfectly valid platform for addressing his concerns to his fellow congregants. He was respectful and spoke of his personal feelings towards the actions of the church as an organization.

That said, the bishop for the congregation is 'elected' on a volunteer basis, and it's an unpaid position. The church documents on their responsibilities are pretty bland, and essentially are concerned chiefly with getting tithing and making sure the money is accounted for. It's entirely possible the bishop is just a douche and non-representative, but that really comes down to where you church is. Mormon churches in California are a whole different animal than churches in Utah, and I'm sure that's true elsewhere.

The best I can surmise it, the altruism and goodwill of church members as more to do with the local community and individuals than the actual church itself. The church only provides a venue and a general structure. My impression of the church after leaving was that it would be great if it wasn't for all the mystical Jesus/Joseph Smith nonsense. But alas, that's the one crazy thread that binds it all together.

Someday I'm going to write a long treatise here about why this song and this story have very little to do with god's grace and being connected through JC. This is about awe and gratitude. Christians believe there is some force that is doling out goodwill and that we are unwitting and undeserving of this goodwill, unless we respond in a Christian way. This notion is predicated on the experience of the very emotion evoked by this video. It is endemic to the human being and is inescapable. This emotion, this psycho-physiological state, is what we often use the word "gratitude" to describe. Some might say that this gratitude necessitates a recipient, and while that's semantically and somewhat intellectually satisfying, it just isn't true. We don't need to look any further when we feel this feeling. It comes, we are struck and elated, and it passes. The story of the scale and slow reveal (see schtick above) sets up a feeling of wonder--the way the scale comes back around and unites master and slave is profound. Finally, the booming paean pulls the listener into that state of gratitude; we feel privileged to have the ears to hear it and the mind to understand the unified experience. The result echoes in the archway where awe meets gratitude. I entreat you to open yourself, try to let this song and story past the filter that syphons out believer nonsense. I hope you will be rewarded.

*promote

(I guess that was a pretty long treatise)