>> ^BansheeX:
>> ^jwray:
Free markets can coexist with progressive income tax and government services. Libertarians tend to conflate economic liberty with flatter systems of taxation and a lack of needful public services like healthcare.

We need more socialized medicine like we need a hole in the head. The model you're suggesting is forced appropriation to create a national credit card of sorts that works until the country can no longer repay its debts in real terms (or more accurately, until its creditors realize this to be the case and stop financing the country's debt and artificially low rates). We're far past the point of having domestic credit, this is the very late stages to depend on exponential foreign credit. Our desire for life-prolonging procedures is unlimited, but our productive capacity to finance it is not. That is why prices are so high and quality so poor in government models. If it's just a national credit card whose compounding interest we finance by continuously finding more foreign investment, what's stopping a servicer from charging as much as he can and when does the foreign credit being "invested" in that increasingly expensive, non-exportable service eventually tap out?
We're like Madoff with a printing press, every time a bond matures we print another one. Since we severed gold-backing in 1971 but retained reserve status, we just export paper promises in exchange for goods, and until now foreigners have snatched them up. This is the fundamental realization that separates libertarians from stupider parts of the population: benefiting in the short-term at some greater long-term expense is not a good trade-off. Eventually it gets to a point where you get so hooked on that lifestyle that the credit junky rejects the withdrawal symptoms come time to save rather than consume. So the government just tries to inflate away the debt and you get bubble after bubble until the bond market itself is a bubble. Because if bond interest is insufficiently compensatory for the devaluation of the currency it promises to pay, why the hell would you buy them? If the effect of devaluation is only hidden by the fact that foreigners are hoarding rather than spending them, that's circular logic to suggest that dollars aren't losing value so long as you never use them to bid up the prices of products.
People wonder how countries like the UK and the USA went from rich creditors and manufacturing powerhouses to leading debtors who run deficits to consume rather than increase exportable production. All in a relatively short period of time. This is precisely how we did it, and as much shared blame you can point on needless military adventures post WWII, a borrow and spend health care model can only lead to squalor.
Recently, a relative of mine had a few procedures done on medicare (the second procedure was begotten by an infection caused during the first one). The doctors sent a bunch of excess equipment to our house and we couldn't return it. Some of it was still in its packaging, and the steel thing that holds up the intravenous bags? Wouldn't take that back either. The cost of her hospital stay and multiple invasive procedures was $150,000. Her out of pocket was only $100. It would take me a decade to earn that much after taxes, it was put on the national charge card in one week. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is going to end badly. People like David Walker have tried to warn people and were ignored for years. People's ignorance and sense of entitlement is too great now to elect someone who will stop the currency crisis before it happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-NqdmEDq4
You may now continue hitting your neo-con pinata.


I'm not talking about letting the government write a blank check for ridiculously overpriced private healthcare services.

Government shouldn't spend a penny on private health services or private health insurance, or interfere with them at all. It should just set up its own separate clinics that offer basic services at low cost and subsidize preventative care. This could be done for a tiny fraction of the cost of the Iraq war. Sweden spends a lower percentage of its GDP on healthcare than the USA, yet has 3 years longer life expectancy and half the infant mortality. That's socialism for you!

>> ^jwray:
Free markets can coexist with progressive income tax and government services. Libertarians tend to conflate economic liberty with flatter systems of taxation and a lack of needful public services like healthcare.


We need more socialized medicine like we need a hole in the head. The model you're suggesting is forced appropriation to create a national credit card of sorts that works until the country can no longer repay its debts in real terms (or more accurately, until its creditors realize this to be the case and stop financing the country's debt and artificially low rates). We're far past the point of having domestic credit, this is the very late stages to depend on exponential foreign credit. Our desire for life-prolonging procedures is unlimited, but our productive capacity to finance it is not. That is why prices are so high and quality so poor in government models. If it's just a national credit card whose compounding interest we finance by continuously finding more foreign investment, what's stopping a servicer from charging as much as he can and when does the foreign credit being "invested" in that increasingly expensive, non-exportable service eventually tap out?

We're like Madoff with a printing press, every time a bond matures we print another one. Since we severed gold-backing in 1971 but retained reserve status, we just export paper promises in exchange for goods, and until now foreigners have snatched them up. This is the fundamental realization that separates libertarians from stupider parts of the population: benefiting in the short-term at some greater long-term expense is not a good trade-off. Eventually it gets to a point where you get so hooked on that lifestyle that the credit junky rejects the withdrawal symptoms come time to save rather than consume. So the government just tries to inflate away the debt and you get bubble after bubble until the bond market itself is a bubble. Because if bond interest is insufficiently compensatory for the devaluation of the currency it promises to pay, why the hell would you buy them? If the effect of devaluation is only hidden by the fact that foreigners are hoarding rather than spending them, that's circular logic to suggest that dollars aren't losing value so long as you never use them to bid up the prices of products.

People wonder how countries like the UK and the USA went from rich creditors and manufacturing powerhouses to leading debtors who run deficits to consume rather than increase exportable production. All in a relatively short period of time. This is precisely how we did it, and as much shared blame you can point on needless military adventures post WWII, a borrow and spend health care model can only lead to squalor.

Recently, a relative of mine had a few procedures done on medicare (the second procedure was begotten by an infection caused during the first one). The doctors sent a bunch of excess equipment to our house and we couldn't return it. Some of it was still in its packaging, and the steel thing that holds up the intravenous bags? Wouldn't take that back either. The cost of her hospital stay and multiple invasive procedures was $150,000. Her out of pocket was only $100. It would take me a decade to earn that much after taxes, it was put on the national charge card in one week. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is going to end badly. People like David Walker have tried to warn people and were ignored for years. People's ignorance and sense of entitlement is too great now to elect someone who will stop the currency crisis before it happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-NqdmEDq4

You may now continue hitting your neo-con pinata.

Tags for this video have been changed from '56, trillion, dollar, bailout, controller, general, bill, maher' to '56, trillion, dollar, bailout, controller, general, bill, maher, david walker' - edited by Grimm

i recommend this shorter version of David Walker's message to the american people, it will tell you pretty much everything the longer version tries very hard to but kinda fails on account of being boring as hell

Update: David Walker resigned his post on Feb 15th, 2008 (source).

quantumushroom: watch http://www.videosift.com/video/A-wake-up-call-from-the-US-Government-Accountability-Office

This clip was produced by David Walker, US Comptroller General (a position most people don't even know exists), head of the US Government Accountability Office. He has an outstanding professional record, and honorary doctorates from several universities. Here's his Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Walker_(U.S._Comptroller_General)

He has given multiple interviews explaining how the US is bankrupt, and how agencies and politicians neglect to mention this fact. International bankers are also aware of this, and a lot of people outside the US don't doubt this fact, but Americans typically acquire a very distorted picture of how their economy actually runs.

Unless there's a radical policy change like the one Ron Paul advocates, it's a matter of time until the US economy collapses. It may take a month, a year or even more. The longer it takes, the worse the crash will be. It won't be a correction or a mild recession. It will be the crash that destroys American purchasing power as we know it.

I agree with you that people don't tolerate rapid change. Most don't understand what's at stake, and also want submit to a welfare state. Ron Paul understands this, and for the last 30 years he's worked to educate people and talk about this message of financial discipline, civil liberties and upholding the constitution. He was reluctant to run again for president, because he was afraid that the nation wasn't ready.

Ron Paul's supporters are fervorous because they're desperately trying to change the United States' course before it's too late. I applaud their efforts, and I hope they succeed to get him elected. But even if they don't, they will have educated millions of people in the process, and this gives me hope that Americans will be able to pull themselves up from financial disaster, and resist the fascist ideologies that will undoubtly flourish.